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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Doddie on Friday 07 October 11 06:27 BST (UK)
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My late grandfather was awarded the Silver War Badge during the First World War and I want to try and see what details are contained in the rolls for the badge. A few years back I contacted the Imperial War Museum and somone there very kindly interpreted some of the abbreviations/coded references listed on my grandfather's medal index card. This is how I learnt that he had been awarded the Silver War Badge. Prior to this I was unaware of the badge's existence. I have since discovered that usually a medal index card contained a reference to the badge as 'SWB' followed by a number. This apparently can be used to track the relevant medal in the rolls. My grandfather's card does not contain such specific details. Amongst his war service papers however I came across a copy of a filled in War Office form acknowledging the receipt of a "badge and certificate". This paperwork icluded a certificate number. Does anybody know if this number can be used to trace the details relating to his award of the Siver War Badge?
Regards
Doddie
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Hi Doddie :)
My grandfather got one too - it was not an "award" as such. The SWB "was issued in the United Kingdom [and Empire - my grandfather was Australian] to service personnel who had been honourably discharged due to wounds or sickness during World War I."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_War_Badge
I'm not an expert, but I think the paper trail leading to a SWB would simply be the soldier's personnel dossier. For British soldiers these can be hit and miss as so many records were lost during the Second World War.
Cheers
Prue
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The Silver War Badge rolls are held at the National Archives and contain very little information about the man concerned. Typically an entry will have a man's name, rank and number, the date of the award, the battalion he was attached to when he was awarded the badge [which may not have been the same as the battalion he fought with as many injured men were re-assigned to the depot battalion when repatriated], the reason for the award - sickness or wounds, whether the man had served overseas or not and, occasionally, his age - and that's about it.
The award of a SWB will normally be recorded on the man's medal card - usually at the bottom of the card and looking something like this: " Roll/CC/103/45" - which is the reference to the actual roll and enables you to find the correct entry.
jds1949
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Hi Pru and jds1949, thanks for your replies. I have a sneaking suspicion that without a roll code - which as you say, jds1949 - should probably appear on my grandfather's medal index card, I have little chance of tracing any details from the National Archive records. The badge itself I think was lost many moons ago. The person at the Imperial War Museum who helped me initially figure out that my grandfather was given the badge as a result of examing some other information on the index card ("AO 29 / 19" in the 'cause of discharge' section of the card). Also, it does indeed state that he was in the "Cam'n Hdrs Depot" when the badge (and his two medals) were issued. Does "depot" mean a general collective battalion or is it possible to find out more specific details?
Regards again
Doddie
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My understanding is that each regiment had a "home" or replacement battalion based in the UK which looked after the men in training or recovering from sickness/wounds. The best place, in my opinion, for a general introduction to all of this is here:
http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/grandad.htm
I'm pretty sure that "AO 29/19" translates as Army Order no.29 1919 - one of an ongoing series of general orders dealing with the discharge of soldiers at the end of the war.
jds1949
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The certificate number should be the same as the number stamped on the badge.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~cjmorton/service/research/medal_rolls/swb.htm - note that they were still being issued after the Armistice.
Here is a link that shows an actual example of the list - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=169579&st=0&p=1649680&hl=+silver%20+war%20+badge&fromsearch=1&#entry1649680
You will have to register to do your own searches - there are 7 pages of questions about the SWB on the Great War Forum. You should post the number on the forum as a member may have compiled a database of numbers for that regiment. I don't believe there is a full database of all numbers.
You should be able to discover his serving battalion from the combination of his regimental number and enlistment date. Each regiment had multiple sequences of numbers so there is a lot of duplication. The depot would also depend upon his battalion.
http://www.1914-1918.net/cameron.htm
Often just 'List' is used on medal cards instead of 'SWB List'. If you get no joy on the GWF you should start by posting the relevant bits of his medal card on here.
Ken
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Doddie also be aware that there may be more than one Medal Index Card to him....one for his campaign Medals the other for the SWB.
Ady
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Hello, have managed to find some more information. My grandfather's Service Number was S/32166. On his medal index card the list entry for my grandfather's Silver War Badge is G/A/1045 (as far as I can make out). The badge/certificate reference number, according to some War Office correspondence at the relevant time is, B.250620. Does anyone know how to trace a reference via the National Archives online site. I realise that I won't be able to view an actual copy of my grandfather's badge details in the rolls but maybe an index number can be found which will lead me to the right entry on the roll should I decide to visit the National Archives in Kew. I have been on the National Archives website but I am probably not obviously not using it senisibly. All advice appreciated.
Regards
Doddie
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It was issued between Sept 1918 and Dec 1919.
ive had people look up the swb roll for me to get badge number etc but dont know how to work the indexes myself.
Ady
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I'm pretty sure that you can't do what you want online. The last time I did a look-up it involved checking the code from the medal card against lists in a loose leaf folder from the enquiry desk and noting the relevant piece number and then ordering up the said piece [the actual original roll] as an original document - to do which you will need a reader's ticket.
If you do decide to visit the very helpful staff will guide you through the process, but there will be very little to show at the end of it - see my previous post.
jds1949
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Thanks to all who have taken the time to help. I will probably visit the Archives early next year. I have been down twice previously (on non WW1 related issues) so know my way around. Thankfully there is other information I am looking for in addition to my Silver War Badge line of inquiry so the trip will hopefully bear more information than just that.
Regards
Doddie
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Doddie,
If I've got it right, this is the ledger you will be looking for:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0flp/
Phil
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Phil....how did you work that one...think its spot on..Issued in Perth....if its on there do you think you can order on the Docs online if you quote the index number?
Ady
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Hi forester, thanks for that. Can I ask how you managed to narrow things down? When I went to check the Nat. Arch. catalogue there were various 'files' all under WO 329 and all of which relate to Silver War Badges. I couldn't differentiate between them . The Perth reference does seem right as my grandfathers's other medals (Brtish War Medal & Victory Medal) were procesed and issued from there.
Regards
George
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Ady and George,
I'm sure that there must be an easier way of doing it, but I haven't worked it out yet. I just did it by trial and error from SWB Rolls that I do know the WO 329 reference for.
It isn't on Documents Online. The only SWB Rolls that I do know are online are the first volume of the Officer's Rolls, which to download the complete ledger, will cost over £40. I've yet to see the reasoning behind it; the amount of info is limited and the popularity can hardly match that of a war diary.
Phil
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Hi Phil, I appreciate you taking the time to check through the roll indexes. I will let you know how I get on when I visit Kew.
Regards
Doddie
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My grandfather - William James Dix - was a private in the 1/Northumberland Fusiliers and was discharged in August 1917 with shell shock and was awarded the Silver War Badge.
I found the Medal Roll Index Card on Ancestry.co.uk and was able to view the 'Roll of Individuals Entitled to the "War Badge" ' at the National Archives. I was allowed to copy the page which indicates enlistment and discharge dates etc.
This was a major breakthrough for me since I had so little information previously. It appears his other service records have not survived. The badge itself was probably lost in the Blitz' when my grandparents were bombed out in Highbury. He couldn't stand the noise of the air raids and spent many hours down the local tube station.
The Roll is now available online through Ancestry.co.uk - http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2456
Also, the monthly Battalion War Diaries are available on the NA website.
I am currently trying to find a way of identifying other soldiers from the 1st that enlisted in January 1914. Also, I have a photo of him at a convalescent hospital somewhere and may be able to identify the location by way of the uniform of the nurse featured in the picture.
Regards Robert Dix Felixstowe
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Robert the old Documents online search used to let you search by number therefore if you had someone for example with the number 123456 you could put in search parameters 1234** so that would give you lads that would have enlisted pretty much at same time....its not foolproof but it worked for me identifying some lads from a Royal Engineers Tunnel company.
Unsure how the Discovery search engine plays!
Good luck
Ady
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Oh - I didn't know you could do that!
I just tried it here and it seems to work ;D
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/medal-index-cards-ww1.htm
(the search box is half way down page)
Milly