RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Eve45 on Sunday 09 October 11 05:41 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I'm trying to find the forebears of Alfred HODSON (1851-1932). His parents according to the death index were James and Ann. Several trees at Ancestry say that Ann is Ann PENNINGTON, probably because that is the only marriage for a James HODSON and Ann anybody in the entire index (1831). Further research shows that Ann Pennington was actually born Ann STIRRUP in 1874, so she can't have been having children in 1851!
I have Alfred's descendants but cannot find anything about his parents, their deaths or arrival in Aus. I plan to order Alfred's marriage certificate when finances permit (1873 to Elizabeth HUTCHIN nee HARRIS) but Rootschatters have always been very helpful, so I thought I'd try here first.
Many thanks...
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Hi there,
Do you have a copy or a transcript of the NSW BDM certificate for his death? A transcript will give you the details re the parentage of the deceased, also the occupation and age of the deceased (including surnames) , any marriages, spouse/s and children/ages of the marriage/s ... as well as cemetery details, clergy, funeral directors. Of course the family history information is only as reliable as the informant's own knowledge, but it frequently provides further clues to advance your searching.
NSW transcription agents appointed by the NSW BDM can provide transcripts cheaper and more quickly (email as pdf attachments for example) than the real deal certificates.
Cheers, JM
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I just did a quick search on nsw bmd for an Alfred Hodson birth and found this
1851 Alfred Hodson F. James M. Ann
1853 William Hodson F. James M. Ann
Doesn't say what district in nsw
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Here are both Alfred & William's Christenings:
HODSON Alfred - Christening 1851
Ref Number: V1851299 56
Parish: Windsor, Wesleyan Methodist
Father: James
Mother: Ann
HODSON William - Christening 1853
Ref Number: V18532221 39A
Parish: Windsor, St Matthew's, Church of England
Father: James
Mother: Ann
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Thanks for your replies - I think I'll need to get the marriage cert sooner rather than later. I've found death notices for both Alfred and his wife and while they're great for family details they don't tell you about his parents :-)
Just saw your post too, Merlin - much appreciated.
Thanks again...
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Marriage of HODSON & PENNINGTON in 1831
HODSON James m. PENNINGTON Ann 1831
Ref Number: V1831215 73A
Parish: Sydney, Scots Church, Presbyterian
It's quite possible that James &/or Ann were convicts or children of convicts born here.
I'll see what I can dig up for you later :)
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Thanks - I've seen the newspaper announcement for this marriage but I don't think it's our folks. This Ann was married at least three times (lastly to a James Hodson) and was born in 1874, so I doubt if she was mother to Alfred and William. I REALLY wanted it to be her, but it doesn't look like it...
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This Ann was married at least three times (lastly to a James Hodson) and was born in 1874, so I doubt if she was mother to Alfred and William. I REALLY wanted it to be her, but it doesn't look like it...
Would you like to tell me where you got this information from?
She would be a very clever lady to be born in 1874 & go back in time to marry in 1831 ;D
There is probably more than one Ann Pennington & James Hodson...
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I don't know whether this is your family or not, but as James and Ann's two children were born at Windsor it might be worth noting when you find further info.
A property saga from the newspaper
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0fh2/
On the second page James HODSON says that he and his brother (William) came to the colony in 1850. I can find William, his possible wife Ruth (WILKINSON) and mother Elizabeth arriving on the Anglia in 1850. The immigration record says that husband/father Thomas HODSON was tried in Preston and transported on the "Elizabeth" around 1820 (it was actually 1816) and was living at Windsor in 1850. The family were all from Lancashire.
I have been through the whole passenger list and cannot see James HODSON. There are a number of possible matches for a Lancashire marriage for a James HODSON to an Ann.
I wonder if it was your James who threatened to stick a knife in his wife's liver? ;D
Debra :)
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Sorry Merlin, that should have been 1784, of course. Senior moment!
The info came from a query at Cousins Connect, about Ann, who was the daughter of Hugh STIRRUP and Ann GIBSON, who married in Lancashire. Ann was born London, 1 May 1784. Ann married Robert ROSE at St Paul's Covent Garden in London on 29 August 1801. Ann went to Australia in 1821 with her second husband Joseph PENNINGTON. After Joseph died she married James HODSON in 1831. Ann apparently had three daughters.
The Sydney Gazette and New South Wales Advertiser of Thursday 17 November 1831 announced the marriage of James HODSON, Esq., D. A. C. G., to Mrs. PENNINGTON, of Hunter's River.
Thanks Dundee, I'm off to have a look at the article you mentioned. Cheers!
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The 1828 Census shows Thomas HODSON labourer age 48yrs TOL living at Windsor.
He had been tried at Lancaster 1815 age 33yrs, given a life sentence & arrived on the Elizabeth I (1) in 1816.
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Sorry Merlin, that should have been 1784, of course. Senior moment!
The info came from a query at Cousins Connect, about Ann, who was the daughter of Hugh STIRRUP and Ann GIBSON, who married in Lancashire. Ann was born London, 1 May 1784. Ann married Robert ROSE at St Paul's Covent Garden in London on 29 August 1801. Ann went to Australia in 1821 with her second husband Joseph PENNINGTON. After Joseph died she married James HODSON in 1831. Ann apparently had three daughters.
The Sydney Gazette and New South Wales Advertiser of Thursday 17 November 1831 announced the marriage of James HODSON, Esq., D. A. C. G., to Mrs. PENNINGTON, of Hunter's River.
Thanks Dundee, I'm off to have a look at the article you mentioned. Cheers!
Thanks that clears that up ;)
Lets see what else we can find for you :)
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The James HODSON in the article also says that he was present when his father paid some money to Mr. HOLLIS in January 1850.
He was lying, here he is under HODGSON:
Rammillies
Arr. Aug 1850
James, 38, weaver, born Preston, Lancashire, parents Thomas and Elizabeth, father Thomas living at Windsor, tried at Lancashire in 1816.
Ann, 32, house servant, born North Meols, Lancashire, parents -- and Jane WILSON living at Preston
Thomas, 13?, born Wigan, Lancshire
Mary, 11, born Preston
Joseph, 8, born Preston
Elizabeth, 6, born Preston
John, 2, born Preston
Debra :)
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Marriage of JAMES HODSON - Preston, Lancashire:
HODSON James m. WILSON Ann - 1841 St John, Preston #229/2/438
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Oh, you guys are good!
This is great - Debra, I think you're right about the article about the Hodsons being this family. I've been trawling Trove newspapers and found many references to different Hodson families, but it looks like old Thomas might be the link between at least some of them. And now we have a location in Lancashire, which will make it easier. I've just ordered the marriage cert for Alfred and Elizabeth in 1873 to confirm Alfred's parents, but I have a feeling this is the right family.
Thanks heaps to all of you!
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He was lying, here he is under HODGSON:
Obviously the family used HODGSON & HODSON ::)
Thomas appears with both names in his convict records ;)
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NSW Electoral Roll 1878 BATHURST just this one, noting none enrolled as Hodgson
Alfred HODSON, Howick St, householder
NSW ER 1903 MACQUARIE, Polling at BATHURST, all with surname HODSON, none as HODGSON
Alfred, wheelwright, Stewart St
Elizabeth, domestic duties, Stewart St
Frederick Walter, carter, Stewart St
William Herbert, clerk, Stewart St
Cheers, JM PS, if there's blanks on that 1873 mc where the vital family history re parents/ages/occupations ought to be, please let us know, as there's ways and means to overcome the apparent brickwalls, .... they are only hurdles.
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Thank you so much! The cert is ordered - not sure how long it will take. They say three weeks on the website but I'm in Melbourne and last time I ordered one I had it in my hot little hands within three days (can't complain about the service).
Thanks for the offer re the marriage cert, I appreciate it - I've had a couple where the information is very minimal, so I will certainly be in touch if that's the case here.
That's definitely my Alfred. The Bathurst Free Press and Mining Journal of Saturday 25 November 1882 reported an assault case: Alfred Hodson v. Edward Lalor - complainant Alfred Hodson, wheelwright, residing in Howick-street. Elizabeth was his wife and Frederick and William were two of their six known children.
All the best, Eve
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Eve, I have PM'd you a contact of a researcher for Thomas & James HODSON/HODGSON of Lancashire (convict & son).
Hopefully she might have some information to help you out :)
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Well, the marriage certificate of Alfred Hodson and Elizabeth Hutchin (nee Harris) has arrived. JM said last week: "PS, if there's blanks on that 1873 mc where the vital family history re parents/ages/occupations ought to be, please let us know, as there's ways and means to overcome the apparent brickwalls, .... they are only hurdles."
Right on the money, JM. The birthplace, age, parents names and father's occupation columns are blank. The marriage took place on 4th October 1873 at the house of the Revd George Woolnough, MA, Bathurst, according to the forms of the Wesleyan Church. Alfred was a bachelor and a wheelwright, Elizabeth was a widow. Witnesses were John Burns and Anne Rowan (her mark). Alfred also made his mark, while Elizabeth signed.
Although I'm convinced that Alfred was the son of James Hodson and Ann Wilson, it would be good to have some proof. Even an age would be useful! I've been looking up vital records and census returns and so on during the week and it all fits perfectly, with James being the son of the convict Thomas Hod(g)son. I suppose my next step should be Alfred/s death certificate, but it gets a bit expensive (for someone not a direct ancestor) and I already know about his wife, children, death date and burial place from death notices. His death registration says his parents were James and Ann, so I might just have to make the leap.
Thanks for everyone's help - I'm a lot further now than I was last week!
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;D ;D ;D
A conversation
JM : Tis definitely only a hurdle
Others : Agh, how so
JM : Well, ummm .... I did up this thread at RChat to help get over the hurdles ;D ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
and example of missing info is at reply #12 of this thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,557757.10.html
;D ;D ;D
JM Tip : If the church registry is not at the Uniting Church, Bathurst, then it may be in the Archives for the Uniting Church, which several years ago were at the former offices of Burnside Boys Homes, Pennant Hills Road, NORTH PARRAMATTA ....
Fingers crossed for Eve that the hurdle will fall over too ;D
Cheers, JM (Yep, I am a tad NSW centric ... )
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Hi
Just for the record, Ann Stirrup was born in 1784 in London. She married James Hodson in 1831 at Scots Church Sydney. Family stories say James left her and returned to England. James was an assistant commissiary general. Other than that I know nothing about him. James was her third husband and Ann did have 3 daughters by her first 2 husbands. They were all born in England. By the time Ann married James Hodson she would have been 47 . To my knowledge they had no children. Written by
Ann's great, great, great , great grand daughter.
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Hi Virginia, by which child are you descended from Ann? Her daughter Sarah Ann Rose, the one who married Rev George Augustus Middleton, is my great great great great great grandmother. If you are related to the Middletons, I was wondering if you had heard anything about George's parents? Because there is a story in our family that he was a bastard son of King George III. (This doesn't line up with his age nor character, but the revised theory is possibly by George IV or William his brother.) The justification is that he was said to have been born in August of 1791, but his brother Osmond was also born on 1st December 1791.
Thanks,
Caleb