RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: romawi on Saturday 15 October 11 05:31 BST (UK)

Title: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: romawi on Saturday 15 October 11 05:31 BST (UK)
Two of my ancestors Elizabeth aged 8 and Rachel 2 Rothwell were buried on 7th and 8th September 1834, whilst it is a high possiblity that they might have succumbed to some disease i was wondering if maybe they had an accident together. Buried in St Leonard, Middleton I hoped maybe someone could help with any ideas of where to start looking for information. pre 1837 so no death certificates I presume. Does anyone know what newspapers may have reported these deaths from the Middleton area? is there a graveyard a St Leonards that may have an MI I could look up?


The interesting thing was that after these deaths, the family had more daughters and named these new children Elizabeth and Rachel - a bit spooky but probably fairly common in those days?
Any help very gratefully recieved, I live in New Zealand and cannot travel to look in person

Thanks all

Sarah
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: danuslave on Saturday 15 October 11 06:51 BST (UK)
Quote

The interesting thing was that after these deaths, the family had more daughters and named these new children Elizabeth and Rachel - a bit spooky but probably fairly common in those days?


Quite common - and very confusing for us now.  Especially when children died very young and didn't make it onto any census  ::) :)

Linda
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: Billyblue on Saturday 15 October 11 07:14 BST (UK)
I was answering the first post when I got a warning, and then it all disappeared!

Sarah, multiple childhood deaths were quite common in the days before antibiotics.

Some possible causes:
Scarlet fever (scarlatina); any respiratory type infection; any other infection even from a cut or scrape from children playing; malnutrition; appendicitis (the 8 year old at least); tonsillitis which could lead to the scarlet fever.
There could also be some genetic cause.

As Linda says, renaming children after one who has died was quite common too. 
My Dad's family (his grandparents) had three children called Robert before the fourth one survived.

Dawn M
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: maidmarianoops on Saturday 15 October 11 07:38 BST (UK)
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Middleton/index.html

This should help

sylvia

or send me the names
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: romawi on Saturday 15 October 11 07:40 BST (UK)
Thanks Sylvia, i do have these details from Lancashire opc - however it unfortunately sheds no light on how they died. Names above in first posting. It is interestuing however that there were more than 15 deaths of children under 15 that month alone in that one church - not too uncommon to lose two maybe. i just would love to find out how they died.

Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: maidmarianoops on Saturday 15 October 11 07:54 BST (UK)
hello
i was looking for surnames
sylvia


oops its rothwell i thought that was the suburb
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: romawi on Saturday 15 October 11 08:10 BST (UK)
Yes it is very confusing trying to find the surname Rothwell when so many times the place comes up in searches - very confusing especially as i don't know the area very well at all.

Thanks for all your help - I do appreciate it.
I did manage to get to Durham last time I was home in England about 3 years ago but not to Lancashire unfortunately.
Kindest regards

Sarah
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: Joy123 on Saturday 15 October 11 10:58 BST (UK)
why not send for death certs?....my ancester burried 2 children on the same day in 1880's,  I sent for certs and they died of measles
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: danuslave on Saturday 15 October 11 14:09 BST (UK)
No certs in 1834!  (I just made a similar mistake on another thread)

Linda
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: romawi on Saturday 15 October 11 21:22 BST (UK)
Yes, no death certs this early on, so really the only options I have are graves with info on or newpaper article if it was an accident. I think the Middleton Chronicle/Middletonian was published at the time and it may be in here but don't know how to get access to archives. I have written to them but no answer  -  I live in NZ so cannot travel to them  :(.



Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: groom on Saturday 15 October 11 21:34 BST (UK)
Quote
It is interesting however that there were more than 15 deaths of children under 15 that month alone in that one church

That sounds as if there was an epidemic of some sort. I wonder if the fact that they weren't buried together on the same day is significant? Perhaps it was a case that they had to be buried quickly.

Jan
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: romawi on Saturday 15 October 11 22:15 BST (UK)
Good point - makes perfect sense. Does anyone know if there is any record or database of epidemics of disease in certain areas of the UK, again I guess the newspapers would have reported this if it was fairly widespread.
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: Winterbloom21 on Saturday 15 October 11 22:26 BST (UK)
Just typing in the phrase 'cholera epidemics in Lancashire' will give you a site listing a timeline of epidemics throughout Britain.  You'll see that cholera started in 1831, followed by three years in which typhus was pretty rampant.
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 15 October 11 22:42 BST (UK)

That sounds as if there was an epidemic of some sort. I wonder if the fact that they weren't buried together on the same day is significant? Perhaps it was a case that they had to be buried quickly.

Jan

Were they buried the same day that they died?

Perhaps the girls were put in the grave of someone else being buried on the same day that they died? Maybe they buried the first one, not knowing that the second was going to die the following day? (might explain why they are not buried together?) :-\

Doesn't bear thinking about does it ... :(
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: romawi on Saturday 15 October 11 22:55 BST (UK)
Thank you all. Timeline of epidemics is a great resource thank you - have saved that as a favourite for future use. Can't imagine losing 2 children in one day - must have been heartbreaking if not unexpected at the time.

Will endeavour with the newpaper info and if anyone knows of any transcribing of graves at Middleton - St Leonards I would love to know. I'm not sure if the graveyard is still intact, but graves may give up a little more information. If anyone knows of where to find info of MI's at St Leonards it would be most appreciated.

Thanks heaps

Sarah
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: groom on Saturday 15 October 11 23:05 BST (UK)
As Ruskie said, they may not have had their own grave as they may have been buried with someone else or have been buried in a common grave.   Unless the family were well off they probably wouldn't have a headstone.

Jan
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: EcclesCake2003 on Saturday 22 October 11 10:44 BST (UK)
  Hi there, Romwai

I think these are what you are  looking for. :)

Rachell Rothwell age 2 years daughter of Joseph ansd Sarah Rothwell buried 7th Sept 1834 St Leonards Churchyard Middleton Lancashire

Elizabeth Rothwell age 8 years daughter of Joseph and Sarah Rothwell  buried 8th Sept 1834 St Leonards churchyard Middleton

abode Middleton.

Buried by R C W Wilkinson Curate

Register 1829-1834 page 194 enrty 1548




Here is another additon to  the Rothwell family.


Baptism

Elizabeth Rothwell Baptised 16th July 1826 Manchester Cathederal

Father Joseph Rothwell mother Sarah


Marriage


Joseph Rothwell married Sarah Poole

14th Aug 1820 Manchester Catherderal



additon to information


Baptism of Raechell Rothwell daughter of Joseph and Sarah Rothwell

Baptised 23 Sept 1832 baptised by R C W Wilkinson Curate St Leonards church middleton

Abode Middleton occupation Dyer


Cheers Ecclescake


Picture of this church can be found on the Lancs on  line parish church aliong with  plenty of church records.


Cheers

Ecclescake 2003


 I found some more siblings

Joseph Rothwell  Baptised 4th Jan 1824 St Thomas Church Ardwick Manchester Lancs

son of Joseph Rothwell occ Dyer and Sarah

Bapt by W Wordsworth Curate



Richard Rothwell Bapt 10Aug 1834 St Leonards Middleton Lancs

son of Joseoh Rothwell occ Dyer and Sarah

Bapt by R C W Wilkinson Curate







Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 22 October 11 11:21 BST (UK)
Great finds EcclesCake2003!  ;D
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: romawi on Monday 24 October 11 07:21 BST (UK)
Thank you so very much. A huge help - I really appreciate the time you have taken to find this for me.  Many many thanks

Sarah

New Zealand
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: miriamkinga on Friday 04 November 11 13:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Sarah

Have you tried contacting St Leonard's direct to see if they can help?

The church has a website - www.middletonparishchurch.org.uk with contact details on it. The church is Grade 1 Listed and looks a beautiful building.

best of luck
Maria  :D
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: miriamkinga on Friday 04 November 11 13:49 GMT (UK)
It looks like the graveyard inscriptions "for yards 1 & 2" are held at Middleton Library - the email address is middleton.library[at]rochdale.gov.uk - maybe they can help or suggest someone who can?
(replace [at] with @)

They also hold newspapers for the period which might provide useful background info.

best wishes

Maria
Title: Re: 2 Young Rothwell girls buried in 2 days - any help gratefully recieved
Post by: romawi on Friday 04 November 11 20:14 GMT (UK)
Marie,
Hi, yes I did try the church but no answer. I will try the library though and see if they can help at all.

Many thanks for all your work on my behalf

Sarah