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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Inverness => Topic started by: gazza855 on Wednesday 05 October 11 16:24 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I am trying to trace my line beyond my greatx4 grandparents:
Isaac Mcleod/Macleod and Isabella Beaton. I believe they were married on 22 Dec 1848 and lived in Inverness-shire.
I thought with a name like Isaac Mcleod it would be easy enough to find and to trace further, but I am having no luck.
Any ideas/help much appreciated.
Thanks - Gazza.
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Hi gazza855
Do you know where in Inverness-shire?
I have a Farquer Beaton distantly in my tree - married a MacRury about the same decade of the marriage you're citing. They were on Benbecula (Outer Hebrides/Western Isles). I haven't done any work on him as he's so distant, but I may have a contact who has more on this Beaton family should it be in the right area.
If geography matches, I'm happy to make an inquiry.
Happy hunting.
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Thanks - but I suspect they were from/around Inverness itself, and not the Islands.
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They were married in Inverness, and are in the 1851 census for Inverness.
Your date for the marriage is correct, city of Inverness, and it's the spelling of "McLeod".
Regards
Malky
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Gazza, have you followed Isaac and Isabella through to their death certs? You may need to confirm their parents' names from their death certs to try to work back to their family lines.
Monica
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You will I think need to double check death cert details. The 1841 census will not really help you:
Mary Lap 40 b. Foreign Parts
Isaac Mcleod 15 saddler
Address: King Stret, Inverness
Monica
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If you've a FHC (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) they've the marriage and birth records from about 1821-1900. Was checking them the other day -- it'll be on the Mirco-Fiche. chuck
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I have now seen the marriage certificate and annoyingly there is nothing on it. It is a page extract from the register, and written in beautiful handwriting, but none of the entries listed for any of the marriages show parents - bah :(
I then decided to look at the death certificate for Isaac Mcleod and would you believe it - parents not known!! bah :(
I guess that's the end of that line, and explains why he was living with Mary Lap (40) from foreign parts in the 1841 census as he had not direct parents.
There were 2 Isabella Beatons both born the same year, so I will perhaps need to try and find if one of them stayed and died in Inverness with Isaac to check a death certificate for her line.
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Official registration did not begin in Scotland until 1855. So, as you have found, the marriage entry you have seen is from the Parish Register which unfortunately seldom includes much info. Pity that whoever reported Isaac's death did not know the names of his parents :-\
That 1841 census entry for him, just something to bear in mind. 1841 census entries do not include relationships within the household in the main, so hard to guess at what relationship if any there was between Mary Lap and Isaac. For example, you can't discount that Mary Lap could have been Isaac's mother at this stage. In Scotland, married women never 'lost' their maiden name. In early censuses, not unusal to see a married or widowed woman under her maiden name.
Monica
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Thanks Monica. Useful to know.
I am going to presume that Isaac was an orphan and that there was no relationship to Mary Lap, as I think I did some digging with that link a while ago and drew a blank! Will focus on Beaton and others
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Searched all of New Family Search with no luck at all - sorry - c
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"You will I think need to double check death cert details. The 1841 census will not really help you:
Mary Lap 40 b. Foreign Parts
Isaac Mcleod 15 saddler
Address: King Stret, Inverness
Monica"
The 1851 census gives Isaac as a journeyman saddler, with wife Isabella and child Mary Ann.
The 1861 census gives Isaac as a saddler, with wife Isabella, children Mary Ann, Jane and Alfred and mother as Mary, born in Lisbon, Portugal.
Address for both, 13 Huntly Street, Inverness.
Regards
Malky
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Malky,
Sorry for being a bit thick - so the census states that Isaac's mother was Mary (Lap) from Lisbon, Portugal?
Also I knew nothing of Alfred or Mary which is now good
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Superstar, Malky ;D Well done for following through from my messy start!
Monica
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Found an Isabelle Beaton and Issac McLeod - Children Mary MacLeod 1849; William Mcleod 1852 and 15 July 1852 Inverness,Inverness, christening; and Jane Mcleod 1854;
Alfred Mcleod 4 June 1858 (same parents);
Then I've found an Isabelle Beaton married to Donald Mccuiaig or McLeod - born 1801 - Bowmore, Argyll, Scot. Immigrated to Banks, Collingwood, Grey, Ontario, Canada She died 1900.
This Isabelle has parents - Gilbert Beaton and Mary Robertson - married 15 March 1797 Killarrow, Argyll, Scotland (no other information) Children: Isabelle; Jannet 4 March 1803; Mary 24 September 1805; and Ann christened 9 March 1812.
c
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Thanks for that - didn't know about William either. Looks like the other Beaton/McLeod couple you found are no relation though - but thanks for the check.
Think options are to stop with Mary Lap (as doubt I can get info on her - if she was definately Isaacs mother), and progress Isabella Beaton's parents.
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The '51 census does not mention the mother, the '61 census has her as Mary "Mcleod". But by deduction, this would more than probably be as the '41 census states, Mary "Lap", born "foreign parts". The '61 census has her as 61 years old, which would tie in with her being 40 in the '41 census.
There is an additional son "Grigor" born in 1866, Inverness.
Isabella is missing in the 1881 census, but there is a death of an Isabella McLeod, nee Beaton, Inverness 1880. The age shown is confusing. It has her born c 1836 which would match her age of 35 in the '71 census, but in the '51 and '61 census, both Isaac and Isabella are listed as born in Inverness, c 1825 and c 1831 respectively.
The other data would match up.
Confused yet??
Regards
Malky.
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Confused - yes, yes, yes, but grateful as well.
So Mary Lap ("Mcleod) is listed as his mother (whether by birth or 'adoption') on some censuses and it's interesting to know of Grigor - that's new... that would be a son to Isaac and Isabella as well then...?
I also found Isabella had died in 1880, 9 years before Isaac. Strange though that if Mary was listed as his mother, why someone has written 'not known' for his parents?
When I next get some credits for SP, I'll need to check that cert out. I won't put too much stock in the census/birth dates for now. :)
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Found a death certificate for Isabella in Inverness in 1880 (confirmed & witnessed by Isaac):
This opened up her parents:
William Beaton & Jane (Fraser). I couldn't find any records other than a death certificate for a Jane Fraser in Inverness. She was born in 1803, which ties in with the daughter Isabella being born ~1826.
If this Jane (who is the only one I can find) is def Isabella's mother, then I have parents for her as: John Fraser and Isabella Fraser (ms Fraser?) This could take me back to the 1700s - wahoo!
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Found a death certificate for Mary McLeod, Isaac's mother.
d 11-3-64 30 Huntly St, Inverness
Widow of Isaac McLeod, P......... (looks like Pensioner)
70 years old
Informant - Isaac McLeod, Son, Present
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Interesting...
So the death cert states she is a widow of an Isaac McLeod. In which case, I wonder why her name was down as Mary (Lap) in the 41 census and not Mcleod? And why on the 'son' Isaac's death certificate in 1889 did it state parents not known?
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In Scotland, women never legally 'lost' their maiden names and particularly in the earlier censuses can show under their maiden names rather than married surnames. Same situation with widows.
Monica
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I am a little scepticle on this:
Death certificate for Mary McLeod, Isaac's mother.
d 11-3-64 30 Huntly St, Inverness
Widow of Isaac McLeod, P......... (looks like Pensioner)
70 years old
Informant - Isaac McLeod, Son, Present
-- If Isaac's father was also Isaac as per Mary's death cert details above and his mother 'was' Mary, I can't fathom why it said parents not known on his death certificate in 1894. The devious side of me thinks Mary had adopted young Isaac and for some reason listed her Husband as being called Isaac... To add to this, I can find no record of any marriage of any of the only 2 other Isaacs on SP, other than the marriage of Isaac and Isabella. ???
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Records, as you are finding, don't always make themselves available when you need them!
One of the main problems that you are having here is that many of the events you are trying to find are before the start of official registration in Scotland from 1855 onwards. Records before this year will be from, in the main, the Old Parish Registers (OPRs) which as you have already found were most often mininal info/one liners.
The OPRs record events from the established Church of Scotland - i.e. presbyterian.
There are lots of reasons why you may not find birth or marriage entries in these registers, not exclusively due to:
- family belonged to a different religeous denomination and any remaining records may not be avaible on line for this.
- registers lost or destroyed over the years.
- it cost money to register these events, many families could not afford to do so.
Don't be so surprised that at the time of Isaac's death his parents were shown as unknown to the informant. I am right in thinking that by the time Isaac died, wife Isabella had also already died? Over the years, the informants to deaths (if family to the deceased) could forget this info and not uncommon.
Monica
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Monica - thanks for the sanity check.
You were right that Isaac's death was probably reported by a family member (son Alfred). And I suppose it is very plausible that he didn't know the names of his grandparents.
And you are also right that it is frustrating that when information is being sought it often comes with large gaps of waiting in between.
I was hopeful that with an unusual name as Isaac I could have got a bit further back - but that's not going to happen (yet).
Still, I have found out some good information and also traced Isabella Beaton's line back to her grandparents ~1770/80s. Jacobite Rebellion - her i come...
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Hi there, I have been searching for last couple of years to find Mary Lap/McLeod and further back. She would of been my great great great grandmother. I have tried to look through passenger lists etc to no avail as I see she came here from Portugal. I wondered if Mary had met her husband during Napoleonic war or similar and settled here following. I notice your post is from over a year ago but if you have managed to get any further I would be grateful if you could get in touch through this site.
Thanks.
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Hi,
I am amazed to come across this post. I'm Gillian and Isaac was my great great grandad. Unfortunately I have also hit a wall with Mary Lap. However, in one of the handwritten documents I checked out online, it actually looked more like "Lop" to me than "Lap". Lop does appear to be a valid portuguese surname - a version of Lopez I think????? Just thought I'd mention that in case it helps open up any avenues. I'd be really interested to hear if anyone finds out any more! :)
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Hi there, lovely to hear from you! Your Dad isn't by chance called John is he as I may know of the link in our family through my mum. I've done a bit more research on this Lop/Lap puzzle over time however I'm not sure how accurate my findings are. I have came across a Maria Loppes from Lisbon Portugal through Portugal records. I know it's a bit of a leap however I've came across a lot of typos in the census over time with misspelling of names etc.
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Hi Pheebz
Yes!!! My Dad is John, and his dad was John and his dad was Grigor. Who is your mum?
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I also think you are probably right with Maria Loppes. I think Lap is definitely a typo and Mary Lop sounds more like the name the locals in Inverness may have called her lol.
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My mum is Morag. I am Fiona. My Grandpa was Alfred. I have since found that Grigor was actually Gregor and it was a typo too! So curious about the name Isaac as it seems such a Hebrew name for Inverness area although I've searched am baile and noted quite a few Isaacs during that period so perhaps it was just a fashionable name at the time!
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How interesting, my dad will be amazed when I tell him about this, he loves all this stuff too. I wondered about the name Grigor and thought maybe it was a Hebrew variation of Gregor maybe following on from Isaac lol. In hindsight though, I think that's just how it's pronounced in Inverness. Isaac does appear to be a popular name for the period but it's still a bit strange. I'll be in touch if I find out anything else and it would be great to hear from you too. So nice to hear from you. :)
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Hello Weegrm & Pheebz.
I have been off family tree stuff for a while, but am keen to get back in on things.
I am also living near Inverness and might be able to do a little more digging on things.
Hope to hear from you
Gazza
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I am new to this website and not sure how old this chat is. However, I have also been researching Isaac Mcleod and found a newspaper article that may be of interest.
The article was published in The Highland News, 17 September 1904, and entitled, "A Walk Through Inverness Sixty Years Ago." It is a remarkable memory, showing what an impression the Portuguese lady must have made in Inverness. When I first read about her, I was concerned that she may have felt isolated, but it looks like she was a bubbly, sociable person. This is what the author says about Mary:
"That tidy little body who is conversing with Mrs Matheson at the close-mouth is the widow of John Macleod, an Inverness soldier, who married her during the occupation of Portugal by the British Army. She is a Portuguese lady, and her maiden name was Mary Lopaz. She has brought up a family, and has evidently not been able to return to her native sunny south, although she never tires of dilating on its many and varied beauties."
It says her husband's name was John, but I think it must be the same person. Mary's burial is noted in the Catholic Archives.