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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: flipflops on Monday 10 October 11 19:13 BST (UK)
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It was one of those true life problem shows.
Two brothers whose mum died without leaving a will, but just before she died she was reported as saying that one brother shouldn't get anything so the other brother got the lot, money house etc.
It was a while ago, but I'm just wondering how it came about. Is it something that's easy to do if the other, disinherited person doesn't put up a challenge?
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I always understood that if there isn't a will then the deceased's estate is distributed according to the Law on Intestacy. This would mean if there was no surviving partner the money is shared equally between children. Otherwise what would there be to stop a person saying that the deceased said they were to have it all and getting friends to swear that they were there when it was said?
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A lot depends on the time frame - land and houses used to go to the eldest son by right of primogeniture -
the first-born son inherited the entirety of a parent's wealth, estate, title or office and then would be responsible for any further passing of the inheritance to his siblings
Later on if no will was left then the estate would have been split between the children, more or less equally. The sting I think comes in the last sentence of your post "if the other, disinherited person doesn't put up a challenge? " . If unchallenged the primary inheritor could get away with anything possibly until such times as a valid challenge is made and upheld.
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Its probably quite feasible if there were independent witnesses to the statement (ie not just the brother who was to get it all).
I have a number of probate records which, rather than a will, contain a sworn statement, written after the death, detailing what the deceased had said they wanted to happen to their estate.
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Word of mouth is not sufficient if two sons and no will the estate will be divided equally in law, the Probate Court and /or solicitor would be obliged to divide the estate. Perhaps the second person and the authorities were deliberately not told about the 2nd person. but any good solicitor would check it out.
How long ago was this?
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There are such things as nuncupative wills - essentially verbal instructions given from the deathbed. Like normal wills they must be recorded and witnessed (by at least two people), but not necessarily signed by the testator - who may well be dead by the time the will is written up and the witnesses sign.
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It was abt eight to ten years ago. So if it wasn't a nuncupative will, one son acted illegally but is unlikely to be found out unless there's some kind of challenge, which would probably be statute barred by now. the things people do.
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It was abt eight to ten years ago. So if it wasn't a nuncupative will, one son acted illegally but is unlikely to be found out unless there's some kind of challenge, which would probably be statute barred by now. the things people do.
i don't think so. My reading of the Limitation Act 1980 says otherwise.
Remember not all crimes are statute barred after time eg murder
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Hi
'A Non-cupative will or ‘deathbed will’ was an orally declared will in front of two witnesses. A holographic will was handwritten by the person making the will, signed and dated by them but not witnessed. This sort of will was often found amongst the deceased papers. These types of wills were legal until the Wills Act 1837. In the case of non-cupative wills an exception was made after 1837 for military personnel on active service and merchant seamen.'
Regards
Valda
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Make your will now. We got a special offer for a simple will £75 each person. The solicitor is the executor.
It is a bit daunting to make a will, however, my wife has been near to death on three occasions and was glad to know her affairs were in order. She is not yet 70
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Hi
Modern surveys differ on what proportion of the current population has a will, but even the most optimistic put it at less than half. The National Consumer Council’s research in 2007 not unsurprisingly revealed that older people and those in higher socio-economic groups were more likely to make wills.
Regards
Valda
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Even one of the 'Heir Hunters' confessed in one programme that he hadn't made a will!
Linda
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We now have two prepaid funeral plans in place. Regardless of inflation or time scale we still get the same level of service.
Our kids will have no problems getting rid of us, and as we wished.
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We now have two prepaid funeral plans in place. Regardless of inflation or time scale we still get the same level of service.
Our kids will have no problems getting rid of us, and as we wished.
Out of interest - what happens if the company goes bust ?
A comment to all - be careful about 'special offers' from solicitors re will prices - if you shop around, you'll find that they all charge much the same. We had our wills made out last year for £140 for the two of us by a local firm.
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Make your will now. We got a special offer for a simple will £75 each person. The solicitor is the executor.
The solicitor can afford to do the will cheaply because he/she will more than recoup the cost in executor charges!
It's always worth naming a couple of family members or friends as executors. If they feel the need to, they can employ solicitors to do part or all of the work but most people can handle a simple estate.
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Many thanks for the replies - it doesn't look too good for the brother, does it?
I think the cost of a will can vary greatly, cheaper of course if a couple have simple 'mirror wills' leaving everything, or mostly everything to one another.
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If you have suitable family members who will act as executors, you can use one of the commercial will kits to write your own. As long as you comply with all the requirements to the letter and get your signature witnessed, this will not only save you money, but also your beneficiaries who will save the cost of solicitors executing your wishes. I have now acted as executor twice - the first time I used the Which guide and managed quite adequately - and it just involves assorted correspondence to contact all accounts, etc. where there are assets, paying any outstanding bills, completing the appropriate tax form, and applying for probate. Then you gather all the assets in a separate account and pay out the beneficiaries. The biggest problem for those left behind at present seems to be the insistence of Funeral Directors in being paid upfront, when accounts are frozen until probate. The general advice seems to be that if you approach a bank/building society holding assets of the deceased, they will usually advance the amount to pay that bill.
Now I must do something about my will which is over 20 years old and needs changing!
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I think many solicitors make their money unravelling the wills of those who have used DIY forms and then have not expressed their wishes in an unambiguous manner :)
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Will Aid is running at present in the UK where a couple can make a simple mirror will for a donation of £125 for a mirror will or £85 for a single will.
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This reminded me about what happens if executors are reluctant. My cousin was executor of my estranged father's will. He was very unhappy about the terms of the will, but agreed to be executor in the hope that my father might change his mind.
I wondered why he was so reluctant to talk about it, then realised he didn't know that I already knew what the will contained (my son had told me)
However, when I went to the probate office they were extremely helpful (we didn't need probate). If an executor does not wish to act, he or she can write a statement to that effect, and nominate another person to be executor. To make quite sure, my cousin swore an affadavit, nominating me as executor. I spent a day getting death certs, organising the funeral, clearing up odds and ends etc.
Finally, I claimed my expenses for that day (train fare and a meal) from the estate, and the remaining small sum was divided equally between my two children.
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If you nominate one of the beneficiaries as an executor, then there should be no reluctance on their part ;)
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Hi flipflops,
I was just browsing and saw your comments.
The "Law of Intestate Succession" would apply. From memory, the surviving spouse is entitled to the house and the first £15,000 and the rest is divided up equally. I hope my memory serves me well.
Best wishes,
Dave
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Not that's not quite correct. Where there is no valid will, then the laws of intestacy have established rules, as to who benefits from the estate - see this site (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_family/family_index_ew/who_can_inherit_if_there_is_no_will___the_rules_of_intestacy.htm)
As for people making 'mirror wills' - a solicitor would see the folly of doing this and would advise that a clause is inserted regarding what would happen should both partners die at the same time. This is what you pay a solicitor for.