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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Wiggy on Wednesday 19 October 11 06:23 BST (UK)

Title: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 19 October 11 06:23 BST (UK)
Hello,

Although this photo shows as very poor resolution, it seems to enlarge quite well.

Please would someone who knows about motor bikes give me some indication of the age of this one -
Trying to work out who it might be.  Their Clothes might even help!   ;) ;) ;)

If anyone feels inclined to cheer it up that would be much appreciated - no colour please.   ;)

Sorry if it seems compressed - I had to reduce the size to post it!
Wiggy    :)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 19 October 11 07:37 BST (UK)
No idea, but it's a fabuolous photo. I saw the house and immediately thought "Australia". I will take a stab at 1915ish. No idea about the date of the bike, but I love it.  :)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 19 October 11 08:01 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D   not to mention the gum tree!   ;D.

It is a good one isn't it!    Not quite straight - but then so many aren't!!   They aren't going far - the stand is still down on the bike!

Wiggy   ;)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: HeatherLynne on Wednesday 19 October 11 08:18 BST (UK)
Good job the stand is down, they're sitting so far back it looks as if they'd be doing wheelies all the time!  Can you see the full registration number on the original photo?  It might be worth putting a link to this thread on the Deciphering and Recognition thread, doubtless one of our bike experts would be able to identify it.

Heather
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 19 October 11 11:02 BST (UK)
Hi Wiggy :)

Just prior to or very early WW1 I suspect, with what the young lady is wearing...I didn't notice the stand was down, and was wondering how they managed to stay put while sitting that far back  ;D

What a great photo!

Cheers
Prue
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 19 October 11 11:03 BST (UK)
P.S.  What state would this have been taken in, do you think? Might be able to at least get a year for the rego, which is just three numbers...
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 19 October 11 12:05 BST (UK)
Loathe as I am to disagree with Prue I think this is a bit later at late WW1 or just after.

jim
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 19 October 11 12:13 BST (UK)
;D ;D   not to mention the gum tree!   ;D.


Is it?  :-\ I've never seen one with bark quite like that and so low branching before. But the leaves do look 'gum like'.

I just noticed the barbed wire atop the fence.  :)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: maidmarianoops on Wednesday 19 October 11 12:22 BST (UK)
a try


sylvia
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Garrod on Wednesday 19 October 11 12:36 BST (UK)
The registration plate on the original picture appears to be 139, there is possibly another number or letter prior to this.
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: TomRees on Wednesday 19 October 11 12:38 BST (UK)
Quite unusual front suspension, or I would have considered an early Indian or even Harley given the engine being a Vee twin config ( but then again its belt, not chain driven final drive, and the exhaust fabrication is quaint.)

Number plate is 139.

There are two letters on the crankcase (under riders foot) maybe H B.

No insignia on the fuel tank is visible.
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 19 October 11 12:40 BST (UK)
hey folks - they are sitting that far back because that's where the seat it!!!   ;D ;D  I think!  I can't see one in front of them - though I do agree with Heather - they could be about to do a wonderful Wheelie!

It will be in Tasmania, Prue.   Good idea - I'll ask Tas Archives - thank you!   :)

Yep, Ruskie - plenty of Gums have bark like that near the bottom of the trunk!     ;D

Thanks Sylvia!!

Wiggy   :)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 19 October 11 12:43 BST (UK)
Ruskie - the trunk also looks like a willow doesn't it - bet its a Euc. though!


Thanks Tom - I'd not noticed the letters under the rider's foot until you pointed them out!

Wiggy   ;)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: TomRees on Wednesday 19 October 11 12:46 BST (UK)
The Vee configuration is a very accute angle, much like a 1920 Matchless Silver Arrow, but sadly too much differs.

There are only 3 digits on the plate, it only starts before the '1' - the fence post can clearly be seen between it and the headstock.
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 19 October 11 12:48 BST (UK)
You are very observant Tom!  Thanks for that!    Sounds as if you are bit 'bike happy' too - correct?  (That's Aussie for you really really like and know about bikes!)

Wiggy   :)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: TomRees on Wednesday 19 October 11 12:58 BST (UK)
 ;) used to dabble.

Actually wondering if that might be a short-lived bike from a range made in OZ (using bought in components, but adding some personalisation?) - not aware of any real manufacturing there though....
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 19 October 11 20:43 BST (UK)
Jim, I bow to your superior knowledge  ;D 

Definitely a eucalypt.  Not sure about Tassie, but round here (Canberra region) the yellow box has similar bark, and where I grew up (SEQld) ironbarks did too (although they generally had a single tall trunk rather than the spreading base of this one).
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 19 October 11 23:52 BST (UK)
I'm in Brisbane Prue and am familiar with ironbarks but I've never seen the trunk of one branch so low. Maybe this one is a special Tassie tree - and we know they have (or used to have  :'() many special trees in Tassie.  ;)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Thursday 20 October 11 00:09 BST (UK)
Definitely not an Ironbark - but I think Prue was just saying that it is similar to ironbark bark - if you see what I mean.   Even some of the trees which have smooth white bark in the branches have bark like this at the base!    I'm not skilled enough in Euc. identification to know what it could be!  I'll do a hunt now, 'cos you have me interested! -  pretty hopeless though with out the flowers fruit and leaves.
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 20 October 11 00:20 BST (UK)
Yes, I think you're right about Prue's meaning (I misunderstood  ;)). I know what you're saying about the rough base of gum trees, but it usually doesn't go that far up the tree. It's a bea-u-tiful tree whatever it is.
Do you know where your lovely newly found photos were taken, and what it's like in the area today?
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 20 October 11 00:26 BST (UK)
Knowing the area may help ID the tree .... there are loads of different species.  :)

I wonder if it's a blue gum?  :-\
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: youngtug on Thursday 20 October 11 00:45 BST (UK)
The petrol tank looks to be cylindrical. BSA made a round tank bike [1920s] nothing else looks like BSA though
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Thursday 20 October 11 02:45 BST (UK)
Yes, I think you're right about Prue's meaning (I misunderstood  ;)). I know what you're saying about the rough base of gum trees, but it usually doesn't go that far up the tree. It's a bea-u-tiful tree whatever it is.
Do you know where your lovely newly found photos were taken, and what it's like in the area today?

Most likely the Fingal Valley in Tasmania - still very rural but obviously more people living around the place in the towns - definitely not crowded though!  Beautiful valley - wouldn't mind living there really!

Re the tree - most Eucs, if damaged/cut low on the trunk will 'coppice and grow from several places - if left they will form several strong trunks-  reckon that may have happened, don't you?
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Thursday 20 October 11 02:49 BST (UK)
YT - I don't know anything about bikes - so whatever people tell me about them - - - - - well, I won't have an answer!

I presume some clever clogs could have managed to make the odd bike in Australia - we're an innovative lot   ;)

- or it may a bog standard wonderful machine fully imported.   :D.  This family had enough money to do just that - (not our side, which seemed to find itself in the bankruptcy court more times than is comfortable!  There are some good stories being uncovered!!  ;) ;))

Wiggy 
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: tedscout on Thursday 20 October 11 03:02 BST (UK)
Is it a Flying Merkel circa 1911

http://www.theflyingmerkel.com/site/ORIGINAL%20PHOTOS,41.html
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Thursday 20 October 11 03:56 BST (UK)
Certainly similar - but too many differences to my way of thinking - shape of fuel tank, how the engine is sitting , handlebars etc etc - but the ballpark is round about right - I think this one is later though!   No writing on the fuel tank either!

Good find though Tedscout.   ;) 

Wiggy
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 20 October 11 07:43 BST (UK)
Yes, I think you're right about Prue's meaning (I misunderstood  ;)). I know what you're saying about the rough base of gum trees, but it usually doesn't go that far up the tree. It's a bea-u-tiful tree whatever it is.
Do you know where your lovely newly found photos were taken, and what it's like in the area today?

Most likely the Fingal Valley in Tasmania - still very rural but obviously more people living around the place in the towns - definitely not crowded though!  Beautiful valley - wouldn't mind living there really!

Re the tree - most Eucs, if damaged/cut low on the trunk will 'coppice and grow from several places - if left they will form several strong trunks-  reckon that may have happened, don't you?


It looks like beautiful country, and being Tassie, a nice climate.

You could be right about the tree having been coppiced - maybe they built the house with the timber.  ;)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: aginger on Thursday 20 October 11 09:48 BST (UK)
Oil lamp is an early example, the front forks are a swinging arm style, known as "Earles Forks style nowadays"a rear link type,and the engine appears to be equipped with "automatic" inlet valves which opened "using very light springs to hold them sealed" when the piston descended causing suction in the inlet duct to deliver petrol/air mixture into the cylinder head, the exhaust valves are mechanically opened  by the pushrod shown in photo which leaves me to believe the bike may be German in origin.
I have a Steyr Daimler Puch motorcycle with similar fork arrangement,so by sendiing your photo to the Vintage Motorcycle Club in the UK i,m sure would get you the date and model.
Allen. 
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Thursday 20 October 11 11:04 BST (UK)
Thanks Allen.

I'll see if they have a web address!   Done!   

Will also find Tasmanian Registration board and query them about it!

Anyhow, it seems I have an approximate date to towards the end of the  first war.   

Wiggy   :)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: maidmarianoops on Friday 21 October 11 15:11 BST (UK)
you may enjoy this


sylvia


http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=483757&page=352
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: japeflakes on Friday 21 October 11 16:19 BST (UK)
 By about 1912, as engine output climbed, even those motorcycle manufacturers which had been using belts switched to chains, or-in a few cases-to shaft drive.
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: aginger on Saturday 22 October 11 18:03 BST (UK)
Wiggy, just found a 1905 bike with similar front fork profile which looks similar to those in your photo,it is on WWW.vinandvet.co.uk/archive,  I knew I had seen this style somewhere.
Peugeot V Twin 1905 is pictured,made in France,although the fuel tank is oblong  on this photo,the companies were developing new ideas and designs regularly in those days.
The forks may be a proprietry make and be fitted to many early motorcycles in Europe,here in England many companies only made the frame,then built the machine with bought in parts,and ,called if a so and so.
Allen.
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: aginger on Sunday 23 October 11 09:05 BST (UK)
Wiggy, some more!! the front fork was invented by Mons, J M M Truffault a Frenchman,and is known as the first shock absorber.. Biachi,Vindec,fitted same forks, an American Edward Hartford became involved in 1899 as well with Truffault, and possibly used same design on US motorcycles.
So it could be an early American built bike,circa 1905 to 1910.
Allen.
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Sunday 23 October 11 09:09 BST (UK)
Thanks Allen,

Thank url didn't work for me - never mind - I can look up images by the other hints you've given - thanks very much!   ;)
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Hibee on Sunday 23 October 11 09:48 BST (UK)
Great horn!

Hibee
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Sunday 23 October 11 10:27 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D

I hadn't noticed the horn!!!    It is a good one isn't it!!    :D
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: TomRees on Sunday 23 October 11 11:44 BST (UK)
The forks / suspension are spot on in your link to the 1905 Peugot.

http://www.vinandvet.co.uk/bigger.php?show=images/20110068.jpg


But its not the same bike - the Peugot pictured has supplementary pedal chain drive on the right (pity it has no other pics of the bike 's rhs), and with the other differences etc, its probably not a Peugot engine in Wiggy's pic.
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Woodentop50 on Friday 28 October 11 23:54 BST (UK)
Could this be an early J.A.P. engine ?

Apparently they did supply engines to other bike makers.

This site mite be able to help.

http://cybermotorcycle.com/euro/brands/jap.htm

                                                                           Jim
Title: Re: A man, his bike and his girl - Date please
Post by: Wiggy on Saturday 29 October 11 00:15 BST (UK)
Maybe - maybe - I don't know!!    It isn't the same, I know that much, but after that.

I am fascinated in the amount of interest this has drummed up!   Thanks for all your ideas folks.  Wish I could help - but that's why I put it up - for your assistance!   ;)