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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: Rosie60 on Friday 07 October 11 18:37 BST (UK)

Title: Dundee Railways
Post by: Rosie60 on Friday 07 October 11 18:37 BST (UK)
Hi,

I wonder if anyone can tell me which Railway Company would have ran through Dundee during the 1870's? My gt gt grandfather worked on the railways at that time and died in 1876, following an accident at work. Unfortunately, I have no idea, which company he worked for.

Thank you for any help.

Rosie
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: The Mc on Friday 07 October 11 19:07 BST (UK)
The North British Railway ran the main line from Aberdeen to Edinburgh through Dundee at that time and owned the Tay bridge...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_British_Railway

There was also other minor company lines opaerting into Dundee also.
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Rosie60 on Friday 07 October 11 19:12 BST (UK)
Thank you very much for your help. I presume that the NAS will be the place to contact re employment records?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: ev on Friday 07 October 11 19:53 BST (UK)
hi Rosie  :)

have you tried the black sheep index(and white  ;) ) for railway accidents ?

http://www.blacksheepindex.co.uk/

look at the railway index for names

ev
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Rosie60 on Friday 07 October 11 20:08 BST (UK)
Hi Ev,

I had never heard of this website, so thank you for the introduction. It looks very interesting and one to add to my list. However, on this occasion, frustratingly, there is no listing of my ancestor. But thank you for taking the time to contact me.

Rosie
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: The Mc on Friday 07 October 11 20:57 BST (UK)
Rosie......do you have your ancester's name? There are other ways and means of finding out more about him....
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Rosie60 on Friday 07 October 11 21:17 BST (UK)
His name was Thomas Conlin/Connelly. Born vaguely in Ireland in about 1840. Married in Dundee in 1861 to Bridget Waters/Walters . He died on 1st July 1876, aged about 35yrs old of a fracture of the tarsel bones and gangrene of the leg, the result of a railway accident. That's all I've got. I'm sure there must be more to find about him but I've hit the brick wall and do not have the knowledge to know where to look now.

Any ideas would be gratefully received.

Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: The Mc on Friday 07 October 11 22:33 BST (UK)
Although he died in 1876, is there any chance the accident could have been in 1871 or 1872?
There were 2 accidents at Ninewells Junction in Dundee on the Caledonian Railway.

1871 - The first was driver error/collision/derailment with 0 fatalities and 3 injured.

1872 - The second was at the same location due to guard error/unsafe shunting again with 0 fatalities and 3 injured.

Could he have been one of these injured and died from his injuries several years later?
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Gali on Friday 07 October 11 22:52 BST (UK)
There is a Thomas Connelly, b. Ireland in c. 1840 on the 1851 census lodging on Cowgate with his father, also Thomas, a railway worker and three siblings ... have you investigated this family?   

Have you located him on 1861 and 1871 census? 

Do his marriage and death certs not give parents names? 
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Gali on Friday 07 October 11 23:06 BST (UK)
There is a public tree containing detail on Thomas and Bridget on Ancestry ...
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Rosie60 on Friday 07 October 11 23:26 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for all your help. I have had another look at his death details: he was a Railway Waggon Driver. His parents were Thomas Connelly and Mary Cairns. I have picked him up on the 1861 and 1871 census's but had more difficulty pinpointing him in the 1841 and 1851 census's. Thanks for the lead with the 1851 census..did you get the info from Ancestry or Scotlandspeople please. I'll have another search.

I contacted the Dundee library, hoping that his accident might have been reported in a local newspaper of the time, but there doesn't appear to have been a report.

Thank you again for all assistance, time and enthusiasm to help me.
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Gali on Friday 07 October 11 23:43 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie60,

I just used the census search on Ancestry to find the 1851 info ... 

If you are trying to locate the tree I mentioned on Ancestry the author has listed 'your Thomas' father surname as 'Conlin' ...

Is there an RCE (Register of Corrected Entries) attached to his death cert on SP?  Look for a red button on right hand corner of screen ... there often was for a death that occurred suddenly or without medical attention ...
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?1314

Did he die in hospital?  Dundee University have the medical records of an ancestor of mine who passed away in Dundee Royal Infirmary, might be worth a check ... archives[at]dundee.ac.uk
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Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Rosie60 on Monday 10 October 11 18:56 BST (UK)
Thank you again for all help and advice. Thomas's death extract says that he died from his injuries of '3 months'. So it seems unlikely that he suffered the injury several years before he died unfortunately. Perhaps, at the time, the accident just didn't seem to be too serious...there doesn't appear to be a newspaper report about it. Hence, the reason I want to try to see if there are railway archives that still survive.

Thanks for the tip with regards to contacting Dundee University re medical records. I have sent an email and await a reply.

Thanks also for finding a Thomas Connelly in the 1851 census. I had found another Thomas Connelly and presumed I had found him..so I need now to do a bit more research to see if I can decide which is the right one!

As always, thank you for your time and enthusiasm in trying to help me. 

Rosie
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: AdrianB38 on Wednesday 12 October 11 13:01 BST (UK)
A "Railway Waggon Driver" generally means someone who drove waggons (yes, occasionally spelt like that) around the streets - i.e. horse drawn wagons.

That being so, it wouldn't appear on any site for railway accidents, which in any case deal with notifiable accidents between trains - someone in a railway goods yard who didn't move fast enough to get out of the way of a train being shunted wouldn't appear on those railway accident sites. Nor would they appear in the newspaper unless it were sufficiently gory to be of interest to the "tabloid" press.
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Rosie60 on Tuesday 18 October 11 21:46 BST (UK)
Adrian,

Thank you for explaining what a 'Railway Waggon Driver' was. Does that possibily mean then, that my ancestor didn't work for a Rail Company at all,  but was just a driver of horse drawn wagons?

Thanks for any further advice.
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: AdrianB38 on Tuesday 18 October 11 22:53 BST (UK)
If it says "Railway Waggon Driver", then I'd reckon he drove railway waggons most of the time and would therefore most likely be a railway employee. The railway companies delivered most of the stuff they transported - doesn't mean a local company couldn't have a contract with a railway company for local haulage, but my gut feeling is that if they take the trouble to put the word "railway" in, then that's who employed him. Nothing is ever certain, but I'd be pretty certain that's the case.
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Rosie60 on Thursday 20 October 11 18:25 BST (UK)
Adrian,

Thanks for your help.

I think now I need to maybe contact the Dundee Archives to find information on Railway Companies...and if information regarding employees exist.

I so appreciate your help.

Rosie
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Elwyn Soutter on Thursday 20 October 11 19:49 BST (UK)
My understanding is that all the various railway records were given to the National Archives in Kew:

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/railway-staff.htm
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: AdrianB38 on Thursday 20 October 11 20:39 BST (UK)
The NAS (or whatever its current title is, sorry!) has records for Scottish railways. Even in England & Wales, while much went to Kew, other staff records can be found in county record offices.

Dundee seemed to be served by the North British Railway Co and the Caledonian Railway Co (plus a joint operation that I'm guessing was jointly worked by those two). According to David Hawkings' "Railway Ancestors" the situation doesn't look optimistic for staff related records for the "Caley" in that era, but the NB looks a bit more interesting. In particular there's BR/NBR/4 Pieces 2 to 11 at Edinburgh, described as "Accident Books 1869-1915". These just might cover all staff accidents, rather than statutory reports for train accidents. Worth a punt. There are other staff books for the NB, though they're described as "Central Section" or "Southern Section", etc and I've no idea what the NB's sections were....

(Check the NAS Catalogue - BR/NBR/4/2 at least is described as being held off-site.)

As you suggest, Dundee Archives may know a bit more.
Title: Re: Dundee Railways
Post by: Rosie60 on Thursday 20 October 11 20:48 BST (UK)
Thanks to both for your terrific suggestions. I'll follow up on all. They sound really positive leads and I might just break through this particular brick wall with your help.

Thanks for your time and interest.

Rosie