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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: genesearch1 on Friday 21 October 11 02:36 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know this George Ransford in the UNION OF MONKSTOWN,DUBLIN,IRELAND Date 1778 ??
The Date gleaned from www.familysearch.org relates to the Christening of his daughter Elizabeth
on the 3 May 1778 !
I found the information below from familysearch.org.
Also Can anyone tell me where I can get the records for the 'UNION OF MONKSTOWN,DUBLIN,IRELAND' ??
Also and more to the point if this George Ransford had any more children ?
If so any help would be appreciated.
Kind Regards
Genesearch
See Results Below of this George Ransford and the christening of his daughter in 1778.
Elizth. Ransford
christening: 3 May 1778 UNION OF MONKSTOWN,DUBLIN,IRELAND
parents: George Ransford & Elizth.
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Try this link...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,312871.0.html
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Hi Lindajane,
I will try and get a copy of that book by Seymore Guinness.
I thought I might have to check local Parish's but it seems to be just the book written that it refers to.
Then again I might be wrong.
The guy who posted the link you referred me to has since passed away.
So that link is gone !!
Any other help would be appreciated.
Thanks for replying with this.
Kind Regards
Genesearch
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Based on the preface to this publication, the term 'The Union of Monkstown' seems to refer to a combined collection of records for the Church of Ireland parishes of Monkstown, Kill o' the Grange, Dalkey, Killiney, Tully, Stillorgan and Kilmacud.
Transcripts of records for some of these parishes are available on the pay-website of www.rootsireland.ie. In addition to those included on the FamilySearch website, the records for some of these parishes are also available in the Representative Church Body Library in Dublin. Some of the details included in the publication are from primary records that no longer exist.
The register of the Union of Monkstown (Co. Dublin), 1669-1786
(continued to the year 1800 from parochial returns). Ed. by Henry Seymour Guinness. Published 1908
quote :
'In 1670, when the register opens, the Union included the parishes of Monkstown, Kill o' the Grange, Dalkey, Killiney, Tully, Stillorgan and Kilmacud ... As population increased, many of the included parishes dropped away ... nevertheless, up to the year 1800, when the present volume closes, Monkstown was still the principal centre of registration for the district'
Shane
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Hi Shane,
Thank you for clarifying this for me.
I have been to the Representative Church Body RCB in Churchtown D14.
I will go there again soon and see what information they have in relation to these records.
Another location that comes up, and one I posted under Edward Rainsford in 1770's was St Mary's and St Peter's Church.
This location is off Wexford St or more to the point, the Cemetary behind Kevin St College close to St Stephens Green in Dublin.
In that Post I found that Edward Rainsford is buried, who I believe though I'm not certain is Sir Mark Rainsford's the Lord Mayor of Dublin 1701's, eldest Son !
Perhaps this Church has records also. Although I image they are Protestant or Church of Ireland Records held there !!
I will go to both places and see if I can find any information in relation to all this.
Thank your for replying.
Kind Regards
Genesearch.
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Hi Shane
I also found this online which has many names on it.
I did find a 'Ransford' which is the spelling , spelt from Ink Pen which because it blends the i with the n
the I is sometimes missing from the name.
This might be of help !! I'm find it difficult to read from it.
However some experienced genealogist might find it more revealing.
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/dublin-st-peter-parish/the-register-of-the-parish-of-st-peter-and-s-kevin-dublin-1669-1761-lbu/page-49-the-register-of-the-parish-of-st-peter-and-s-kevin-dublin-1669-1761-lbu.shtml
Kind Regards
Genesearch
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Hi Shane,
This Book compiled just last year in 2010, has some interesting information.
Read the Preface below - it says St Kevins Church , ( back of Kevin St College today )
extended out to Milltown etc.
Quote Below + Followed by the link.
*******************************
"The parish of S. Kevin was of much greater importance. Its
church stood (where a modern successor may still be seen, between
Camden Row and S. Ke\'in Street) in tlie ancient Iris'n city of
Dublin, but outside the line which marked the jurisdiction of the
mediaeval city authorities, and on the ground of the Archbishop's
powerful palatinate. Its parochial area extended to the Dodder
from its mouth to above Milltown, excepting the small area about
Donnybrook. These lands included the Archbishop's manor of
Cullen, containing the modern suburban districts of Rathmines,
Harold's Cross, Cullenswood, Ranelagh, and Milltown. The
valuable tithes of this important parish were given by Archbishop
Comyn to his enlarged collegiate church of S. Patrick, for its
Oeconomy fund. The vicarage continued in the gift of the Arch-
bishop, and was usually conferred on his vicar choral in S. Patrick's
cathedral. In 1306 the rectorial tithes were valued at £10, and the
vicarage at half as much more. "
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/dublin-st-peter-parish/the-register-of-the-parish-of-st-peter-and-s-kevin-dublin-1669-1761-lbu/1-the-register-of-the-parish-of-st-peter-and-s-kevin-dublin-1669-1761-lbu.shtml
I hope this is useful to others also in their searches !
Kind Regards
Genesearch
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The RCB Library might have a copy of that Monkstown publication by Henry Seymour Guinness, if not I'd say the National Library would be a worth a try
I will keep keep an eye out for any copies..
Shane
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The NUI in Maynooth definitely have a copy
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Here is a grave inscriptions from the Church of Ireland Cemetery in
Hacketstown. May not be at all relevant, but just in case....
This tomb was erected by George Ransford in memory of his wife Martha
RANSFORD who departed this life January 1806 aged 40 years.
Erected by George and William RANSFORD of Kiltegan in memory of their mother
Mary RANSFORD who departed this life July the 17th 1753 aged 52 years. Also
John RANSFORD who departed this life August 28th 1753 aged 18 years. Also
his father John RANSFORD departed January 13th 1796 aged 74 years. Also the
above named William RANSFORD departed August the 9th 1801. Also the body of
two children and his wife Elizabeth RANSFORD. Also John RANSFORD who departed
this life June 10th 1804 aged 69 years.
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Hi there,
Superb information !!
I have already rang Hacketstown and nearby Parishes but they gave me the usual
"All records burned in 1922" line.
Or that the records for those Parishes go back to 1821 or at most 1803 etc etc give or take a few years.
The main aim is to try and find some connection to this George Rainsford to the one in Castlecomer.
Assuming there is one ! There could be but there may not be.
Maybe this line of research will give me some clues if this Kiltegan
George Rainsford had a son called George Rainsford.
Thats the only way to find the link now as George name is passed down from father to son in my line
over the years.
However its a SUPERB link to work off and gives so much information !!!
Thanks again.
Genesearch
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According to 'Ryan's Irish Records' a copy of the records for the CofI parish of Hacketstown baptism, marriage and death records back to 1799 is held held locally... I dont see any other source that confirms this.
Based on the recent handlist, the copies in the RCBL only go back to 1877 for baptisms, death/burials to 1878, and marriages back to the start of civil records in 1845. It's looks like transcripts of the RCBL records are available on www.irishgenealogy.ie
Shane
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I actually found another George Rainsford who baptised in 1773
His parents were Robert Rainsford and Bridget.
See attachment.
This is RC - Roman Catholic in the St Nicholas Parish in Dublin.
There are quiet a few leads.
However it's getting these leads and trying to establish a link to my ancestor in Castlecomer !!
For instance if this George Rainsford born 7 Feb 1773 is my ancestor who married in Castlecomer in 8 Feb 1814, he would be 41 when he married.
That sounds plausible !!
Still trying to get a connection is hard.
As the Kiltegan Wicklow had a George Rainsford too , just it has to be a son born in 1770's or 1780's or so that would make it more reasonable to say he married in 30's or 40's'. Then again could be OLDER or YOUNGER.
There seems to be lots of George Rainsford's at this time. That makes the search refreshing on one hand but daunting on the other.
Still no direct link as yet.
I will still keep at it, and maybe try and find more about this George Rainsford in St Nicholas Dublin.
I feel that i'm nearly there !!
Kind Regards
Genesearch.
see : Baptism of George Rainsford - 7 February 1773 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/9468220271762)
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Who did your ancestor marry in Castlecomber, what denomination was the church,and how do you know he is your ancestor? - ie do you have named BMD's for his children, grandchildren etc?
PM
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Hi Pastmagic,
I know he is my ancestor as I have the actual marriage record from the National Library in Kildare St Dublin
All my ancestors come from Castlecomer , in Kilkenny Ireland.
On this Marriage Record it stated Muckalee a Parish within Castlecomer in 1814
He married Elizabeth Price . It was a RC or Roman Catholic Wedding.
His son William was my Great Grandfather.
Then I got Elizabeth Rainsford ( maiden name Price ) Death Cert from 1874 in the GRO in Dublin.
On it it says William Rainsford was there when she passed away.
Furthermore I got the Griffith Records of 1849, which placed my Great Great Grandfather in Glenmagoo , Castlecomer Kilkenny.
So he is my Direct Ancestor.
However I contacted Rothe House in Kilkenny and they have NO records of his birth there.
So he moved from somewhere to Castlecomer . That is what i'm trying to find out now.
Kind Regards
Genesearch.
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....
On this Marriage Record it stated Muckalee a Parish within Castlecomer in 1814
....
However I contacted Rothe House in Kilkenny and they have NO records of his birth there.
So he moved from somewhere to Castlecomer . That is what i'm trying to find out now.
....
RC baptism record for the parish of Castlecomer dont go back far enough to include a baptism in the 1770s, so he could have been baptised in the area.
(they only include baptisms back to 1814)
Mucklee parish is just south of the one for Castlecomer and has RC baptism records back to 1801,
Shane
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Hi Shane,
thanks for that also.
However I did contact Rothe House in Killkenny and the genealogist there said that there was no Death Record for George Rainsford found either.
However there was one for Elizabeth.
They said it was possible he was buried back where he was born.
For instance my Uncle was buried back in Castlecomer, despite living in Dublin most his life and then he died in Dublin.
I tend to believe this too !!
I am currently awaiting results on Elizabeth Price my GG Grandmother.
I have requested a Genealogist to do some research on her in Rothe House Kilkenny also.
I know she died aged 80, in 1874 , which would make her roughly born in 1794 or thereabouts.
Also from the same Griffith Census of 1849 for Castlecomer, I found a Samuel Price living on the same area of Glenmagoo Upper Fiorda Kilkenny.
Perhaps if they find some information on her, I can glean some more information about my GG GF George.
Thanks very much again for you help on this.
Kind Regards
Genesearch.
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You have quite a difficult job here. I agree with Shane that he could quite easily been born in the area and no record has survived. I would start as locally as possible, but I do see your difficulty! I noted that you had an Edmund Ryan witness to the Marriage in your earlier thread.
Have you seen the marriage in 1819 on familysearch: (old version)
GI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
ANN RANSFORD
Spouse: JAMES RYAN Family
Marriage:
10 AUG 1819 Toem, Tipperary, Ireland
This Ann would have been of an age to be a sibling of George. Maybe worth keeping to one side, if the Ryan connection comes into play.
This account also locates some Ranfords in Tipp:
Nov. 5, 1844
On Wednesday, as a man named John Ransford, was proceeding from Bird-hill
towards Ballynahinch, he was met by a party of armed men who attacked him.
He escaped and ran to the house of a relative Edmond Ransford who informed
the police at the Muragh station, about a mile and a half distant. Sergeant
Goore and a party of police pursued the ruffians who fled in the direction
of O'Brien's bridge. He succeeded in arresting three men, named Martin
Tracy, James Tracy and Hill. The cause assigned for the attack is a spirit
of revenge, instigated by Ransford having taken some land from which the
Tracy's had been evicted. TIPPERARY VINDICATOR.
Just a snippet to keep to one side.
I looked at the Griffits valuations on askaboutireland - there are two entries for George Rainsford in Castlecomber
1 House and lands c. 3 acres Glenmagoo or Fiorda
I house Office and lands c. 18 acres Castlecomber part of. Just wondering if these two are George Married to Elizabeth Price and a possible father, or George and a son. Or one George involved.
The landlord in both cases is Issac Bradley.
I then had a look at the registry of deeds project:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~registryofdeeds/by_name/name221.htm
No George, but lots of other docs.
So realy a dead end, unless you want to spend a day working throuh these Rensford docs to see if you can glean anything. Which you may have done already.
Best of luck with your search,
PM
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Hi Pastmagic,
That's incredible amount of information. Thank you so much !!
It got me thinking about Anne Rainsford, and yes it's VERY possible that George had a sister.
This is invaluable for me now, because I can also try and work off Anne Rainsford now.
Usually I do a 'Google Maps' to find the distance between the 2 areas.
This distance is 92KM so about 52 miles SW of Castlecomer.
I have been working with a guy last few weeks who has researched his ancestry back to Martin Rainsford,
a Gunsmith from Butterhill in Wicklow.
Butterhill is right across the lake from Blessington about a 10 minute walk.
That Martin Rainsford goes back to 1733. Gordan my friend is a Direct Descendant.
So between us we concluded that my Line may well have traveled from Dublin to Wicklow to Castlecomer.
Castlecomer is about 30 miles SW of Butterhill and also Portarlington.
Portarlington is significant because many Rainsford's lived there also.
So the DISTANCE is less for these areas than it is for Tipperary.
This gives me the impression that my line of Rainsford's move from Dublin = Kildare = Wicklow = Castlecomer.
The reason I believe this is because back in the late 1700s, coaches and horses were the means of Transport and getting around would have been restricted. Therefore the 30 miles distance between
Castlecomer to Portarlington or 30 miles from Portarlington to Butterhill or Kildare seems more plausible.
Then again I could be very wrong !!
2 - Regards the 3 acres of land . I did not know how big the land was. So thank you for that.
It looks like George and Elizabeth lived in Glemagoo for a long time. From 1814 - 1860 at least.
It looks like it was just George and Elizabeth and of course all the children. I know 2 - William and younger brother James. However there could have been on older brother George a first born.
I i'm thinking this firstborn George was married in Ballylennon Carlow. I'm not certain though. Just hunches.
as I found a marriage record for George Rainsford marrying Anne Thornton in 1850.
On that marriage it had George Rainsford as the father also.
However that was in Ballylennon Carlow. approx 18 miles from Castlecomer.
I think this could well have been my GG GF George's first born son.
See here
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/493a1d0024942
His next son William was my Great Grandfather and he married in 1866 in Castlecomer to Bridget Keefe.
I did know about Isaac Bradley being the landlord, so they did not own the land.
However I still await a search on Elizabeth Rainsford which I hope I will get next week sometime.
Maybe this will shed light on if she got land, or even if George had acquired land, from someone who will provide a link for me.
3 - I have seen those Deeds. I found a George Rainsford but he was in Fermanagh. I add attachment here.
That was in the year 1772 .
Throughout all those documents that was all that I found was ONE relating to Rainsford or variant spellings i.e Ransford etc.
However even though its the right year, it would mean this George Rainsford would have to have a son also called George. Then he would have to move perhaps to Castlecomer ??? Confusing.
4 - So where will I look now ??
Well The good lead I have right now is in relation to the birth of a George Rainsford in Dublin in St Nicholas Church RC in Dublin 8 area.
See earlier Post on this there is a LINK to that page !
I will search this parish to find if they have any other information. For instance I know already that this George Rainsford's parents were Robert and Bridget in 1773.
IMPORTANT NOTE - Most Rainsford's in Ireland switched from Protestant to Catholic in late 1700's.
*****************************************************************************
Also remember that most the Rainsfords were Protestant up til about 1760s- 1790's where most if not all had converted to Catholicism.
The late 1700's in Ireland saw lots of Catholic societies grow leading up to the 1798 Rebellion.
All the years preceding this, were fired by the 1770s Revolution in the USA and the 1789 French Revolution.
Ireland was next to follow suit. So Political change especially Religious change from Protestant to Catholics were happening. Ireland was 70% Catholic in 1700, and 85% by 1829 and in Daniel O'Connell time.
The Point being that my GG Grandfather George could well have been born Protestant and converted to Catholic when he married Elizabeth Price.
That is why I do research in Church of Ireland and the RCB in Churchtown D18.
My friend Gordan told me that although the RC Church Records do not exist before 1814 in some of these areas, it is still possible to find them in Church of Ireland Records. Namely given our Switch in Religion close to the time Catholic Records were begining to be kept again.
Again thank you so much for your effort on this. It is totally unexpected !!
Kind Regards
Martin Rainsford.
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Few gunsmith refs on line - there was also possible Dublin Gunsmith
Cased pair of percussion duelling pistols, converted from flintlock, cal. 20 bore (.610 in.). Made by Michael Ransford, Dublin, circa 1750.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0g6i/
A few Freeman's Journal refs you probably already have:
Mr. George Ransford Victualler of 13 Chatham Street, in list of subscribers to the United Board of Manafactures on Saturday gave Two Shillings and sixpence, November 29, 185I a Diony Ransford also of Chatham St (no number) gave 5 Shillings.
A Mr Rasnsford 13 Chatham St subscribes again on Friday, January 9, 1852
Two shillings an sixpence again on Friday, April 30, 1852
I admire your persistance!
PM
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Hi Pastmagic
Blimey - that is EXCELLENT !!
The Pistols are correct. As my friend Gordan ,( whose ancestor IS Gunsmith Martin Rainsford from Butterhill Wicklow 1733 ) has told me about these pistols and that Martin Rainsford had a son called Michael Rainsford who kept on his fathers Gunsmith works.
What you found seems totally accurate !!
Also I think that George Rainsford in 1851 could be my Great Granduncle , my Great Grandfather William's older brother.
I found from the wedding cert, his father was George Rainsford and he was a Victualler - Butcher .
That information is amazing, and thank you so much for keeping me in mind and finding incredible stuff.
Hopefully next week I will get feedback from the Genealogist in Rothe House Kilkenny about Elizabeth Price.
Her parents and her assocation with land in Glenmagoo.
What I'm doing now !
********************
Today I emailed the St Nicholas Church parish guy in Francis St Dublin 8
As this area and Parish have a few Rainsford's that I found over the last week or so.
1 - My lead is this - Robert and Bridget Rainsford had a son called George Rainsford in 7 Feb 1773.
So hopefully the parish guy here might have information about them.
Remember I need a George Rainsford Birth and Location and he must be born in late 1770's or 1780s
As this would make him 35 - 45 at time of his marriage in 8 Feb 1814.
As time goes on I will tweak these years +- 5 years or so.
2 - A Anna was a sponser - So I looked up Anne Rainsford for St Nicholas Parish and I found on the Griffith Census an Ann Rainsford living in Dean St Dublin 8. Right across from St Patricks Cathedral there.
That Census was in 1847 - 1850
However in 1730 in St Nicholas Parish D8, I found another Anne Rainsford
see attachment - from St Nicholas Church Dublin 8.
I also found a Richard Rainsford on the same Griffith Census living in Ushers Island, right next to the Dublin Quays and about 1.7 KM ( according to Google Maps ) or 20 min walk to Francis St and Dean St D8.
This Richard Rainsford was in St Aodoens Parish in D8
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/dublin/staudoens.htm
And Believe it or not I found a Solider called George Rainsford buried there in 11 Nov 1705.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/2585d60254533
Perhaps the Richard Rainsford who married Ann Rainsford and had a son Henry born in 1730, in St Nicholas Church was this George Rainsford's son as its in the same area of Dublin 8.
Also as in 1705 George Rainsford soldier buried in St Aodeons in Nov 1705.
The same area could there be a connection here !! Seems very plausible.
The reason I'm doing it this way, is that by kind of knowing various Rainsford's around 1700's
if I do get good feedback soon on Rothe House on Elizabeth Price I can somehow find a way to link it all together.
You gave me an Ann Rainsford marriage from 1819 in Toem Tipperary and I will get to work on that, to see if MY GG GF George Rainsford had any sisters or even brother.
That was an excellent tip !!
I'm going to follow first my thinking on the route and distance travelled by my ancestors.
I'm thinking - Dublin - Kildare - Wicklow - Castlecomer.
So its Dublin for this week and that parish RC St Nicholas Church, Francis St D 8.
I will definitely let you know how I get on on both Kilkenny Rothe House and St Nicholas Parish Searched.
Again Thank you so much for your help.
Very much appreciated for your time and efforts with helping me.
Kind Regards
Genesearch
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Hi Pastmagic
I actually found Micheal Ransford dueling Pistols from 1750 online.
The are located in Victoria Museum in Australia.
http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/items/372954/case-pair-of-pistols-michael-ransford-dublin-percussion-circa-1750
I sent them to my friend who is a Direct Descendant and he is delighted.
kind regards
genesearch.
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Nice Find! PM
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Few gunsmith refs on line - there was also possible Dublin Gunsmith
Cased pair of percussion duelling pistols, converted from flintlock, cal. 20 bore (.610 in.). Made by Michael Ransford, Dublin, circa 1750.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0g6i/
A few Freeman's Journal refs you probably already have:
Mr. George Ransford Victualler of 13 Chatham Street, in list of subscribers to the United Board of Manafactures on Saturday gave Two Shillings and sixpence, November 29, 185I a Diony Ransford also of Chatham St (no number) gave 5 Shillings.
A Mr Rasnsford 13 Chatham St subscribes again on Friday, January 9, 1852
Two shillings an sixpence again on Friday, April 30, 1852
I admire your persistance!
PM
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Few gunsmith refs on line - there was also possible Dublin Gunsmith
Cased pair of percussion duelling pistols, converted from flintlock, cal. 20 bore (.610 in.). Made by Michael Ransford, Dublin, circa 1750.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0g6i/
A few Freeman's Journal refs you probably already have:
Mr. George Ransford Victualler of 13 Chatham Street, in list of subscribers to the United Board of Manafactures on Saturday gave Two Shillings and sixpence, November 29, 185I a Diony Ransford also of Chatham St (no number) gave 5 Shillings.
A Mr Rasnsford 13 Chatham St subscribes again on Friday, January 9, 1852
Two shillings an sixpence again on Friday, April 30, 1852
I admire your persistance!
PM
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:DHi, I have good news for you, your search ends here, I have final piece of jig-saw for you. Please feel free to contact me * I was reared on that field and know where the ruins of that house were. Happy days.
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to protect against spamming and other abuses. Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hello all,
I am hoping this post is still active and someone sees this.
My great x4 granny was Catherine Rainsford who married my great x4 grandad, Thomas Purcell, in Castlecomer in 1841.
I've found births for two children. Michael Purcell was born in 1842 and he was a witness at the wedding of William Rainsford (son of George Rainsford and Elizabeth 'Betty' Price) to Bridget Keefe in 1866.
Mary Purcell, my great x3 granny, was born in 1844 and William and Bridget Rainsford were sponsors to her daughter, Eliza Curran, in 1869.
Their mother, Catherine Rainsford, was born in approximately 1818 according to her age at the time she died while William Rainsford's parents, George and Betty, married in 1814.
I'm thinking that because George married four years before Catherine's birth, he is either her father or a much older brother from a large family. I have seen families having children 20+ years apart if the parents married young.
Does anyone have any information that could suggest a link between my Rainsford ancestor and George and his son William?
All I know is they certainly knew each other and are most likely related in some way due to the shared surname.
There are DNA connections to a Rainsford from Murroe, Limerick but nothing particularly useful has shown up in records unfortunately.
I hope someone can help.
Kind regards
Colleen