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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Kylie B on Friday 07 October 11 07:06 BST (UK)
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Hoping someone might have some inspiration on this one...!!
I have an Esther Taylor- born circa 1859 in Mille near Narrabri NSW
She married George Creighton in Coonamble in 1875- no ages recorded on marriage, but if her age on her children's birth is correct, she was a minor (16yrs old).
Esther and George had 5 children- all born in Coonamble- George Hector, Charles Richard, Edith, Emily Jane and Sarah.
George was a sawyer, apparently away from home with work a lot, and died in 1893 in Toowoomba QLD.
I have now found records of the children which shed a bit more light on the family...In May 1888, George Hector was arrested for stealing. According to his record, he was un-educated, under-fed and un-cared for, roaming the streets. He was sent to an Industrial School (the ship the Vernon). The other brother Charles was arrested shortly after- for roaming the streets un-cared for. He was too young to be sent to an industrial school, so became a Dependant child of the State, was taken into the Benevolent Society, and then fostered out. It would appear the same happened to Edith and Emily. I have not found any sign of Sarah.
Now on these children's records, they describe the parents as unfit and not loking after their children, being frequently drunk, and that Esther Creighton was frequently in custody for larceny, drunkeness and prostitution. She was definately in custody in May 1888 for stealing- when her children were picked up off the streets of Coonamble.
I would like to find out what was Esther's story- her time in custody and what happened when she got out and found her children gone- where did she go and what did she do....but here is the hitch.
The records of Coonamble gaol (where I assume she was in custody) are held by the state correctional services, not the archives, and they require proof of relationship...which means 8 birth and marriage certificates.
SO!! I am wondeirng if there is any other way of finding out more about Esther's criminal activities, and what became of her after 1888???
Hoping for a bright idea as I am stuck!
Kylie
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Hi there,
Are you also looking for further information about Esther's parentage? I presume it is not showing up on the m.c. ... I hope I am not side tracking you too much, but perhaps you may be interested in this thread that I prepared re the blanks on NSW m.c. for that era
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
Also, if under 21 years of age she would have needed consent to marry, so perhaps a look at the attachment at reply #12 of this thread will also help... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,557757.10.html
I will pull my thinking cap down harder re the court records for Esther, I gather you have contacted the NSW State Records Office to check their holdings.
Cheers, JM
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Hi,
Another thought .... those State Correctional Services records are more than 110 years old ... so there should not be any grounds for them to keep any restrictions on them. The usual reason defaults back to privacy for the living person/s mentioned in them.
From your profile I cannot see where you are based, but if you are a NSW resident, then you should contact your NSW member of Parliament and ask for their assistance in gaining access to the records. It is usual to provide a reason for seeking access, and "private study for family history purposes" is not usually a valid reason. A more suitable reason would be "these records were created more than 110 years ago, and thus any restrictions regarding the expectation to privacy for a living person has no possibility of being upheld. The individual was committed in the 1880's, as an adult. "
Cheers, JM
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http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/
Both CHARLES RICHARD and GEORGE HECTOR seem to have ww1 digitised service histories.
Have you seen these and are they, in fact your people?
CHARLES did not have a successful stint in the Army and says he is without Next of Kin. He nominated a friend in the NOK section.
The other, GEORGE, died of wounds. He nominted his wife ELLEN as NOK.
It seems the two, if it was them in these records, were estranged.
Sue
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Hi JM and Sue
I don't really understand why the records are restricted- as you say they are 110 years old. And I did contact them and clarify the individual would most certainly no longer be living (nor indeed their immediate family)- but the Correctional Services responded that this was their policy and a search could not be undertaken without proof of relationship.....didn't think of local member. Might give that a try.
I have seen George Hector's WW1 record- I am not sure if the Charles is mine as the age would be about by about 5 years.
However, I suspect the children might have been estranged as you suggested...I think at least 3 of them were fostered out in 1888, and if they were not returned to their mother (which I am not sure if they were or not), then they may have lost contact with one another. Interestingly, of the children, Edith lists her parents correctly on her marriage, Emily lists her father correctly but mother as someone else (hence my query of whether they returned to their mother or not), and George' s parents are listed incorrectly in the Army records.
JM- your post on the MC's was fascinating- thank you for that info! I have contacted the local parish in Coonamble in the past without success (they could not find the originals) as I am trying to find her parantage also, so I might try to local family hisotry group in case they have transcribed them.
I don't know where else to go looking- Esther seems to vanish about the time of her children going into the benevolent society, and I cannot find sign of her pre her marriage,either.
Stuck!!
Kylie
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There is the following possibilities, death registration, which you may already have.
18093/1950 RIPPINGALE Edith
(CRIGHTON) 68 YRS
Nth Sydney
Chatswood
There is a corresponding marriage Registration:
10433/1911 RIPPINGALE Walter H
CREIGHTON Edith
Registered at Petersham
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistory.htm
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;D possiblities .... RChat's NSW Resources Board has links to Sydney Benevolent Asylum covering admissions/discharges 1857-1900 and you can submit a request online at this link: http://www.sydneybenevolentasylum.com/
I have noticed several CREIGHTON children admitted around 2 June 1888, discharged just weeks later 12 July, eg Edith aged 10, Emily Jane aged 8 and Charles R aged 4.
Fingers crossed ! Alas, I did not spot any lass named Sarah.
Cheers, JM
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Hi Ennael and JM
That is the marriage and death of Edith Creighton, one of Esther and George's children. Her marriage lists her parents correctly as Esther and George and lists them both as deceased in 1911. I know George (father) died in 1893, but have not found Esther's death- still part of my search!!
I have copies of the Benevolent Society's records- they are the right children (minus Sarah who vanishes, and George Jnr who is admitted to the Vernon Industrial School). According to the Society's records, the 3 children were discharged to the boarding out officer of the State Dependant Childrens services. They tell me this means the children were fostered- sometimes temporarily, sometimes it turned out to be adoption (although this was not formally recognised as such at that time). They tell me the Dependant Children's registers at the State Archives will tell me more- who they were fostered to, if they returned to their natural parents, if they were apprenticed etc- but the archives do not offer a copy service unless I have the exact details (fische, page number etc), so I am stuck there too as I am not in Sydney. They did also say unless the children returned to their natural parents, there is often nothing about them in these records....so still may not tell me about Esther, but I do still want to track these records down somehow.
Have also tried TROVE incase there might be a mention in there....but no luck there either......
Kylie
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Oh :( I was so hoping that at least the three who were discharged on the same day were being collected by a family member and the three were together for at least the rest of their childhood ... It is not the easiest of tasks to find children fostered out in those decades. I do know though, that most kept their birth surnames when with their "new" families, and that in some cases, various Lodges provided the "new" families with some support, including medical fees if attending Lodge Doctors etc. Of course, the girls surnames would change on their marriages.
Sarah is very elusive, do you have transcript of her 1887 bc ... #29332 if so, what month was she born ... I am thinking perhaps she was still being nursed by Esther in May 1888, so perhaps Sarah remained in Coonamble while Esther was incarcerated. Perhaps Sarah may have been admitted to one of the Missions in the outback, their 'areas of responsibility' extended further than just the Aboriginal Protection Board functions....... Sometimes the children's records are findable in the depth of research done for the "Stolen Generation" reports.I found several of my very strict Protestant orphaned forebears out the Western Division of NSW, were admitted to the Sisters of Mercy orphanages in the 1880s.
http://www.mercy.org.au/whoweare/iterator.cfm?loadref=53&idx=2
I recall that the Dubbo family history group have fantastic archives covering much of the Western Divisons of NSW, particularly in the years before Federation.
http://familyhistory.dubbo-nsw.info/index.php
Cheers, JM
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Hi there,
Some questions ;)
:) Do you know if Esther had a middle name please?
:) Also from her mc, does it give the name of the person giving consent to her marriage to George Creighton?
:) And, any thoughts as to likely names for her parents please ...
I will try to find quiet time to go through my hardcopy records and notes for around Narrabri in the 1870's etc
Fingers crossed
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
They are certainly an elusive family...it took me years to discover George Snr's death in QLD.
Edith (possible middle name Evelyn) married on 14 Sept 1911- Edith was listed as born in Coonamble, daughter of George Creighton (carpenter and deceased) and Esther Taylor (deceased)
Emily Jane married on 7th July 1900 to Peter Baruffi (an Italian coalminer). She is listed as born in Coonamble, daughter of George Creighton (labourer and deceased) and Dorothy Whalan....now wondering if Dorothy was an adoptive mother??
Sarah was born on 16th March 1887- it states her parents to be George Creighton (labourer aged 43yrs from Manchester England) and Esther nee Taylor (from Mille near Narabri aged 28). It states Esther and George were married on 19th June 1875. 2 boys and 2 girls living siblings, no deceased siblings.
George and Esther's marriage certificate states they were married by rights of Church of England- on 19th July 1875. Listed as Bachelor and Spinster- NO ages recorded, NO birthplaces, NO parents names and NO fathers occupations. Witnessed by Peter Dodd and Andrew Cochrane. No no mention of a fathers permission, but no indication of being a minor either....but if she was 28 in 1887 then she was 15 or 16 when she married. This is consistent with Edith's birth certificate from 1882 which lists Esther as aged 23.
I have not seen any mention of a middle name for Esther.
And really no idea of possible parents....George's parents were Sarah and Joseph, so that leaves Charles, Edith, Emily and George's middle name of Hector as possibles.....
Kylie
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Hi there,
And no little CREIGHTONs with a Thomas or Maria as given names ;) so I may be way way off track but ...
Re Esther
I am being VERY Speculative, but have you considered :
1856 marriage NSW Thomas TAYLOR to Maria A MATTHEWS in the Early Church Records index at NSW BDM ... Line 119 of Vol 43B .... Church of England, with the code MC .... Bungonia, Goulburn, St Saviour’s (Co Argyle), Goulburn Plains, Lake Bathurst, Marulan.
From NSW BDM index, there’s a civil birth registered for an ESTHER TAYLOR with parents as Thomas and Maria A, registered in the Goulburn District, in 1859 ... #7675. There’s other likely siblings, younger and older than that Esther.
It is still a very long way from the Goulburn districts up to Narrabri, and would have been much more difficult to traverse back in the 1860's but "just in case ;) " ... on spec ... that's the closest I can find to Esther's likely birth...
PS, a THOUGHT after re-reading your post .... WHO REGISTERED SARAH's birth ....
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
I have seen this birth entry- and the other possible one to parents Amos and Mary in Berrima (they did have a child called Charles- clue or red herring??). But never had any idea of which one could be my Esther....both are a fair way from Narrabri...
You mentioned Maria's maiden name was Matthews....
Now talking of coincidences! The informant for Sarah's birth registration in 1887 was her father George, but witness present to the birth was....Mrs Matthews!! Could this be a relative of Esther's mother Maria??
Edith's birth was also registered by her father- witnesses that time (in 1882) were her father George Creighton, and Henry Stevens.
Hmmm- either a death for Esther to give some more info, or a handy parish record for her marriage wto George with some more info is really what I need isnt it??
Still pondering...Kylie
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There's a possibility that the Mrs Matthews was one of the locals, experienced in helping neighbours with birthing.... If it is the same Mrs Matthews, then I doubt she was related to the George Creighton. I have hardcopy info re a Mrs Matthews assisting with many deliveries and who was present when several of my forebears were born in the 1870s -1880s in those "back blocks"... I will try to dig my "Matthews" file from within ummm.... a few/several/ummm ::) ..... a number of folders ;D in my fh filing cabinet.
Cheers, JM
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Thanks JM
Always assumed Mrs Matthews was the local midwife- just got bit excited about the common surname.
So there are still 2 possible births for Esther- daughter of Amos and Mary or Thomas and Maria....
And still the issue of her apparantly being a minor when she married- without apparent parental consent. Surely a 15/16 year old girl could not have gotton away with claiming to be 21...and given she was honest on her children's births, someone must have been aware...
If we go the other way in history and try to find her later in life- any idea's there? She may have kept infant sarah with her when in custody in 1888, while her other children were fostered. But then what?? Her husband did not die for another 5 years- and he died in Queensland. Could she have followed him? Remarried after his death?
Still so many questions!!
Kylie
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Hi there,
Some thoughts....
Yes, it seemed likely to me that a Mrs Matthews was the local midwife, but from my notes re a Mrs Matthews I haven’t investigated much as to who her rellies were, except to eliminate her as a rellie of one of “my” lot.
George Creighton’s parents were Joseph Creighton and Sarah Hepworth (Qld BDM online #C1433 of 1893). From his d.c. does it give any further information about his parents, his wife, or his children? So perhaps Esther’s baby was named for George’s mum? I am of course speculating, but I did notice SMH 9 Jan 1907 a Sarah Creighton aged 65 of Bourke St Sydney knocked down .... Any relation to George’s Mum perhaps? http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14795475?
From the NSW BDM online index Esther’s daughter Emily Jane was born in 1880. You have her marriage as 7 July 1900 to Peter Baruffi, with her father noted as George Creighton, deceased and her mother as Dorothy Whalan.... So, are you sure this is the correct Emily Jane, and not some other lass with a deceased father named George. If you are sure this is your Emily Jane, then I agree, it is worth considering that Dorothy seems to have been her foster mum, at the earliest from July 1888. Also that perhaps Emily had lost contact with her mum and dad. So perhaps you need to find that Dorothy or at least her descendants.
Hence : From Emily’s 1900 mc ....
Who gave consent for this lass not yet 21 to marry, bearing in mind her father was deceased? Which church was the marriage at? Who were the witnesses? Where was Emily born?
Do you know where Emily and her husband settled? Did they have children, were any named Esther or George or Dorothy ?
For around $16 or so, you can get an official transcript of NSW BDM certificates, these contain all the information found on the official records, and can be sent by email as file attachments, usually arriving quicker than the NSW BDM official certificates. As there’s only those two registrations for 1859 for Esther Taylor births, perhaps you may need so spend some pennies shortly, but if I were you then I would wait until hearing back about the elusive information from her m.c.
I think the two boys found by Sue at the NAA WWI records could well be Esther’s, particularly if that is her daughter Emily citing her own mother as a Dorothy Whalan rather than as Esther Taylor... . (See #3 and #4, noting many of those who enlisted seem to have had troubles recalling their actual birth details, it was no where near as important an issue in those times as it is now. In fact it was not an important piece of information even about myself in my youth, it has only been with the introduction of photo ID that the d o b has taken on a significant daily role)
Well, that’s my thoughts, I sincerely hope you are not put out by my expressing these ...
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
Not put out at all- all thoughts and ideas gratefully welcomed!!
Re Emily- I am pretty sure this is the right daughter. Her marriage cert lists her as aged 22 (so just out if born 1880) and it states she was born in Coonamble. Since I am not aware of any other Creighton families in Coonamble, I am pretty sure she is the right girl. And no consent needed if she told them she was 22. I have not been able to find a Dorothy Whalan.... Emily was married at the Independant Presbyterian Church in Phillip St Sydney by George Hay. Witnesses were Robert Walker and E Walker. Not sure where Emily and husband Peter settled- no sign of them in NSW but there are a lot of Baruffi's in WA so possibly there?
George's death in QLD confirms his wife as Esther Taylor and 5 children- no mention of any of them being deceased at the time of his death. I have found a Miss E Creighton traveling as a passenger on board the Aramao from Brisbane to Sydney in Jul 1911- I suspect this may be Edith as she did not marry until Sept 1911 (but of course not sure). I have no other reason to think any of the family might have been in QLD with George- and havnt seen any sign of Esther in the QLD BDM indexes....
I am not sure when or how George Creighton arrived in Australia- but I have found him back in the UK, and his family remain there, so the Sarah Creighton you mentioned in 1907 seems unlikely to be related to George.
Cheers
Kylie
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I will have a good look for Emily's husband .... I think it would be unusual for an Italian to marry with Presbyterian rites. I have some off line resources for Sydney circa 1900, so fingers crossed please !
JM
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Perhaps a very long shot, but there is a file that has not yet been digitised and it is at the National Archives of Australia for E. Baruffi. 1947 - 1947. Their barcode is for the file 1879018. The index does NOT give any clues as to "E" being either male or female. There's also several different files for Peter Baruffi, perhaps there's several men with that name ???
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/index.aspx
(I am still looking through my NSW offline resources, definitely agree, another elusive is Dorothy Whalan :-X )
Cheers, JM
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Thanks JM
Will check out the file at National Archives site. Wonder if I can order a copy....
Thanks again for all your help- and have fingers and toes crossed!
Kylie
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Consolation Prizes for this evening
Sands Alphabetical Directory of Sydney
1900 Rev George Hay, (Pres) Petersham Rd, Marrickville
1905 Rev George Hay, 321 Elizabeth St Sydney, private residence Fletcher St Marrickville.
1910 Rev George Hay, 279 Elizabeth St Sydney, private residence 86 George St, St Peters.
(Consolation because there's no BARUFFI nor CREIGHTON nor WHALAN on the 1903 Electoral Roll for Marrickville)
Cheers, JM
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:) Thanks JM
YOu have got me thinking about the whole Italian marrying in a Presbyterian church mystery now too....
There are so many questions and holes in this family's story!!
Where to look next then?
Kylie
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Hi Kylie, I have been watching this post with interest and doing a little research on your Taylor Family. Have you seen the Taylor family from Tamworth?
They (Samuel & Elizabeth) had 8 children from 1859 -1872. NOT ONE them Named on their BC. Two died young in Tamworth Samuel 1875 and Mary 1863. It is difficult to discern the later deaths as many of the females would have had married names.
But there are several likely ones around the New England Region. Possible Church Records may be available via a search through Historical society records in Tamworth.
It is Possible your Esther is among them. Wild card option if all else fails.
Cheers
Neil
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Agh, so good to know that there is another set of eyes trying to help. I have NOT found anything further to add, despite looking, looking, looking.
I wonder if BARUFFI was perhaps altered to a more Anglo surname, but alas, I cannot think of what that would be. Emily was entitled to enrol to vote, but I have not found her as Baruffi in my hardcopy rolls for 1903 or my CD for 1913. Mind you, it is not an easy task for these are separated into their local sub-divisions within each electorate, and even pre WWI there were quite a few electorates just for NSW.
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Thanks very much Neil
Sounds like a pretty good possibility...would fit the lack of an appropriate birth, and is at least heading west more so than Berrima and Goulburn.
I might try and contact Tamworth and see if there are any church records avail- if there was no name on the birth rego, is it likely there was one recorded by the church??
MJ- I have no idea what Baruffi might have been anglicised to....her sister Edith lived around the hurstville area before her marriage in 1911 if that is of any help area-wise?
George- son of Esther (as opposed to husband) died in WW1. His widow lived in Temora, but they were married in Balmain.
Other son Charles Richard I am not sure what became of him....or daughter Sarah.
Cheers
Kylie
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I think that a name is always given when anyone is baptised, and it would be likely that that name would then be recorded in the Church registry :) My fingers are crossed that Neil's getting us back on track.... :) :) :)
I will try those Electoral Rolls again, especially around Hurstville, Balmain etc
JM
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Hi Kylie and Majm, Unusual for them not to be Christened at all but also a possibilty.
A clue may be the Church they married in if not a civil ceremony. See marriage under.
2699/1858 Husband TAYLOR SAMUEL, wife TAILBY ELIZABETH at TAMWORTH.
I dont think would be too many Tailby's in Tamworth in the 1860's.
Whoops should have checked first a heap of Ladies. But only Jane in Gunnedah 1875 and Elizabeth in Tamworth 1858. Possibly a large family of Taylors in Tamworth as seven of them married between 1858 and 1868, 5 in Tamworth and 2 in Gunnedah. ::)
Neil ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
NSW ER 1878 THE BOGAN .... ie Coonamble etc
Charles TAILBY, residence at Merri Merri Creek in the Dubbo Police District
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D cause I cannot find him in that electorate in 1870, so perhaps he had moved to the western division of NSW in the interim... ::)
Of course I should be looking in 1903 and around Sydney but .... I couldn't help myself ...
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Possibly a side track ...
NSW 1903 polling at Hurstville (electorate LANG) (one of 19 polling places in that electorate)
Matilda CREIGHTON, Cronulla St, at her domestic duties
Violet Alice CREIGHTON, Cronulla St, also at her domestic duties
AND
David CREIGHTON, "Mojmir", Queens Road, a coachman
(no Whalan or variations, sorry)
Cheers, JM
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Ok- now we are getting somewhere!!!
Merri Merri Creek is where George and Esther were apparently living when daughter Edith was born in 1882.
By birth of last daughter Sarah in 1887, residence was listed as Coonamble,
So now we have a Charles Tailby living in Merri Merri creek in 1878!
I couldnt find a birth of a girl to Samuel Taylor and wife Elizabeth Tailby on the NSW BMD's for 1859- closest was 1861...which is making Esther younger and younger....
Esther and George were married in an Anglican Church in Cooma- what would be the chances of Samuel and Elizabeth marrying and having their children possibly baptised in an Anglican church in Tamworth?
Kylie ::)
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And out around Narrabri there's Hephzibah Tailby in 1897 with her new babe and in 1873 there's Jane with her new babe.
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So the coincidences are adding up!!
Tailby's, and Taylors in the right area....need confirmation that Esther belonged to them though....
I wonder if there is a Tamworth family history group that might have parish records they could search since we don't know what denomination the Tailby's or Taylors were.
Any other Taylors or Tailby's around? Charles was name of one of Esther's sons, and Jane was a daughters middle name. No Samuel's or Elizabeths though...
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Hi, Ah Esther and George married in Coonabarabran in 1875 not Coonamble, not far as the Crow Flies so to speak. Coonamble is further to the Gunnedah Tamworth area though.
I will keep looking particularly for Sarah. Can I ask how did you know her name was Esther, other than on the Childrens BC? I ask because if she never had a Christian name or first name, she could call herself anything she found to her liking. Esther may only be the name she became familiar with. There was another Esther Taylor who died in 1850, same area!!!
Neil
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Long Post, Lots of different bits and pieces
From the OP
Hoping someone might have some inspiration on this one...!!
I have an Esther Taylor- born circa 1859 in Mille near Narrabri NSW
She married George Creighton in Coonamble in 1875- no ages recorded on marriage, but if her age on her children's birth is correct, she was a minor (16yrs old).
Esther and George had 5 children- all born in Coonamble- George Hector, Charles Richard, Edith, Emily Jane and Sarah.
From reply #29
Esther and George were married in an Anglican Church in Cooma
And from reply #32
Ah Esther and George married in Coonabarabran in 1875 not Coonamble ;D ;D
So, thanks Neil you are spot on correct, for the NSW BDM online Index gives the marriage as registered in the Coonabarabran District and ref #2332 (1875). Note to JM, check the Indexes !
Some more thoughts ...
:)As the marriage was not at Coonamble, ::) ::) .... I am :-[ :-[ ;) Sorry Kylie that I forgot the first rule in family history ... Check all the information given ! I should have thought your reply #4 through
contacted the local parish in Coonamble in the past without success (they could not find the originals) . Of course they could not find the originals, these should be at Coonabarabran, I should have checked !!!
BUT, here's some good news : ;D
NSW ER 1870 THE BOGAN
George CREIGHTON, residence, Castlereagh River, Coonamble.
John TAYLOR, residence, Dahomy, Castlereagh River.
George Alfred TAILBY, leaseholder, Gelargumbone, Castlereagh River (I presume this to be today’s Gulargambone NSW 2828)
GREVILLES 1875 Directory
John TAYLOR, farmer, Woodland, Coonabarabran
Mark TAYLOR, farmer, Mistletoe, Coonabarabran
Mary TAYLOR, settler, Mistletoe, Coonabarabran
Samuel MATTHEWS, labourer, Namoi St, COONAMBLE
George TAILBY, grazier, Golaragambone, COONAMBLE (Gulargambone ???)
From George Hector CREIGHTON’s 1888 papers
“Wandering ab out the streets of Coonamble not having any lawful visible means of support his father & mother being in gaol” “born 8th Aug 1877, Coonamble CE” “Information as to name and birth obtained from the district Registrar Information as to religion obtained from boy’s mother” ... and the mother is doing a sentence of 2 months for Larceny from a dwelling” (There are other comments given by the police with claims of Esther associating with men who were not her husband). ;) A Question please, Kylie .... I wonder if Esther could read/write ... Kylie, did Esther sign or make her mark when she married George, please
“They (JM notes this is Esther and George) have five children in all, three of whom were sent to the Industrial schools on the 29th May last. One is an infant in arms. " (Again this is from George Hector CREIGHTON's May 1888 papers admitting him to the Vernon Training Ship in Sydney Harbour.)
JM notes, this infant would be Sarah, and as she was an infant in arms, she was thus NOT admitted to the Industrial Schools ... so most likely she was with her mother at that time, in the Coonamble Gaol, as there are three names (but NOT Sarah's) at the admissions for the Benevolent Society reply # 8 & 10
Conditions at Coonamble gaol (not good, :( )
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13432489 SMH 9 April 1879
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13524443 SMH 17 Nov 1882
;) Sadly, I have not found any trace of the BARUFFI family nor of Esther Creighton, in my NSW off line resources. Sorry.
BUT My fingers are crossed that the Coonabarabran C of E will have the originals of the 1875 marriage cert, and from that we will learn the names of Esther’s parents and her age at marriage, and her father’s occupation, and the same for Esther’s husband, George.
http://www.ourchurchlink.com/profile/view.action?id=5095 There's snail mail, phone and email details at that link ;D
Cheers, JM
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Hi all, Just a thought!.... If Mum was declared an unfit Mother little Sarah would have been taken either as a Ward of the State or into a situation like a Church school or Orphanage and possibly adopted out...I am no expert but it seems all the kids were taken off her hands and George shot through.
Lots of supposition, a little light on facts but worth checking ??? ::)
Hey great information on that last post Mjm. If she is and it sure looks like the same one then the Church records are crucial to finding out the facts.
Its a tangled up family Kylie but there's some great people on RC and it will come out. Everybody leaves some evidence ;)
Neil
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Re Sarah ....
Well, may I refer back to #8 and my thoughts regarding the Sisters of Mercy and the Dubbo Family History Group's records .... and various Stolen Generations reports.
I think in NSW an Aboriginal Protection Board was established in around 1885, and they took in children/infants and raised them as though they were orphaned. I am fairly sure that they did not just take in children who were known to be of Aboriginal descent, but, at least in the early years after they were established, they simply took in children who, from the point of view of the civil law, had no visible means of support. I realise I am speculating, but I am sure you should at least consider that perhaps Sarah was taken into care and may have been raised by the Sisters of Mercy or by one of the other Church based organisations operating in those western districts in those times.
Cheers, JM
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Hi, Ah Esther and George married in Coonabarabran in 1875 not Coonamble,
And from reply #32
Ah Esther and George married in Coonabarabran in 1875 not Coonamble ;D ;D
So, thanks Neil you are spot on correct, for the NSW BDM online Index gives the marriage as registered in the Coonabarabran District and ref #2332 (1875). Note to JM, check the Indexes !
Some more thoughts ... :) As the marriage was not at Coonamble, ::) ::)
They were married at COONAMBLE it is a transcription error showing COONABARABRAN on the NSW online indexes.
All references on the MC show Coonamble.
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Thanks Merlin for uploading that snip. So that's another error on the NSW BDM index ! .... There's many others of course. Do you have any other sections of that MC please?
They were married at COONAMBLE it is a transcription error showing COONABARABRAN on the NSW online indexes.
All references on the MC show Coonamble.
Did Esther sign or make her mark?
Compulsory civil education of NSW children came about in the late 1870's or early 1880's. So perhaps George Hector's admission papers to the training ship Vernon indicating he had no reading and writing skills when he entered, could also suggest that his siblings may also have not had much formal education.
Cheers, JM
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Hi Merlin,
I am interested in what is recorded on that m.c. in the area underneath the entries in columns 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Also, I am interested in a transcription of the contents of columns 6 and 8, and I recognise the snip you have uploaded is for columns 2 and 3.
Cheers, JM
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Hi everyone
Thanks so much for all the info everyone!!
JM- I have the actual MC and it does state the marriage was in Coonamble as per Merlin's post- the index reference to Coonabarrabran is wrong. Column for birthplace is blank, column for ages is blank, father and mothers names is blank and fathers occupation is blank. It lists George as a sawyer and Esther as a domestic servant. Lists George's place of residence as Nelgowrie or Belgowrie, Coonamble, and lists Esthers place of residence as Coonamble. Witnesses were Peter Dodd and Andrew Cochrane.
And that was my mis-type in #29 with Cooma- sorry!
Esther made her mark on the marriage, George signed his name.
According to the Benevolent Society records for Edith, Emily and Charles- none of them could read or write and had receoved no education. Same said for George Hector on the Vernon records as you mentioned.
Esther is the name she used on her marriage and on the childrens BC's- but since we have not found a birth, as Neil mentioned, I guess she could have just picked that name.....that will make her even harder to find!
It does seem that the Taylor and Tailby families were around the area at the time though, so seems Neils findings in Tamworth are the best bet as yet.
I have sent off a query to Dubbo about the Sisters of Mercy re Sarah.
Heard back again from Coonamble church and they cannot find the register for Esther and George's marriage....they say they will keep looking, but that doesnt sound promising.....
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Seems the avenues are narrowing and the misleads are growing. ???
Not so clever after all. Duh :P
Umm, Marriage of a Sarah Dorothea Creighton in Qld in 1911
1911/C3109 Husband (Jennings Thomas Richard) Wife (Creighton Sarah Dorothea)
At least right age. there are no births registered to them up to 1914 and obviously can't check NSW >:(
Neil
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;D
Right, so where are the Coonamble registers .... It was and still is against both Church and Civil LAWS for these to ever be deliberately destroyed... Two were used concurrently, both to be kept separately and in safe places. In C of E, usual for one to be in the Priest's room at the Church Building and one to be kept in the Manse. In both instances fire proof safes were usually installed.
Kylie, some more questions ::)
;) is your Coonamble source saying that only George and Esther's marriage record is missing OR are both those registers missing?
;) Have you asked the Coonabarabran C of E if they are holding those registers (perhaps leading on from the transcript error on the NSW BDM index,) I wonder if the SAG transcribers were using Church registers obtained from Coonabarabran for the Coonamble marriages !!!
:) Have you contacted the Diocese HQ at Bathurst to ask where the Coonamble registers are currently located, and if they can shed any light on that 1875 marriage?
Also, I have looked for Esther under HESTER, (a known variant) but alas, nought there too.
Re any children for Thomas Richard JENNINGS .... there's some RChatters with access to NSW birth rego to 1918 ;D ;D
re TRJ perhaps he enlisted for WWI .... http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/index.aspx
Also, there's that possible mention of "Dorothy" again, as in Dorothy Whalan .... IF that's Esther's youngest daughter, Sarah Dorothea CREIGHTON .... ;D ;D in Queensland...
Cheers, JM
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Also, that Qld 1911 marriage was on 18 April 1911.... ;D
ADDING
1960 NSW BDM index d.c. registration #26219 :
Registered at Rockdale .... Sarah JENNINGS, 84 years, (so possibly NOT Esther's dau) died at Kogarah, but father's given name GEORGE, mother's given name UNKNOWN ...
JM
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Hmmm- maybe if the children were fostered/adopted, their adoptive mother or carer was Dorothy Whalan...although that wouldnt explain the middle name of Esther's daughter.
Apparently the register that would include George and Esthers marriage is 'missing'...wondered if I should contact the local Family history group to see if they might have transcribed them?? Would that be worth a try?
I do think the Tamworth Taylors and Tailby's look promising, but we need that church record.....
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Suggestions
1. Email C of E at Coonabrarbran and ask them to check if they have (or have a record of having had) Coonamble's register OR do they know who you can ask
2. Email C of E at Bathurst (Diocese HQ) AND ask them the same
3. Email the various family history groups explain what the NSW BDM have supplied you with, and can they help (or know where/who you can ask) to fill in the blanks
4. Find another mc for Coonamble for 1875 or there abouts for a (make a good guess) possible family member, or for the witnesses to Esther and George's marriage .... You are aiming at assuming Esther had siblings (unusual for a lass born c 1859 in NSW NOT to have siblings) ..... You are looking for a lass YOUNGER than Esther, and hoping that the bit on that newer mc will include the name of the person giving consent to the marriage (I am presuming it will NOT be a reconciled mc, thus of little value to family history, but that ONE clue could help CAUSE .... perhaps George Creighton or Esther Creighton were witnesses to that marriage ;D ;D or perhaps Esther's parents were witnesses (you still won't be able to prove that relationship BUT it is one step closer). I call that the LEAP OF GUESSIMATING rule .... ::) :-X cause it really is NOT the 'right' way to research.
Re middle names ... and to expand that pool .... sometimes the godparents names are included in the child's name !!!
I think you need to get to the NSW SRO to look at the Deposition registers to find further info about the children, and perhaps to find Esther's admission to Coonamble Gaol etc. I don't think there is much more available from the armchair ;)
PS, Next NSW BDM mc, MY TIP .... Well I would be into trying to save some pennies and get an official transcript, same info as the real deal, and you may need to get several more ...
Cheers, JM
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Hi there
Ok- enquiries now sent to Coonamble Anglican church again, to Coonabarrabran Anglican church, Dubbo re sistes of mercy, dubbo goal (just in case).
Will find contact details for local family history societies and give them a try, and also looking into if there is a researcher I can pay to visit and get copies of the Dependant childrens register entries for the children.
No chance with Coonamble gaol records as these are still held by dept of corrections and need 8 BMD certs to prove relationship...
As for possible marriages- these are what I have found...any ideas??
Which one first??
2805/1878 HERBERT GEORGE TAYLOR SARAH J COONABARABRAN
5729/1882 FERGUSON JAMES TAYLOR ALICE EDITH COONABARABRAN
6067/1883 MASON HENRY G B TAYLOR ELLEN COONABARABRAN
That was a great idea JM ;D- couldnt believe it when the Coonabarrabran ones came up :o - so fingers crossed now!!
Kylie
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Hi there,
My vote :
Sarah first ... (least gap between possible birth and likely marriage = need for consent)
And I have been looking at registration numbers at Coonabarabran in 1875 .... ummm and noticed that there could be something odd .... I cannot find any for Coonamble ... it is as though an entire decade or more passed between marriages at Coonamble (I picked groom name of John, and then on next attempt I picked SMITH for a surname) ... It is guesstimating at its worst, sorry...
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM and Neil and Merlin
Have sent off for Sarah Taylor's Coonabarabran marriage transcript- looks like it might be a wait of 3 weeks or so.
Have found someone who may be able to go and view the Dependant Children's registers for me for a fee- in next 2-4 wks.
So lots of feelers out there....now we wait.
Merlin- are you also tracing this family since you have Esther and George's marriage cert??
I will be back in touch as soon as I hear anything from anywhere!!
And thanks again so much for all the wonderful help- I hope we get there :D
Kylie
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Hello! Time for an update:
Heard from Coonamble- still no sign of PR for Esther and George...some confusion as to where ledgers are.
No response from Coonabarabran parish.
Coonamble Family History- checked court records, cemetery records for me- no sign of any of my Creightons or Taylors. They advise a decade or so of Coonamble's parish records were logged in Coonabarabran....so back to waiting for the parish there to reply.
Heard from Sisters of Mercy - they have no record of a Sarah Creighton amongst their children.
Got Sarah Jane Taylors marriage from 1878....and it is exactly like Esthers. No ages, no place of birth, no parents- nothing useful at all!!!! Only fact beyond names recorded were that the bride normally resided in Caigan (District of Coonabarabran) and her occupation was Domestic servant (same as Esther) and grooms occupation was Waggoner. Married by the same person as Esther and George- a Henry Dicker. Googled him and he was priest in Coonamble around that time.
SO!!!! Seems to me we are not going to get any further without some contact from Coonabarabran parish clerk- and in the hopes they have the Coonamble registers for the time. And they have not responded.....
Kylie
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Hi and many thanks for the update.
Some more thoughts ...
;) try the family history group at Coona, they should be aware of those Parish Registers, fingers crossed they have met this type of enquiry before today ;D
Mr Geggle's search engine gives me these possible links ;D
http://www.heritageaustralia.com.au/links.php?browse=c&id=512
http://www.nnsw.com.au/coonabarabran/history.html
http://www.truelocal.com.au/business/coonabarbran-family-history-group-inc/coonabarabran
I do NOT recommend ordering any further mc for that area in that time frame until the parish registers are located :-X
Perhaps the Shire offices/Visitor Info Centre/Library etc may have some knowledge of the location of the parish registers? http://www.warrumbungle.nsw.gov.au/
And yes, I agree we are not going to get much further without learning of the location those parish registers...
Fingers and toes are crossed for you and for everyone interested in their own family history who has forebears who were married in that district in that era...
Many Cheers,
JM PS RChat is running very slow here today
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Among the Australians who served on the Western Front during WWI was a chap, born at Mudgee, and who, when he enlisted was a Station Hand at Coonabarabran. He was George Albert HERBERT, and his father, George HERBERT was his next of kin. His parents were George and Sarah Jane Herbert, of Coonabarabran, New South Wales.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=20444
LEST WE FORGET
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Thanks JM
Looks like Sarah and George had quite a large family.
Still waiting to hear from Parish and family history groups out that way- really hoping someone knows where these ledgers are- and that they do turn out to have the info we are looking for. WOuld be such a shame if it turned out Henry Dicker didnt bother recording parents, ages etc....
ALso still waiting on Dependant Childrens Registers check re the children- long shot but maybe there will be more info on Esther in there....
Kylie
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Hi there,
At the Coonabarabran General Cemetery, Anglican Old Portion, plots 11, 12
“In Loving Memory of
My dear Wife & our Mother
SARAH JANE HERBERT,
Died 1st Sept 1905
Aged 46 Years.
Though lost to sight,
In Memory Dear.
Also EDWIN THOMAS
Son of above
Died 16th Oct 1900, aged 14 years.
NSW BDM births Edwin T Herbert registered at Gulgong to George and Sarah J #27324
NSW BDM deaths Sarah J Herbert, registered at Coonabarabran 1905 # 8537 parents recorded as Richard and Mary
NSW ER 1903 GWYDIR, polling at Coonabarabran, all with surname HERBERT
Amy Jane, of Coonabarrabran , domestic duties
George, of Woodland Valley, farmer
George Albert, of Coonabarrabran, labourer
Sarah Jane, domestic duties, of Woodland Valley
William John, of Woodland Valley, labourer
That roll as 545 people listed so I have looked for any with given name Esther
Esther McEwan, domestic duties, , no others with that spelling of the surname , HOWEVER, I did notice a George Busby McEwen, an auctioneer. Also, none Creighton nor Whalan etc.
So, now to look to see if there’s any clues re Richard and Mary Taylor giving any link to Esther Creighton nee Taylor.
;) Rev Henry Dicker was required to keep his registers safe, and also to record ALL the details :-X.
Cheers, JM.
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Re Richard Taylor ::) that's a conundrum, there's too many on the indexes, and those names are from the online index for NSW BDM deaths, so the names are only as reliable as a) the informant's own knowledge and b) the interpretation of the handwritten summary by the transcriber who prepared the record for the index to be updated.
I shall be patient and keep fingers crossed. :-X
Cheers, JM
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Hi There
Seems Richard and Mary Taylor were from the Gouburn area....so a long way from Narrabri.
Then again, their daughter Sarah seems to have made her way to to Coonabarabran...and one of Esther's son's had the middle name Richard. They married in 1857- we think Esther was born around 1859. No likely birth to the couple in 1859-ish- they had a son in 1858, and Sarah in 1860.
Only marriage I can find for a George McEwan is one in 1896 to Celina Sly. And an Esther Maclean marrying George McEwan in 1892- but this is before George Creighton died so shouldnt be my Esther..nothing else.
Still stuck!!!
COme on parish registers- please turn up!!!!!!!
Kylie
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Hiyas,
With the Esther b1859 to Thomas and Maria in Goulburn area,,,,there is a marriage for an Esther TAYLOR in 1907 to a William HENWOOD nearby,,,then a death in 1937 for Esther HENWOOD parents Thomas and Maria..
Could Esther have possibley come out of gaol, found her children gone,,then moved back 'home' (Goulburn area) to marry late in life????
I see no children to William and Esther to 1910 (doesn't mean much)
Goulburn Diocese was quite large back in 1859 and may have come close to the Coona areas.
Bored
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I wonder if the Esther Taylor who married in 1907 to William Henwood (NSW BDM ref #5831) had been previously married and if Taylor was her nee name?
Reason: I can see a marriage 1879 COPP = TAYLOR, NSW BDM #2560
NSW SRO online index gives a divorce file of 1906 for Esther Copp (petitioner) v Alfred John Copp (respondent) no co-respondent named. # 5660
And an online submitted tree gives that Esther (Taylor/Copp/Henwood) as born 1859 to Thomas Taylor and Maria Ann Mathews ( ;D ;D Umm, now what was the surname of the midwife? it was Mathews !) Also, that same submitted tree has Esther's d o d as 18 June 1937 at Mayfield NSW. (Although I cannot find any sources noted on the submitted tree, NSW BDM gives 1937 Esther Henwood d.c. as #8042)
Cheers, JM
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Ah Well,,
Was just a thought...
Seen her mentioned earlier in the thread....and all the other stuff mentioning Goulburn...
Kylie,,,,have you checked NLA to see if any of the indexes you need are there?
I'll be going tomorrow...
Bored
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Goulburn Diocese was quite large back in 1859 and may have come close to the Coona areas.
I didn't know that. I had understood that the Goulburn diocese dates from around 1863 and that on its formation it extended to the south and the west, but not to the north.
Bored, as you are going to the NLA, may I ask please if perhaps you could check their records re the boundaries? Their holdings include the 1886 maps that are on the RChat Resources Board at this link
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,538663.0.html
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM,
No need..
I actually have been transcribing the Canberra/Goulburn Diocese Records for quite some time...
It may have not gone far north but when you put into play how far other Diocese came South??
Goulburn Diocese was one of the earliest here in the Monaro area...
Records dating back to 1840's...
How far did the Coona records go south?
Wasn't uncommon for people to be born one area and baptised in another.
Bored
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COme on parish registers- please turn up!!!!!!!
Have you heard anything further re those registers please
Cheers, JM
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HI there
I am very sorry to say I think we are at a dead end- just heard back from Diocean office, and they do not hold records for the parishes. They advised to contact the parish directly- and if they could not find them, then possibly they have been damaged and lost over time. They also had no explanation for the apparent Coonabarabran/Coonamble crossover. :-\
Coonamble still having no luck finding the records. :-\
No response as yet from Coonabarabran parish- or family history group (but I think they meet later in the month, so perhaps will hear then).
So final option I am also still waiting on with high hopes is the Dependant children's registers.....
???Kylie
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Not a dead-end Y E T ;) but the hurdles are oversized and very non standard ;)
The Diocese of Bathurst was established in around 1870 and geographically covers about a 1/3 of NSW to the north-west of Bathurst. There's 34 parishes in that particular Diocese, one of them should have the registers.
Another thought ... consider emailing the Diocese again please, and ask for information as to the Rev with the view to checking each of those parishes for his register and/or his diary. He may have moved to another Diocese, there are 7 covering NSW and more than 20 in Australia.
I think this would be the same Rev Henry Dicker, and I note that Appin is in the Diocese of Sydney.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14819547 SMH 8 Jan 1907. He was 79, and had been at St Marks for 25 years, so he left Coonamble several years after Esther was married.
Adding Kylie, just in case here is the link to all the NSW C o E Diocese. My fingers are crossed you don't need to contact each one.
http://anglicansonline.org/australia/states/new-south-wales.html
Cheers, JM
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I am speculating, but from this newspaper cutting, there's a logical reason for the registers being at Coonabarabran
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28413439 SMH 25 September 1872
MARRIAGES.-The undermentioned officiating ministers have been registered for the celebration of marriages : Church of England (Diocese of Bathurst) : The Rev. Henry Dicker, Coonabarabran.......
Cheers, JM
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Hi Kylie,
Possibly some clues re the movements for Rev Dicker, and the Coonamble C of E during the 1870's.
Christ Church, Coonabarabran and St Barnabas Cooonamble 1872-1876 (Diocese of Bathurst)
Coonabarabran alone 1876-1879
At Saints Cathedral, Bathurst 1879-1881
Appin, Wilton, Nepean Towers 1881-1907 (Diocese of Sydney)
Source : Sydney Diocese Directories.
And parts of a paragraph or two from the 109 pages of "Thematic history of Coonamble Shire" at this link:
www.coonambleshire.nsw.gov.au/_.../Coonamble_Shire_Thematic
"Anglican services were first conducted by priests visiting from Mudgee,Coonabarabran and Dubbo. In the early 1870s the Rev. Henry Dicker of Coonabarabran periodically conducted services in the dining room of McCullough’s Exchange Hotel. Services were also held in private homes including the residence of Arthur Willmott who had acquired an ‘organ or harmonium’. The first Anglican rector was the Rev. W. Coombes who was appointed to the Parish of Coonamble in 1877 . The Church of St Barnabas was constructed in 1876 on the corner of Namoi and Aberford Streets. It had a slab walls and a shingle roof and replaced ‘a very rough, temporary building, which had been walled and roofed with bark’. This building had been constructed by ‘Messrs Christian, Broad and Cochrane’. Coombes was followed by the Reverend George Oakes who rode from Bathurst to Coonamble in 1879 to take up his post. George Oakes travelled the district administering services in homesteads and woolsheds. ....."
Cheers, JM
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hi JM
Thanks so much for all this- I am going to recontact Coonabarabran parish and Diocean office again right now. FIngers crossed!!!
Interesting that is says there was not a CofE church in Coonamble til 1877- wonder where Esthers marriage ceremony actually took place!!
I am also wondering if there would have been a local newspaper at that time (the FHS do not have newspapers back that far). Thinking if there was there might be a notice re the marriage, or the childrens births, or even Esthers arrests.....
And still waiting on the Dependant Childrens registers.
Fingers still crossed ;)
Kylie
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Many of those early newspapers are held by the National Library in Canberra, just not digitised ;D
Cheers, JM
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I am getting the feeling I am just not meant to trace this family....
Just heard back from researcher about Dependant Children's REgisters- the registers for the Creighton children has not survived and there are no alternative records that might tell me what happened to the children or if they eventually were returned to their mother.
Coonabarabran parish has discovered they do not hold the PR's back as far as 1875, Coonamble do not have registers for that time, and the diocean office advise if the local parishes do not have the PR's then they may have been lost.
No luck with chasing for access via Dept of Corrective Services to Coonamble gaol records to see what is reported of Esther there.
COntacted National Library who hold newspapers for that region- but not back as far as the 1880's- they have suggested contacting State Library.
Inspiration anyone???? ???
Kylie
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Hi Kylie getting a bit tough isn't it. :'( Gees lost the PR's, I don't have much faith in them, excuse the pun. :-[
Have you tried the Dubbo family History Society, they MAY hold some records or know where to lay their hands on them. ???
Neil ;)
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Hi Neil
Yes - I know. When JM said there were always 2 copies, I thought that sounded pretty safe! Och well...
I have contacted Coonamble FHS- no luck there. No reply from Coonabarabran. HAdnt thought of Dubbo so I will give them a try!
Thanks ;)
Kylie
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Hi there
Are there any census's for the Coonamble region- or residents lists or the like- that someone can check to see when George Creighton appears in the area??
I am trying to work out then he arrived- in the hopes it might give me some clue about Esther. Did they even meet in Coonmable, or did they meet elsewhere and move there to marry (because she was under age??) ???
Looking for ANY other options for clue's.
Have tried contacting the parishes JM mentioned (Bathurst and Nepean Towers) to see if perhaps Henry Dicker took his registers with him as one last try to find that marriage- FINGERS AND TOES CROSSED ;)
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Unfortunately the Coonamble news paper appears to have begun in 1885 :( according to the NLA catalogue. I had a look for Walgett and Gilgandra newspapers but the same story - they began much later than the marriage you are after. Bourke and Narrabri seem like the next nearest towns but the distances are so great that I wonder whether they would report a wedding in Coonamble - what do you think?
I note also that there is a museum at Coonamble
http://www.coonambleshire.nsw.gov.au/VisitingCoonamble/Museum.html
And a family history group is mentioned:
http://www.coonambleshire.nsw.gov.au/Community/Coonamble.html
Also some TAYLORS at Coonamble cemetery. However this site has few records of unmarked graves - 2 links
http://www.austcemindex.com/cemetery-inscriptions.php?id=21
http://www.austcemindex.com/cemetery.php?id=20
Anglican church history:
http://www.bathurstanglican.org.au/Parishes/Coonamble.html
The first church building in Coonamble was built from bark stripped from trees near the creek. In 1872 the first priest was H. Dicker. The second church building was erected in 1877 and pulled down in 1909. The current building was commenced on 12.9.1908 and consecrated on 31.10.1909.
Judith
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Hi Judith
Thanks so much for that.
1885 would possibly have mentions of Esther and George's illicit activities that appear to have had them in police custody quite frequently as the last date I have is in 26th May 1888- Charles Richard Creighton (child) was before the Coonamble bench for wandering the streets and his report states his father is currently away working and his mother is currently serving a 2 month sentence for larceny. His brother George Hector Creighton was also in gaol on this date according to his report. Is this possible for someone to check??
I have previously been in touch with the Family history group who cannot find mention of Esther and George in their records.
I have contacted the museum and they do not hold any records this early.
I wonder if Narrabri would be worth considering- according to her children's birth registrations, Esther was born in Mille near Narrabri....if she was from Narrabri, could the wedding have possibly been reported there?? Can anyone check this please?
Kylie
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Kylie - I'll have a look next time I'm at NLA but probably not till next week now.
The difficulty with the newspapers is that they are photographed in date order which means trawling through them all. However, having the date of Charles being up before the magistrate is helpful. Most country papers do have Court Reports although sometimes not every appearance is noted. Nowadays, of course, information about children in Court is not published at all.
As for weddings it is usually those of high-ish social standing whose weddings are reported - I have seen some which even include the gifts given. Would be awful if you'd only given a rubbish gift and it was noted in the local paper for all to see. :o Some country papers have a lot of local social 'doings' and some have none. Hopefully we might be lucky!
Judith
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Thank you SO much Judith!
I have everything crossed we will be lucky this time- so many dead ends with poor Esther and her family.
Kylie
PS Yes it would be awful if you got horrid gifts and your big day was captured for posterity and for generations they knew what you got as gifts!! Then again, I guess the gifts are a good idea of what the gift-givers thought of you?!?!
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I may have missed it, but none of the posts on this thread seem to have considered exactly where or what "Mille" is.
Mille Creek is a short creek and associated valley, which flows into the upper Manilla River right at the town of Barraba. It isn't really all those close to Narrabri, and rather inaccessible from there because of the mountains in the way, the natural line of communication is south to Tamworth and North to Bingara.
One of the first selectors in Barraba was Edward Taylor, and the location of his selection is in the North Barraba lands parish close to Mille Creek. Between the creek and the asbestos mine.
This article on Trove might potentially be of interest
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/128588622
The other tern left unstoned in this thread, is the identity of the marriage witnesses Andrew Cochrane and Peter Dodd. Often they are just cronies of the clergyman, but also often, they are brother-in-laws or other relatives.
Andrew T Cochrane is an interesting one, as he appears to have had a child with one woman at Coonabarabran in 1879 and a child with a different woman at Coonamble in 1880, and no marriage to be seen. There's about five different spellings of Cochrane, mind you.
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Hi Dave
This is fascinating info- thank you!!
I had looked for Mille on maps and asked at the family history society but no one seemed to know where it was.
Now we do!
And the original prospector was a Mr Edward Taylor- do you know anything more about him?? Could Esther have been his daughter I wonder- one of the 12 children mentioned in the newspaper article???
IF the property was quite isolated, perhaps Esthers birth was never registered....
I will now try to do some more investigating with the location of Barraba instead and see if I have any more success.
Thank you so much again- Oh and I have tried looking into possible family connections with the marriage witnesses, but no luck as yet. So many spellings of Cochrane as you say though, has been hard to narrow down....
Kylie