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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: mrstar on Monday 03 October 11 21:33 BST (UK)
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Hello,
My apologies if this has been discussed before but I can't seem to find it. Iam looking for advice about a possible adoption in 1887. Am I right in thinking official records did not start until 1927? Does this mean there are no documents detailing adoptions in 1887? Would there be any court information? or any sort of differences on a birth certificate perhaps? Does anyone know what an adoption procedure would have been like in 1887 and what could be the reasons for such? Is there anywhere I could find more information please?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Many thanks for your time :)
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Hi
This might help
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,253490.0.html
Jan
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There's a history timeline here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/familyhistory/bloodlines/familysecrets.shtml?entry=national_adoption_register&theme=familysecrets
Dawn
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Prior to 1927 there was no formal adoption process, and the term "adopted" generally included fostering and guardianship. In many instances a child was simply "adopted" into the extended family or taken in by neighbours/family friends and brought up as a member of their own family. Occasionally it was arranged through a solicitor, doctor or charitable organisation but adoption was viewed as an essentially private arrangement between the parties concerned.
Stan
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Thankyou so much for all the advice. I will have a good read through and see if there are any other angles I haven't tried. if the adoption was arranged through a local church or group could there be any records? or would it have been kept private?
Thanks to the census records, war records and marriage and death certificates and also stories which have been passed down the family, we have found evidence that he lived with at least three different families (who I have managed to connect) and had at least three different surnames. We are still not 100% sure on his birthname and so are still not sure we have found the right birth certificate. We know his birthday but not the year for definite.
I really feel it would be admitting defeat if we don't crack this puzzle, but after many years of piecing it together Iam starting to feel Iam running out of options! It seems the more we uncover the more questions there are....
Thankyou again for your time :)
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How do you know the birthday you have is correct? If he had at least 3 different surnames, it's possible he also changed his birthdate, unless you are just saying that each time he lived with a different family he took on their name? Is there any connection between the 3 families, could they be his aunts, uncles, married sisters, brothers etc?
Lizzie
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Hi Lizzie,
Thanks for your response. We have always understood his birthday to be 9th July, and this matches old diaries and family bibles we have found. However although we believe it to be 1887, this is questioned by his half sister in her diary (all her other notes have proved correct), and is different on each census (I know the census forms do round up/down) we also have his original wedding and death certificate which give an age.
In the 1891 census he is listed as aged 3, living with, we believe, an uncle and his family and has taken on their surname: BENNELL One of the children of this family always used to say he was her brother and couldnt understand why he went to live elsewhere.
In the 1901 census he is living with, who we believe to be his biological father (our g.g grandfather) and his wife and children (who also always said he was their brother) and has their surname (and the name he was alwasy known by0 STRATFORD
in 1911 he is living just down the road from his 'father' with his father's mother in law, but is listed with a different surname entirely - one which we then discovered on a birth certificate dated 9 July 1887 which he had in his possession 2 months before he died: HAWES
On his wedding certificate (from 1920) and war records and medals from WW1 he goes by his fathers surname STRATFORD, yet there is no birth registered under this name.
I have reordered the birth certificate he had and tried to trace the mother named on it but with no luck. My mother in law and I have been piecing his life together for many years now but still are frustratingly no closer to discovering his real mother and why he came to live with the other families. We will continue looking...
Thanks.
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Presumably the mother named on the Hawes birth certificate was called Hawes.
1. He lived with Mr and Mrs Bennell, the children thought he was their brother.
2. He then lived with a Mr Stratford, who you believe was his father and the children there thought he was their brother.
Is it possible that his mother went on to marry Mr Bennell and that both the Bennell children and the Stratford children are correct in saying he was their brother. Or have you already gone down that line of research?
Lizzie
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(I know the census forms do round up/down)
Only for the 1841 Census, not for any of the others :)
Stan
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Thanks once again for your help. :)
His mother's name on the certificate is indeed Emma HAWES. His name is written as Thomas Percy Hawes. However we still do not know if this is the correct certificate, although his name being Percy HAWES in 1911 points us in that direction. On all other documentation, photos etc his name is Percy STRATFORD.
Mrs BENNELL (Lydia) who he lived with in 1901, maiden name was PLUMRIDGE. I have tried to find a plumridge/hawes connection but with not much luck! She did have a sister Annie PLUMRIDGE who I thought could be a possibility but with not much luck. Ive looked for possible children under Plumridge, Bennell and Hawes but can't seem to find any odd ones (most Ive traced in later census forms with other families, or have died for example)
I have been hunting through lots of local baptisms and workhouse records too but still no luck. It is very frustrating! His only son was killed in WW2 and so we believe are now his closest living relatives and would really like to get all the facts in order - it is however proving rather difficult! :-\
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Hmm - I'll have another think, you would assume with all those names and dates you'd be able to find something.
Lizzie
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;D haha yes exactly! We've been going round in circles with this for years now. Any ideas are welcome, I think Iam going to go right back to the beginning and go through it all again piece by piece... Thanks :)
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Just to confuse things there are two Thomas Percy Hawes born July quarter 1887 - one in Buckinghamshire and one in Edmonton. The Edmonton one according to the 1891census also has a mother called Emma and a father James Hawes who is born in Buckinghamshire.
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Just to confuse things there are two Thomas Percy Hawes born July quarter 1887 - one in Buckinghamshire and one in Edmonton. The Edmonton one according to the 1891census also has a mother called Emma and a father James Hawes who is born in Buckinghamshire.
Sadly the Edmonton boy seems to have died in Jun qtr 1892 aged 4.
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What was the address of the birth of Thomas Percy Hawes according to the 1887 birth certificate? Have you traced the occupants of the address in 1881 and/or 1891?
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Hello,
The certificate I have says he was born 9 July 1887 to Emma Hawes, chair caner of Wheeler End West Wycombe. The birht wasn't registered until 20th September. There is no specific address, no hint as to whether she was married or not and no father listed, though we have always been told his father was Thomas Stratford (our gg grandfather) and hence he was always known as Percy Stratford. I am open to all possibilities now however!
I too have noticed there is another Thomas Percy Hawes Jul 1887, and did wonder initially if it could be the same person registered in two parishes as I have come across this before, but is this likely?
Thanks everyone for your help.
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I too have noticed there is another Thomas Percy Hawes Jul 1887, and did wonder initially if it could be the same person registered in two parishes as I have come across this before, but is this likely?
Given the 1892 death registration matching the details of the Edmonton child, no.
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There are 5 Emma Hawes in the 1891 census living in Buckinghamshire, all in Wycombe. 4 are married but this is the fifth:
RG12 Piece: 1143 Folio: 140 Page: 6
Wycombe Union Workhouse, Saunderton Buckinghamshire
Emma Hawes Inmate Single F 26 General Servant Domestic West Wycombe Buckinghamshire
I wonder if that is her?
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There are 5 Emma Hawes in the 1891 census living in Buckinghamshire, all in Wycombe. 4 are married but this is the fifth:
RG12 Piece: 1143 Folio: 140 Page: 6
Wycombe Union Workhouse, Saunderton Buckinghamshire
Emma Hawes Inmate Single F 26 General Servant Domestic West Wycombe Buckinghamshire
I wonder if that is her?
Interesting find :)
There's also a 4-month-old Frederic Hawes, b Saunderton, in the same workhouse.
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By 1901 Emma has married Robert T Hoing and they are in Wheeler End with children including "Fredrick" Hawes aged 10 b Saunderton... and Emma's occupation is chair caner :)
1901: RG13/1348/106/11.
Marriage, Sep qtr 1895
Robert Thomas HOING
Emma HAWES
on same page, Wycombe 3a 1164.
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Thankyou for all your help - this is some great leads. :)
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I knew whilst I was thinking, that someone else would come up with more info for you. ;D
Well done avm.
Lizzie
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It's four years since this thread was used, but I'd be happy to share info I have on Emma Hawes (the one who married my G*2-grandfather Robert Hoing). It might also help me. Anyone still interested?