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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Ninian on Thursday 13 October 11 21:41 BST (UK)
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Hi
I've just started tracing the ancestry of Harriet Fletcher who married into our Russell family in 1880. Harriet was described in the census as a hawker. Tracing her family back through the censuses many of her family were tinmen, tinkers or braziers but it is only in the 1841 census that any are described as 'Gypsy' :- Henry Fletcher on 1841 C was described as Gypsy and his address was '1st tent in lane, Stow, Huntingdonshire'. Although they seemed to spend quite a bit of time in Warwickshire, especially Warwick itself they seem to move around a great deal: Northampton, Bucks., Oxfordshire, Huntingdonshire etc etc.
I'm quite excited at the idea that we might have gypsy blood, but can I call our Fletcher line gypsies or travellers? What is a gypsy? is it different from a traveller? and how do a find out more about travellers/gypsies and their lifestyle in the 19th century? I've browsed the links on this site (though many are broken) and some of the threads but most people are more expert than I and I'm having trouble finding out the basics. Can anyone help me by pointing me in the right direction please? Am I right in thinking that there is no way I will be able to trace then further back than the 1841 census without visiting every Record Office in the whole of England?!
Any help gratefully received!
Ninian
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hi, ninian, i am a romany traveller, so may be able to help you a little, first there is a good site at liverpool uni archives, lots of photos etc, sorry i forgotten the web site but you will find it easily. as to the difference, between gypsy travellers etc. it is too big a story to tell, but i will give you some basics, first it was a crime to be born a gypsy! and punishable by death! in parts of europe. in 16/1700s we came as a kind of refugees to england.lots setteling in the epping forrest and london ares, but spreading out all over britain as the years past. bringing metel woodworking and other skills with us. at that time you had to have a type of ticket to work in a parish, given by a warden of of the parish. this was punched with a spike, like a old but pass. and it gave you the right to work in the area. without this you could be locked up/fined, hence pikey, for spikey any one working in the parish with a spiked(punched ticket) these could be hawkers, or gypsy, or travelling salesmen. as good sites to camp were rare, they all tended to use the same camps, lane roadsides, woods etc, so eventully they inter married. and the term gypsy became generic, because of the predudice if asked were they gypsies. most said no just travelling. i,e travellers. but there are some really old romany names, that go all the way back and still travel today. and we know the real romany folki. some settle but still call themselfs romany and live by our codes.we tend to be secretive because we need to be. try living in a world where you have no rights at all? and are constantly hounded, you will tend to keep to yourself. any way things got a bit worse when new age travellers/ hippie types began calling themselfs travellers, so to differenciate we began calling our self romany travellers. and as we have gained a bit of pride we can now once again call our selfs gypsy with out fear of any prosocutions. there are far to many other things to tell and it would take ages, surffice to say we are a bit like asians in that we are all one, but there are castes within the romany gypsy people, and only we know who is really romany. by the way as a bit of intrest, in this country we are nearly all of the clan of rom, in western europe. they are sinte, in eastern europe they are roma, darker skinned, than rom or sinte in general, so as you can see it is a very mixed bunch, theres lots to learn such as language traditions dress and moral codes. but i hope this as given you a taste to start with. as to the going from gypsy to hawker, it was probebly to hide his roots still happens today! also romany folk did/ do change name many resones, and will try to avoid censuses etc and sometimes did not register a birth, my own mother born 1928 in a romany wagon was not registerd til her wedding in 1949? this may explain why its hard to find your family, but i do think you have the blood in you. as there was and are lots of romany travellers in warwickshire. pardon my spelling, and grammer self taught to read and write, so not that good. custy bok, (good luck in romany) with your search. rob..g
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The Fletchers who travelled in the counties you mentioned are definitely Romany Gypsies. So you might find it useful to get hold of a specialist research guide to help you through the basics and show you the many sources available to you.
There's one by Alan McGowan called 'On the Gypsy Trail', published by the Romany and Traveller Family History Society (www.rtfhs.org.uk) and one by Sharon Floate called 'My Ancestors Were Gypsies', published by the Society of Genealogists (3rd edition, 2010).
You might consider joining the Romany and Traveller FHS too. I know there are a number of members who are researching the name Fletcher and associated families in central England.
I'd definitely get in touch with the Gypsy Collections at the University of Liverpool – as Rob G has suggested – as you could find they have your Fletcher family tree ready and waiting for you. That's because they hold a large number of Romany Gypsy family genealogies, gathered as oral history from the Gypsies themselves in the 19th century and recorded and deposited at Liverpool, plus a large number of family photos.
Best wishes
Sharon
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http://gypsyjib.wetpaint.com/
lots of interesting info.
PM
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Hi Rob, Sharon and PM
Many thanks - this is brilliant. Rob's intro was really useful and you've given me piles of info to check out. Another gypsy family - the Smiths married into our Fletchers - Isobella Smith born 1833 in Burford Oxfordshire, daughter of Wisdom Smith b. in Hook Norton in 1785. So hopefully I'll be able to check out the Smiths as well as the Fletchers. It's useful to know that births might not be registered, so I won't get too hung up if I can't find a certificate. I have noticed that the Fletchers and Smiths were very consistent in recording their ages from one census to another - much better than my non-gypsy ancestors.
I'm having a bit of trouble with names given on the censuses. Many of the Fletchers and Smiths seem to have very common names for the time (Catherine, Charles, James, Eliza etc) but some names I can't make out at all - presumably these are unusual names confined to gypsy familes? 'Wisdom' was easy enough to read on the census but others I can't work out at all. I think one name is Leatrice and another seems to be Bansy or Baucy. Others I can't even make a guess as to what the name is. Hopefully some of the sites/books will provide gypsy names, so I can work out what the names are.
Ninian
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If you can let me know the census year/s and place/s that you're having problems with in reading the names, I'll see if I can decipher them.
The Oxfordshire Wisdom Smiths have been well-documented and - again - quite a few RTFHS members are researching this family. I'm sure they'd be pleased to share their information.
You'll also find Fletchers and Smiths cropping up in local newspapers in Oxfordshire and surrounding counties. The RTFHS has published two books of newspaper extracts containing references to Gypsies, Hawkers, Travellers and Fairground people in the area from the mid-18th to the early 20th centuries. Both are the work of Keith Chandler. You'll find details of the books on the RTFHS website in the Publications section.
Best wishes
Sharon
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Hi Sharon
That’s an offer I can’t refuse! I’d be grateful for any ideas about what the names might be. There might not be gypsy names it might just be my eyesight but I can’t work them out.
Here they are:
In the 1841 census
Henry Fletcher aged 35 Gypsy was living at “First tent in the lane, Little Catworth, Stow, Huntingdonshire”
His 15 year old looks like Leatrice?
The youngest child looks like ?Baucy or ?Bancy
By 1891 Harriet Fletcher, Henry’s granddaughter, was married (into a non gypsy family I think) and was living at 8 Monk Street, Warwick, and is recorded as:
Harriet RUSSELL Wife 30 Married Hawker* Born Warwickshire, Warwick
She has a son aged 6 whose name I can’t work out at all.
By 1901 she has remarried and is living in 12 ?Jeuts Building, Salterford, St Mary’s, Warwick, as:
Harriet GREEN Wife 39 Married Charwoman Warwickshire, Warwick
She has a 6 year old son with the surname Russell. Is his first name Nodger?
Do you know which Oxfordshire local newspapers are the most likely to have references to the Fletchers and Smiths? I have access to the 19thC Gales Newspapers Archives in the library and I think there are some Oxfordshire papers there that might be worth me looking at if I know which ones to look for. But I will try and get the RTFHS book. I see it’s the RTFHS Open Day today …. But I’m not going to get to West Sussex from Wales in time!
As this could be turning into an expensive business, I think the Keith Chandler books at £16.50 and £13.50 are something for the Christmas present list but I think I will get one of the other books now. The My Ancestors were Gypsies book is bigger and, at £10, I s’pose more comprehensive? Would that cover more of the info in the McGowan book or should I splash out a further £3.50 for the McGowan book as well?
Something that I can’t quite work out on the censuses but is not related to names is that in 1841 Dennis Fletcher, aged 6, was living in Roade, Northamptonshire with his brother James aged 19, a Tinker and an Isobella Fletcher aged 23 (might be James’ wife or a sister), but Dennis’ parents and the rest of his brothers and sisters were living in the First tent in the lane, Stow, Huntingdonshire. I’m fairly certain I’ve got the right families, but is it usual for young children to be separate from the rest of the family travelling with a brother quite a distance from the rest of the family?
These websites people have mentioned are amazing. I’ve hardly scratched the surface of them yet and my head is spinning.
Many thanks, Ninian
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hello again ninain, pleased to see you have so many replies. when you start theses things it can be a bit of a whirl! my g.g.mother was annie wilson, nee lee. and i am cousin to lots of the smiths. but it is your romany connections that are interesting. i hope you do some research and find links that make you proud of your heritage., as around 70% of british people have romany links. it is a pity folks dont look a little beyond the press headlines, that seem to be everywhere today. if you would like any romany life info, give me a shout. but it seems your in there with the best! bye. rob,,
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Hi Ninian
I've now had a chance to look at the census returns:
1841, Stow, Hunts
I think the 15-year-old is Lemantince. There's a batch of similar sounding names in Romany communities: Lementeni/Lemantina/Lamentina/Clementina. So perhaps this is the enumerator's best guess at what he heard from Henry when he took down their details.
The name of the youngest child I read as 'Bansy'. This looks like a shortened form of something. B and V are very close in pronunciation so it could even be an abbreviated form of something like Vanslow, a name you find in several Romany families.
In the neighbouring tents there are Loveridges, Bulls and Smiths: all well-known Gypsy surnames. I'd keep an eye on these as they're likely to be relatives – as you'll see below...
1891, Warwick
I think the 6-year-old is Ernest. And did you notice that there are Loveridges at No. 9 Monk Street and a George Fletcher and family on the previous page at 6 Compton Road?
1901, Warwick
I agree with your reading of the 6-year-old's name, Nodger. An odd one, but again perhaps a shortened form.
On newspapers: Jackson's Oxford Journal is available on the Gale site. So it's worth searching for Fletchers, Loveridges etc there.
On the two family history guides: you're right - My Ancestors Were Gypsies covers more sources and in more detail. It also has up-to-date web addresses etc and includes things like the 1911 census.
On Dennis Fletcher being apart from his parents in 1841: there are many possibilities. Perhaps Isabella and James just happened to have a bed free on census night! Have you tried looking for him again in other years?
And finally, I took a look at www.familysearch.org.uk to see if I could spot any baptisms for the children of Henry and Catherine Fletcher indexed there - and I was in luck. So it's worth checking them out and then heading to the appropriate parish registers to see the originals.
Also included on the same site is a reference to the marriage of a Henry Fletcher and a Catherine Loveridge which took place on 12 March 1822 at Bletchley, Bucks. Again, it will need checking in the original source. But I think that may explain why Loveridges are to be found close to the Fletchers in 1841 and again in 1891.
Best wishes
Sharon
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Hi Sharon and Rob
Yes, I've had some brilliant responses, including Personal Messages. I started off trying to follow everything up at once and got totally overwhelmed - there is just so much info to take in. I've calmed down a bit now, am taking things more slowly and am making great progress.
Many thanks Sharon for interpreting the names and directing me to family search, not only did I find the baptisms of a good number of Henry and Catherine Fletcher's children on the site but all 8 of Dennis and Isobella's kids too and others .... and I haven't finished yet. I haven't got any further back than Henry and Catherine Fletcher yet but I have lots more to explore on the websites - Romany Jib is excellent. On the Smith side I've got my tree all sorted back to Jasper Smith 1749 and it all fits together just great. I've ordered the My Ancestors Were Gypsies book for a start, will probably get others later and explore the Gale site for the Oxford Journal. I haven't had time to explore the Loveridges and Bulls but it's on my list of things to do!
It's an amazing statistic that 70% of British people have Romany links - we're certainly celebrating ours.
So many, many thanks to everyone. I'll be back when I get stuck.....
Ninian
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Hi,
I'm interested in the travelling FLETCHERs too. I'm descended from Darnity (various spellings of her given name) DRAPER a daughter of Billy (William) and Mary (COTCHIN) DRAPER, who married a gorgio.
Billy and Mary had two daughters the other being Ellen who married John RAINBOW in 1841. I'm still trying to work out if he has some Gypsy blood but he certainly travels around dealing in horses, as a carrier and general dealer, mainly in Bucks and Northants but sometimes further afield. He was baptised in Yardley Hastings, Northants and his roots there appear to be settled, but maybe there's some Gyspy blood a bit further back.
Ellen DRAPER was his second wife, his first died in late 1840 leaving him with young children, and he quickly married Ellen. They can be found in the 1841 census in Yardley Hastings "in a van at the side of the road". His first wife was called Lavinia DRAPER but I can't fit her into any DRAPER tree so far.
Billy and Mary also had four sons - Spencer, Billy Jnr, Kisby and Ellick (various spellings but formally Alexander).
Billy Jnr died as a young man, with no known issue.
Kisby, who lived to a good old age, appears to have carried on a relationship with a Gypsy called Cinderella (sometimes SMITH, sometimes BELDAM) and have a number of children with her, whilst also marrying a gorgio and having lots of children with her too. He can sometimes be found as Kisby DRAPER, sometimes Kisby SMITH and in later years with his wife as Kisby COTCHIN.
Spencer has a son called Aaron who marries Emma SEABROOK as SMITH in 1876 and says on his marriage certificate that he doesn't know who his father is. Spencer can be found as DRAPER up to the 1881 census but in 1891 he's with his wife Ann using the surname SMITH and his death is registered as Spencer SMITH.
It's Ellick where the FLETCHERs come into the story....
In 1834 at St Mary Magdalene in Little Brickhill, Bucks William FLETCHER a gyspy sojourner marries Mary LOVERIDGE otp.
At the same church in 1835 they baptise a daughter Sophia FLETCHER and in 1838 another daughter Hannah. They are shown as being of somewhere that begins BUL... in Northants, but I think this may be Bulwell Notts as there seem to be FLETCHERS in that area but I haven't seen the OPRs yet.
In the Autumn of 1860 down in Kent, and the DRAPERS seem to regularly travel down for the picking season, Alexander DRAPER marries Hannah FETCHER and then I can't find them again...... although oral history suggests they had some children.
But in 1881 Ellick pops up in the Reading area as Alexander SMITH with a wife Phoebe and children.
So what's happened to Hannah FLETCHER/DRAPER/SMITH after 1860? Can ayone help - thanks
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Hi, I too am researching the Smith/Fletcher/Russell family........
Have the same information as you, must be belonging.....
thanks
welshtrail
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CitizenSmith said:
Also included on the same site is a reference to the marriage of a Henry Fletcher and a Catherine Loveridge which took place on 12 March 1822 at Bletchley, Bucks.
Bletchley is only a couple of miles away from the Brickhills I mentioned in my previous post - and two of Ellick Draper/Smith's children Israel and Britty marry Loveridges.
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Ninian
I too am related to the Fletcher/Russell family from Warwick......I have gone back as far as the Smiths with help from the internet.........
Must be related..
Welshtrail
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Hi Ninian
New to RootsChat today!
Ref the following from your post: " Something that I can’t quite work out on the censuses but is not related to names is that in 1841 Dennis Fletcher, aged 6, was living in Roade, Northamptonshire with his brother James aged 19, a Tinker and an Isobella Fletcher aged 23 (might be James’ wife or a sister), but Dennis’ parents and the rest of his brothers and sisters were living in the First tent in the lane, Stow, Huntingdonshire. I’m fairly certain I’ve got the right families, but is it usual for young children to be separate from the rest of the family travelling with a brother quite a distance from the rest of the family? "
I am directly descended from Henry Fletcher (1841 Census in 1st tent in the lane, born 1800) and James (1841 Census in Roade). Henry married James' mother Catherine Loveridge (born 1804) on 12 Mar 1822. James was Christened in Fenny Stratford on 12 Jan 1823. James is Henry's son, Dennis is James' brother and Isabella (also a Loveridge, possibly born 1818 or 1820) is James' wife (married 27 or 28 Dec 1840 in Bedford). In the 1841 Census James, Isabella and Dennis appear to be living with Job Loveridge who may have been a relative of Isabella (the large Loveridge family appear to have used many names from the Bible).
I believe Henry and Catherine's childrens names in the 1841 Census are Lematrice or Clementia (15), Charles (13), Sally (10), Diana (6) and Baucy or Bancy (1) and of course James (18) and Dennis (6) who were in Roade. I have also found a reference in a public family tree on Ancestry to a Vansey Fletcher born at same time as Baucy but can find no later references to either of them anywhere. Other references for Diana & Dennis would make them 4 and 7 respectively in 1841.
If anyone has any detail on Henry Fletcher's descendants or Catherine Loveridge and / or Isabella Loveridge I would be very interested.
Thanks
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Re Catherine Loveridge and / or Isabella Loveridge - I suggest you buy a copy of "The family Tree of William and Margaret LOVERIDGE" by Pat Loveridge.
It shows your Dennis and James FLETCHER (sons of Catherine LOVERIDGE and Henry FLETCHER) and siblings including Lementina and Vansey.
The book is sold by the Romany and Traveller Family History Society ( http://www.rtfhs.org.uk/
and select Publications) and contains lots of information that you will be interested in.
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Hi Darnity
Thanks for this and for your personal message (can't reply to that yet as need 3 posts first I believe!). I have ordered the book you mentioned about the Loveridges.
Many thanks.
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Re my post in this thread on Tuesday 22 November 11 12:57 GMT (UK)
almost four years later I've still not found Hannah FLETCHER/DRAPER/SMITH after 1860.
Maybe she died, maybe she remarried or partnered someone else and is hiding under another name.
I'd love to know what happened to her.
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Hi There
Thought I would drop you a message as I am a Fletcher also and my family settled in Hanney was Berkshire but now Oxfordshire in the 1871 census and their address was Black Horse Orchard in a caravan. There is a site called RomanyJib that lists my Fletcher ancestory on it all the way to my great grandfather who was called Albert Fletcher. I wonder if we have the same bloodline somewhere down the way?
Jack Fletcher
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could this be your Hannah in 1871? I was looking for my 4xt gt grandparents son William Loveridge born 1859/60 and came across the following:-
1871 Bells Lane Hoo Kent
William Moles 36 conneystanton Hunts
Hannah Loveage mistress 34 Little Brittle Bucks (most like little brickhill)
with children Mary ann, William, Rebecca, Joseph,Benjamin and Ellen.
Seeing that your Hannahs mother was a Loveridge, it is quite likely she took on the names of Fletcher and Loveridge.
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Hi,
I'm interested in the travelling FLETCHERs too. I'm descended from Darnity (various spellings of her given name) DRAPER a daughter of Billy (William) and Mary (COTCHIN) DRAPER, who married a gorgio.
Billy and Mary had two daughters the other being Ellen who married John RAINBOW in 1841. I'm still trying to work out if he has some Gypsy blood but he certainly travels around dealing in horses, as a carrier and general dealer, mainly in Bucks and Northants but sometimes further afield. He was baptised in Yardley Hastings, Northants and his roots there appear to be settled, but maybe there's some Gyspy blood a bit further back.
Ellen DRAPER was his second wife, his first died in late 1840 leaving him with young children, and he quickly married Ellen. They can be found in the 1841 census in Yardley Hastings "in a van at the side of the road". His first wife was called Lavinia DRAPER but I can't fit her into any DRAPER tree so far.
Billy and Mary also had four sons - Spencer, Billy Jnr, Kisby and Ellick (various spellings but formally Alexander).
Billy Jnr died as a young man, with no known issue.
Kisby, who lived to a good old age, appears to have carried on a relationship with a Gypsy called Cinderella (sometimes SMITH, sometimes BELDAM) and have a number of children with her, whilst also marrying a gorgio and having lots of children with her too. He can sometimes be found as Kisby DRAPER, sometimes Kisby SMITH and in later years with his wife as Kisby COTCHIN.
Spencer has a son called Aaron who marries Emma SEABROOK as SMITH in 1876 and says on his marriage certificate that he doesn't know who his father is. Spencer can be found as DRAPER up to the 1881 census but in 1891 he's with his wife Ann using the surname SMITH and his death is registered as Spencer SMITH.
It's Ellick where the FLETCHERs come into the story....
In 1834 at St Mary Magdalene in Little Brickhill, Bucks William FLETCHER a gyspy sojourner marries Mary LOVERIDGE otp.
At the same church in 1835 they baptise a daughter Sophia FLETCHER and in 1838 another daughter Hannah. They are shown as being of somewhere that begins BUL... in Northants, but I think this may be Bulwell Notts as there seem to be FLETCHERS in that area but I haven't seen the OPRs yet.
In the Autumn of 1860 down in Kent, and the DRAPERS seem to regularly travel down for the picking season, Alexander DRAPER marries Hannah FETCHER and then I can't find them again...... although oral history suggests they had some children.
But in 1881 Ellick pops up in the Reading area as Alexander SMITH with a wife Phoebe and children.
So what's happened to Hannah FLETCHER/DRAPER/SMITH after 1860? Can ayone help - thanks
could this be your Hannah in 1871? I was looking for my 4xt gt grandparents son William Loveridge born 1859/60 and came across the following:-
1871 Bells Lane Hoo Kent
William Moles 36 conneystanton Hunts
Hannah Loveage mistress 34 Little Brittle Bucks (most like little brickhill)
with children Mary ann, William, Rebecca, Joseph,Benjamin and Ellen.
Seeing that your Hannahs mother was a Loveridge, it is quite likely she took on the names of Fletcher and Loveridge.
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Thanks very much for that - I'll have a good look at these people you've found in 1871.
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Thanks smileyface471686 for the find of Hannah LOVEAGE shown as William MOLES' "mistress" on the 1871 census.
Forward ten years to 1881 and they are elsewhere in Kent, with more children, and all using the surname MOLES.
This Hannah is baptised in Little Brickhill May 14th 1837 to Richard LOVERIDGE and his wife Mary, he described as a tinker.
My Hannah is baptised at Little Brickhill Feb 11 1838 to William FLETCHER and Mary nee LOVERIDGE, descibed as travellers of Northants.
Her sister Sophia Fletcher is also baptised there Sep 13 1835 to William and Mary travellers of Northants
The two Hannahs look to be cousins as Richard and Mary Loveridge appear to be siblings:
Richard Loveridge married Mary Hemmons 1833 both otp
Mary Loveridge otp married William Fletcher gypsy sojourner 1834
Lucy Loveridge married Frederick Olliff, he son Thomas and she dau Benjamin a lab, both otp wits Benjamin Loveridge and Ann Bates 1840
John Loveridge married Elizabeth White he son Benjamin tinker, she no father shown, wits Moses Loveridge and John Perry1843
all at Little Brickhill.
There are three Loveridge burials at Little Brickhill - James 1832 aged 2, James 1834 infant and Mary 1854 age 43 (probably Richard's wife)
There are nine Loveridge baptisms at Little Brickhill:
Charles Richard 1853 Nov 17 to Richard and Mary chimney sweeper born 13 Jul 1851
Elizabeth 1853 4 Dec to Richard and Mary born 19 May 1847
the Hannah who partners William Moles in 1837
James 1831 Feb 6 to Benjamin and Hannah tinker
James 1834 Dec 18 to Richard and Mary tinker
John 1841 Dec 19 to Benjamin and Priscilla tinker and brazier
Margaret 1814 - the earliest Loveridge entry in the transcribed PRs - to Solomon and Mary tinker sojourner
Mary Ann 1853 Dec 4 to Richard and Mary chimney sweeper born 12 May 1845
Sarah 1842 Apr 17 to Richard and Mary chimney sweeper
and William 1839 4th Aug to Richard and Mary tinker
Lucy and Frederick Olliff are in Aylesbury in 1851 with Richard and Mary.
So it looks like Richard, Mary, Lucy and John are the children of Benjamin Loveridge and they all often spend time in Little Brickhill.
So Hannah FLETCHER (mother Mary Loveridge) wife of Alexander DRAPER (aka SMITH) is still awol after her marriage in 1860 in Kent.
Thanks again
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i think some of the loveridges mentioned on here are my relatives . my 3rd great grandad benjamin loveridge was married to hannah grey they had ten children including john,richard,aaron and moses (twins) and mary who married william fletcher they stayed in buckinghamshire and east anglia
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Very pleased to meet you j.1959
So if Mary was the daughter of Benjamin Loveridge and Hannah Grey
that would explain why she and William Fletcher named one of their daughters Hannah - after granny.
Do you know what happened to Hannah after she married Alexander Draper/Smith?
Which of the children do you descend from?
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hi i havent got hannah as a daughter of mary and william on my tree iv got them as having four children;thomas,david,sophia and william.my 2nd great grandad john was marys brother ,his son james was my great grandad,his son robert was my grandad and roberts son also called robert was my dad
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hi i havent got hannah as a daughter of mary and william on my tree iv got them as having four children;thomas,david,sophia and william.my 2nd great grandad john was marys brother ,his son james was my great grandad,his son robert was my grandad and roberts son also called robert was my dad
At what point in time do they have the four children Thomas, David, Sophia and William? Is this on a Census?
Do you agree that the parents' marriage is 1834 at St Mary Magdalene in Little Brickhill, Bucks William FLETCHER a gyspy sojourner marries Mary LOVERIDGE otp?
At the same church in 1835 William and Mary baptise a daughter Sophia FLETCHER and in 1838 another daughter Hannah. She marries in Kent in 1860.
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1834-1851 i got my info from ancestry so must have missed hannah fletcher.i'm not a paying member on ancestry atm so can't look for anyone.i haven't got anything as regards where they were married but they were living in that area i believe
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on my tree iv got hannah having 8 children with william moles but three of them have the surname loveridge and five have the surname moles. childrens names mary ann, william and rebecca loveridge and joseph,benjamin,ellen,hannah and frederic moles
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Thanks - I think you are following the Hannah who
was baptised in Little Brickhill May 14th 1837 to Richard LOVERIDGE and his wife Mary, he described as a tinker. She is the one who partners Moles.
See earlier postings about the Moles connection.
The other Hannah, who is probably her cousin who marries Alexander Draper, is baptised at Little Brickhill Feb 11 1838 to William FLETCHER and Mary nee LOVERIDGE, described as travellers of Northants.
But I'm very happy for anyone to show that I'm misreading the information about these Loveridge/Fletcher families.
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yes richard was my great great grandads brother
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I’ve just joined this site as I’m researching my family background. You can imagine my shock when I saw this post ! My gran was a Romany, her mother was a gaskin and her father a fletcher. I’m if the understanding the Fletchers were from the Birmingham area whilst the Gaskins were from Suffolk. I’ve a great great uncle called Alfred Gaskin who was from Sudbury and was enlisted into the army in Byker showground in WW1 and was killed just outside Ypres in 1917. I visit his grave every year.
Where it gets interesting is that my gran married into the Hunt family and settled in Gateshead where I am from. I now live in Tiptree and appear to have unwittingly retraced my family footsteps South.
If anyone has any further information regarding the Gaskins in this area I’d love to hear from you. Jason
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do you know the first name of your great grandad fletcher?
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Hi
Yes his name was Bertie Fletcher.
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Hi,
I signed up to talk to you about this. I don't have much information but there are definitely Fletchers in Northampton and they are settled travellers.
They're a well known family in Northampton is all I'll say.
Here's one of them, known as "Mushy Boy Fletcher" fighting in a pub in Duston, Northampton in 2008.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_BX_SFmd6E
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Hi,
I signed up to talk to you about this. I don't have much information but there are definitely Fletchers in Northampton and they are settled travellers.
They're a well known family in Northampton is all I'll say.
There's a video on youtube of one of them, known as "Mushy Boy Fletcher" fighting in a pub in Duston, Northampton in 2008. Though the title says different as it's been reposted loads of times.
I commented twice, just in case in my last comment didn't make it past the moderators due to having a video link in it
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I am apparently related to a Harriet nee Fletcher. She was my my maternal grandmother’s mother.
B abt 1866 • Warwick, St Mary, Warwickshire, England
Marriage To Horse Trainer Henry Green BIRTH ABT 1821 • Bow, Middlesex, England
28 Sep 1899 • Warwick, St Mary, Warwickshire, England
DEATH 1950 • Windsor
She was an incredible woman by all accounts, there are at least two to my knowledge
I must say I am somewhat confused as I thought that she was born at Dedworth.
Another point that links with gypsies is that a late uncle told his employer and wrote about being kidnapped by gypsies when he was a few years old.