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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: woodchurch on Monday 17 October 11 18:00 BST (UK)

Title: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: woodchurch on Monday 17 October 11 18:00 BST (UK)
I recently stumbled upon the obituary of Wallace Ruddell Aykroyd 1899 - 1979, a very eminent nutritionist born in Dublin.  The obit says his mother was ' the daughter of a well-known Dublin tobacco manufacturer', and I imagine quite probably the source of his middle name.

The 1913 Post Office Directiory for Dublin has a W Ruddell, tobacco manufacturer with a telephone (Dublin 108y??) at 7 Shelbourne Road, Dublin.

My great grandfather, Thomas Clarke, himself a tobacco manufacturer, (the son of William Clarke and Son of Cork and Dublin), married an Elizabeth Ruddell daughter of William Ruddell of Dublin. A good tactical move perhaps.   I do have a date and place of their marriage, 21 Feb 1865, St James's, Dublin.
Can any Rootschatter throw any light on the Ruddells?
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 17 October 11 18:11 BST (UK)
here's young Wallace and the Aykroyd family on 1901 census in Rathmines south Dublin :

   Aykroyd household (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Rathmines/Orwell_Park/1296785/)

parents are Alfred Constantine and Wilhelmina Mary. A birth cert for Wallace would show his mother's maiden name. Here's the likely index reference :

  Name: Wallace Ruddell Aykroyd
  Registration district:   Dublin South
  Event type: Birth
  Quarter and year: Jul-Sep 1899
  Volume: 2 / Page: 569


Shane
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 17 October 11 18:19 BST (UK)
and a likely marriage cross match from the BMD Index which looks like it confirms your theory about Wallace's middle name :

  Name: Alfred C Aykroyd
  Registration district:   Dublin South
  Event type: Marriage
  Quarter and year: Apr-Jun 1896
  Volume: 2 / Page: 599

  Name: Wilhelmina M Ruddell
  [same index references as Alfred]


Shane
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 17 October 11 18:35 BST (UK)
Checking for Wilhelmina's birth or baptism I dont see any sign of details in the extracted FamilySearch records, or on IrishGenealogy (There are no  Methodist records included on IrishGenealogy), but there is a good match in civil records index in 1872 in Dublin South :

  Name: Wilhelmina Mary Ruddell
  Registration district:   Dublin South
  Event type: Birth
  Year: 1872
  Volume: 12 / Page: 624

A cert would confirm the details of her place of birth and parents names. There is just one Ruddell entry in the trades index of Thom's Directory of 1872 - a William Ruddell with addresses of 147/148 Francis Street and residence at 134 James's Street.  His business/trade is listed as 'tobacco, cigar & snuff manufacturer'

Based on extracted record for a probable brother to Wilhelmina - a William Frederick Ruddell (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/93PD-31N/p1), born 25 July 1874, it looks like William's wife is named Elizabeth Mary Barlow


Shane
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 17 October 11 19:03 BST (UK)
.....
My great grandfather, Thomas Clarke..... married an Elizabeth Ruddell daughter of William Ruddell of Dublin. ...I do have a date and place of their marriage, 21 Feb 1865, St James's, Dublin.
....

That seems to be a civil marriage, or maybe Methodist ? There no sign of it on the IrishGenealogy website which includes records for the RC and CofI parishes of St. James.

Given the gap between that marriage in 1865 and Wilhelmina's birth in 1872, I wonder if there are two different William Ruddalls, father and son - i.e. maybe this Elizabeth was William jnr's brother ?



Shane
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: Pastmagic on Monday 17 October 11 19:21 BST (UK)
See:
134 Ruddell, William, tobacco, snuff,
and cigar manufacturer, 117 .....Can't work out if includes the line underneath..
http://www.libraryireland.com/Dublin-Street-Directory-1862/89.php
Yes it does:
Ruddell
William, 147-148 Francis St and 45 South Great George's St (tobacco and snuff manufacturer)
http://www.dublin1850.com/dublin1850/xdubdir75.html#Ruddell

Also at East Wall:
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/1935/12/10/00009.asp

Sorry if I am duplicating info already known;
Here they are in the Peerage:

http://thepeerage.com/p12759.htm
Several generations.

Not sure if these are the same family:
Mount Jerome Cemetary:
No.1232
Right side of number 1229:-  In | Loving Memory | of | our darling | WILLIE |
who fell asleep in Jesus | 25th June 1883 | aged 9 years | also of | ELIZABETH
MARY | widow of WILLIAM RUDDELL | who died at her residence | Eastbourne,
Terenure | Oct. 5. 1917 | aged 82 years | "Safe in the arms of Jesus".



Mount Jerome Cemetery:
No.1229
In | Affectionate | Remembrance | of | WILLIAM RUDDELL | of this City | who
departed this life | 7th of March 1878 | aged 65 years | "God if our refuge and
| heaven our home".


PM

Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 17 October 11 19:26 BST (UK)
Given the gap between that marriage in 1865 and Wilhelmina's birth in 1872, I wonder if there are two different William Ruddalls, father and son - i.e. maybe this Elizabeth was William jnr's brother ?
......

see from the peerage link the Pastmagic just posted that Elizabeth was apparently a child of William's first marriage - so might be a sister of Wilhelmina after all.



Shane
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: woodchurch on Wednesday 19 October 11 13:52 BST (UK)
Wow that's fantastic - thanks to Shanew and Pastmagic, many obstinate pieces of the jigsaw now fit together! 

So Elizabeth Ruddell, the future wife of Thomas Clarke was the daughter of William Ruddell's first wife Elizabeth Galbraith. And the Ruddells were probably methodist, perhaps from County Armagh.  Elizabeth Ruddell married Thomas Clarke and their first child was christened Elizabeth Galbraith Clarke, born 1868.  Their first son and second child was christened William Ruddell Clarke, born 1870. 

One spelling correction to the Peerage.com entry, Elizabeth Ruddell married Thomas Clarke, not Clark.  See Peerage.com Person Page 36573 for their descendants.

Pike's Contemporary Biographies of Cork 1911 has a good entry on Thomas Clarke.

So Elizabeth, Ruddell, a daughter of Dublin Snuff and tobacco manufacturer William Ruddell married Thomas Clarke son of Cork snuff and tobacco manufacturer, William Clarke!  Is there any evidence that Clarke's Tobacco inocrporated Ruddell's?  By a=way of footnote, Clarke's Tobacco (Wm Clarke and Son) was founded in Cork in 1830, was later headquartered in Dublin at Dolphins Barn, and then moved their headquarters to a new factory they built at Hare Place, Scotland Road, Liverpool in 1870.  In 1901 they were one of 13 UK companies who amalgamated to form Imperial Tobacco to compete with the American Tobacco Company
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 19 October 11 13:59 BST (UK)
from Slater's 1846 directory :

  Wm. Clarke, tobacco manufacturer, 69 South Main st, Cork

  see : link (http://www.failteromhat.com/slater/0065.pdf)



Shane
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: Pastmagic on Wednesday 19 October 11 14:19 BST (UK)
Can't answer that question, but this bit of obscure correspondence may be of interest:
http://193.178.2.84/test/R/1926/APPENDIX_25031926_1.html
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: woodchurch on Wednesday 19 October 11 19:29 BST (UK)
I think you must have hacked into a Monty Python sketch - but nobody could have made that up!  Anyway it shows W Ruddell Tobacco manufacturers were still around in 1926, as were Wm Clarke and Son in name at least, thanks for that!
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 19 October 11 20:22 BST (UK)
The Belfast News Letter Feb 25 1896 carried the following advert

"WANTED YOUNG MAN. Protestant (indoor), as ASSISTANT in Tobacco Trade; one who has served to grocery might suit. Reply, with references, stating salary expected. Wm Ruddell, 134 James Street, Dublin".

Wd this be Wm Jnr?

regards
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: Pastmagic on Thursday 20 October 11 00:54 BST (UK)
Yes, I liked that too, specially as the info from the Govt about Dail Committies referendum fell through my letterbox today.....straight from monty Python land....And I wonder where the tobbaco fields of Ireland actually were...


PM
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 20 October 11 09:59 BST (UK)
Thom's 1938 shows entries for both company's as follows :

  William Ruddell Ltd, tobacco and snuff manufacturer
  74 to 112 East Wall Road

  William Clarke & Son, branch of the Imperial Tobacco Co.
    (of Gt. Britain & Ireland) Ltd
    tobacco, snuff & cigarette manufacturers,
    148-160  South Circular Rd., Dolphins Barn
 
also found some earlier Cork city listings for the Clarke business :

 1867 W. Clarke & Sn, 69 & 71 South main St, 6 St. Patrick st. & Rock Savage
 1870 Wm. Clarke & Son, Tobacco Manufacturers, Blackrock road
 1881 Wm. Clarke & Son, Tobacco Manufacturers, 6 St. Patrick St. and 70/71 South Main St
 1894 William Clarke & Son, 69 to 71 South Main street



Shane
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: woodchurch on Thursday 20 October 11 11:31 BST (UK)
Thanks Shane and PM - Thomas Clarke had six sons, all of whom were to some extent involved in the family business in Ireland and Liverpool.  Three of them were also farmers and landowners in Co. Cork (William at Trabolgan, Ernest at Carrigaline and Thomas at Farran).  Somewhere I read that at least one of them grew tobacco on their estates, Thomas, I think (aka Capt. T A Clarke).  Note to self, must keep better records!  I have typically Victorian portraits of Thomas and Elizabeth (Ruddell) Clarke.
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: Pastmagic on Saturday 22 October 11 23:09 BST (UK)
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0037/D.0037.193102180041.html

More Monty Python...quite off the point, just plus ca change....

Mr. MacEntee: I have been reading over the speeches made by the Minister for Finance and by the Minister for Agriculture on the last occasion on which this motion was before the House. I congratulate the Ministers, not upon the accuracy of their facts, but upon the fertility of their imaginations. If it were not that the rules of debate and the rules of the House preclude the Ministers in the Chamber from publicly worshipping “my lady nicotine,” I would have formed the opinion that their pleasant mental fictions had been evolved while they were blowing smoke rings upon the  Government Bench, because there never was in any speech made, even by a Minister in this House, such a taradiddle of misrepresentation as was indulged in by the Minister for Finance in endeavouring to justify the attitude of the Government in refusing to set up this Select Committee to consider the present position and future prospects of the industry of tobacco-growing in Saorstát Eireann.........

At least in those days, the word billion never was uttered..and going up in smoke had a whole different meaning...



There is lots of stuff on line about the various Clarke brothers, which you have probably accesed..
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: woodchurch on Sunday 23 October 11 11:29 BST (UK)
Taradiddle, I must remember that! 

My original genealogical objective was to find out as much as I could about the six brothers William Ruddell, Thomas Arthur, Charles Samuel (my grandfather) Henry Herbert, Ernest Joseph and George Alfred Erskine the first three were born in Ireland and and a daughter, Elizabeth Galbraith. the other three in Liverpool. I have found various material on them, but any more links would always be welcome. 
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: Pastmagic on Sunday 23 October 11 12:42 BST (UK)
http://genforum.genealogy.com/galbraith/messages/835.html
http://genforum.genealogy.com/shaw/messages/10197.html
http://genforum.genealogy.com/galbraith/messages/296.html

If this is correct - then there is another tobbaconist family - Shaw - involved in the cigar empire......PM
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: Pastmagic on Sunday 23 October 11 12:56 BST (UK)
Elizabeth Galbraith's possible children with Thomas Shaw:
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/1885180061851
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/9c1a310062050
Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin, marriage to Thomas Clarke
Post by: Killeagh on Friday 07 February 14 02:27 GMT (UK)
Killeagh to Woodchurch

Clarkes of Farran had as land agent by name of Babington.

Title: Re: W Ruddell Tobacco Manufacturer Dublin,
Post by: HarrisonDW on Friday 10 March 23 20:41 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I have been reading a book of my relatives who owned Arnotts Department Store until 2007 crash.

The book states that Wm Ruddell Tobacco East Wall Street was aquired by my great grandfather Alexander Nesbitt (Chairman of Arnotts) for his Son William Nesbitt in 1907. When William suceeded his father the business was passed to his brother (my grandfather) Sydney Maurice Nesbitt in 1924. He died in 1955. I heard stories on how he used to go to America as owner of a Tobacco Manufacturers and hob knob with directors of Imperial Tobacco etc.

 I recall my uncle (William Nesbitt)  taking me to the factory in Dublin in 1963 when I was 6. From what I remember the factory was also producing a line in wheelbarrows!!

Anyone got any more on this.