RootsChat.Com

General => The Common Room => Topic started by: flipflops on Monday 10 October 11 19:13 BST (UK)

Title: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: flipflops on Monday 10 October 11 19:13 BST (UK)
It was one of those true life problem shows.

Two brothers whose mum died without leaving a will, but just before she died she was reported as saying that one brother shouldn't get anything so the other brother got the lot, money house etc.

It was a while ago, but I'm just wondering how it came about. Is it something that's easy to do if the other, disinherited person doesn't  put up a challenge?
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: groom on Monday 10 October 11 19:31 BST (UK)
I always understood that if there isn't a will then the deceased's estate is distributed according to the Law on Intestacy. This would mean if there was no surviving partner the money is shared equally between children. Otherwise what would there be to stop a person saying that the deceased said they were to have it all and getting friends to swear that they were there when it was said?

Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: RJ_Paton on Monday 10 October 11 20:26 BST (UK)
A lot depends on the time frame - land and houses used to go to the eldest son by right of  primogeniture -

Quote
the first-born son inherited the entirety of a parent's wealth, estate, title or office and then would be responsible for any further passing of the inheritance to his siblings

Later on if no will was left then the estate would have been split between the children, more or less equally. The sting I think comes in the last sentence of your post "if the other, disinherited person doesn't  put up a challenge? " . If unchallenged the primary inheritor could get away with anything possibly until such times as a valid challenge is made and upheld.
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: msallen on Tuesday 11 October 11 08:31 BST (UK)
Its probably quite feasible if there were independent witnesses to the statement (ie not just the brother who was to get it all).

I have a number of probate records which, rather than a will, contain a sworn statement, written after the death, detailing what the deceased had said they wanted to happen to their estate.
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Dancing Master on Tuesday 11 October 11 22:40 BST (UK)
Word of mouth is not sufficient if two sons  and no will the estate will be divided equally in law, the Probate Court and /or solicitor would be obliged to divide the estate.  Perhaps the second person  and the authorities were deliberately not told about the 2nd person. but any good solicitor would check it out.

How long ago was this? 
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: newburychap on Wednesday 12 October 11 11:10 BST (UK)
There are such things as nuncupative wills - essentially verbal instructions given from the deathbed.  Like normal wills they must be recorded and witnessed (by at least two people), but not necessarily signed by the testator - who may well be dead by the time the will is written up and the witnesses sign.
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: flipflops on Saturday 15 October 11 12:24 BST (UK)
It was abt eight to ten years ago.  So if it wasn't a nuncupative will, one son acted illegally but is unlikely to be found out unless there's some kind of challenge, which would probably be statute barred by now. the things people do.
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: davidft on Saturday 15 October 11 12:42 BST (UK)
It was abt eight to ten years ago.  So if it wasn't a nuncupative will, one son acted illegally but is unlikely to be found out unless there's some kind of challenge, which would probably be statute barred by now. the things people do.

i don't think so. My reading of the Limitation Act 1980 says otherwise.

Remember not all crimes are statute barred after time eg murder
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Valda on Monday 17 October 11 08:16 BST (UK)
Hi


'A Non-cupative will or ‘deathbed will’ was an orally declared will in front of two witnesses. A holographic will was handwritten by the person making the will, signed and dated by them but not witnessed. This sort of will was often found amongst the deceased papers. These types of wills were legal until the Wills Act 1837. In the case of non-cupative wills an exception was made after 1837 for military personnel on active service and merchant seamen.'


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Emjaybee on Monday 17 October 11 08:57 BST (UK)
Make your will now. We got a special offer for a simple will £75 each person. The solicitor is the executor.

It is a bit daunting to make a will, however, my wife has been near to death on three occasions and was glad to know her affairs were  in order. She is not yet 70
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Valda on Monday 17 October 11 22:06 BST (UK)
Hi


Modern surveys differ on what proportion of the current population has a will, but even the most optimistic put it at less than half. The National Consumer Council’s research in 2007 not unsurprisingly revealed that older people and those in higher socio-economic groups were more likely to make wills.


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: danuslave on Tuesday 18 October 11 02:30 BST (UK)
Even one of the 'Heir Hunters' confessed in one programme that he hadn't made a will!

Linda
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Emjaybee on Tuesday 18 October 11 09:17 BST (UK)
We now have two prepaid funeral plans in place. Regardless of inflation or time scale we still get the same level of service.

Our kids will have no problems getting rid of us, and as we wished.


 
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Nick29 on Tuesday 18 October 11 09:25 BST (UK)
We now have two prepaid funeral plans in place. Regardless of inflation or time scale we still get the same level of service.

Our kids will have no problems getting rid of us, and as we wished.


Out of interest - what happens if the company goes bust ?

A comment to all - be careful about 'special offers' from solicitors re will prices - if you shop around, you'll find that they all charge much the same.  We had our wills made out last year for £140 for the two of us by a local firm.

Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Shropshire Lass on Tuesday 18 October 11 13:15 BST (UK)
Make your will now. We got a special offer for a simple will £75 each person. The solicitor is the executor.

The solicitor can afford to do the will cheaply because he/she will more than recoup the cost in executor charges!

It's always worth naming a couple of family members or friends as executors.  If they feel the need to, they can employ solicitors to do part or all of the work but most people can handle a simple estate.

Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: flipflops on Tuesday 18 October 11 14:11 BST (UK)
Many thanks for the replies - it doesn't look too good for the brother, does it?

I think the cost of a will can vary greatly, cheaper of course if a couple have simple 'mirror wills' leaving everything, or mostly everything to one another.
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: RRYFS on Tuesday 18 October 11 16:03 BST (UK)
If you have suitable family members who will act as executors, you can use one of the commercial will kits to write your own. As long as you comply with all the requirements to the letter and get your signature witnessed, this will not only save you money, but also your beneficiaries who will save the cost of solicitors executing your wishes. I have now acted as executor twice - the first time I used the Which guide and managed quite adequately - and it just involves assorted correspondence to contact all accounts, etc. where there are assets, paying any outstanding bills, completing the appropriate tax form, and applying for probate. Then you gather all the assets in a separate account and pay out the beneficiaries. The biggest problem for those left behind at present seems to be the insistence of Funeral Directors in being paid upfront, when accounts are frozen until probate. The general advice seems to be that if you approach a bank/building society holding assets of the deceased, they will usually advance the amount to pay that bill.
Now I must do something about my will which is over 20 years old and needs changing!
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Nick29 on Tuesday 18 October 11 16:13 BST (UK)
I think many solicitors make their money unravelling the wills of those who have used DIY forms and then have not expressed their wishes in an unambiguous manner  :)
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: flipflops on Tuesday 18 October 11 17:21 BST (UK)
Will Aid is running at present in the UK where a couple can make a simple mirror will for a donation of £125 for a mirror will or £85 for a single will.
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: rancegal on Tuesday 18 October 11 21:09 BST (UK)
   This reminded me about what happens if executors are reluctant. My cousin was executor of my estranged father's will. He was very unhappy about the terms of the will, but agreed to be executor in the hope that my father might change his mind.
     I wondered why he was so reluctant to talk about it, then realised he didn't know that I already knew what the will contained (my son had told me)

      However, when I went to the probate office they were extremely helpful (we didn't need probate). If an executor does not wish to act, he or she can write a statement to that effect, and nominate another person to be executor. To make quite sure, my cousin swore an affadavit, nominating me as executor. I spent a day getting death certs, organising the funeral, clearing up odds and ends etc.
Finally, I claimed my expenses for that day (train fare and a meal) from the estate, and the remaining small sum was divided equally between my two children.
   
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Nick29 on Wednesday 19 October 11 09:54 BST (UK)
If you nominate one of the beneficiaries as an executor, then there should be no reluctance on their part  ;)
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Dave the Walrus on Tuesday 25 October 11 08:45 BST (UK)
Hi flipflops,

I was just browsing and saw your comments.
The "Law of Intestate Succession" would apply. From memory, the surviving spouse is entitled to the house and the first £15,000 and the rest is divided up equally. I hope my memory serves me well.

Best wishes,

Dave
Title: Re: Puzzled by a TV Show - When someone dies without a will?
Post by: Nick29 on Tuesday 25 October 11 10:44 BST (UK)
Not that's not quite correct.  Where there is no valid will, then the laws of intestacy have established rules, as to who benefits from the estate - see this site (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_family/family_index_ew/who_can_inherit_if_there_is_no_will___the_rules_of_intestacy.htm)

As for people making 'mirror wills' - a solicitor would see the folly of doing this and would advise that a clause is inserted regarding what would happen should both partners die at the same time.  This is what you pay a solicitor for.