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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: jackh on Monday 03 October 11 16:47 BST (UK)

Title: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: jackh on Monday 03 October 11 16:47 BST (UK)
Hello,
I have hit a brick wall at my Grandmother Eliza Taylor. Here is what I know.

From her daughter, my Aunt Mary Evelyn Henderson (deceased)
Eliza Taylor was born about 1874 in Liverpool celebrated her birthday 22nd November. Lived in York until her marriage to John Corner Henderson in 1901 and then lived in Middlesbrough. She had a sister who married but died young and her mother was still alive at the time of her sister’s marriage.

What I have found.
She was in York workhouse in 1881 census aged 7 born Liverpool with whom I presume to be her sister Elizabeth Taylor aged 13 born Liverpool. Subsequent records give her age. 1891 census aged 17, 1901 census aged 26, marriage 8 April 1901 aged 26, 1911 census aged 35 and death 4 July 1949 aged 73.
At her marriage she gave her fathers name as Charles Taylor, Artist, though I wonder if this is fictitious. She had an illegitimate son Fred Scruton Taylor 13 Jun 1899 in York

I have searched the only surviving York Workhouse admission books 1880 and 1881 (unless someone knows of other previous years surviving) in which she did not appear so presumably she entered before 1880. I have sent for the most likely wrong birth certificate, tried matching all Eliza Taylor’s born Liverpool Districts on the GRO with Census records and come up with nothing conclusive.

Of course I am looking for her parents and any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in anticipation, Jackh

Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 04 October 11 09:31 BST (UK)
Hi Jack...Have you considered this one from Familysearch:

 Elizabeth Taylor 
bap 17 May 1874 
 CHURCH,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND 
birth 06 Apr 1874 
Father Charles Taylor 
Mother  Margaret Ann 
(Batch) Number: D19840-2 

Carol
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: jackh on Tuesday 04 October 11 11:16 BST (UK)
Thanks Carol,
I'm afraid the birth date and place do not correspond.
Jack
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 04 October 11 15:26 BST (UK)
IF she is consistantly Eliza (rather than Elizabeth or anything else) and if she was actually born in Liverpool, AND if the date of birth is correct ......   (lots of IF's) .....
then FreeBMD has only about 10 Eliza's registered in Oct/Nov/Dec 1874.

By looking for firstly deaths as infants, and then for each in 1881 you should be able to rule many/most/some out.
Any remaining must be strong contenders for the girl that grew up as ELiza Taylor!

And if none prove to be her, then either the name ELiza, the place Liverpool, or the date of birth are robably not right.
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 04 October 11 15:31 BST (UK)
Another thought - when the sister marries, who does she name as father? Is that Charles the artist too?
And how is it known that her mother was still alive? Was she a witness? If so what was the mother's name?
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: jillruss on Tuesday 04 October 11 17:25 BST (UK)
Have you tried locating the sister on the 1871 census - aged 3? She might still be with her parents.

Jill
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: toni* on Tuesday 04 October 11 17:31 BST (UK)
who were the witnesses to the marriage to John  Henderson ? any Taylors ?
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: jackh on Tuesday 04 October 11 18:39 BST (UK)
Hello lizdb
I have also posted this on the Lancashire site http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,558712.0.html where I have received several replies and answered them.
Basically my Aunt, Eliza’s daughter told me all I knew about her until I started my research. Sadly she died in 2005 aged 101 and there is no one else to question. She told me the date her mother Eliza celebrated he birthday but was not sure of the year and also told me the facts about her sister and mother although no names were mentioned and she was too frail to press questions for any duration. Eliza was consistently Eliza as was her birthplace Liverpool all of which fitted my Aunt’s information. In 1901 census one week before she married my Grandfather she was staying with my Grandfather’s married sister along with an unmarried sister, every thing fitted. Presuming that the 13-year-old Elizabeth Taylor born Liverpool, also in the York Workhouse 1881 census, was her sister she would soon to be sent out to service at that age and eventually be married. I have no reason to doubt my Aunts word as although frail she was intelligent (ex school teacher) and totally compos mentis.
A search for the marriage of Elizabeth Taylor hopefully in Yorkshire was impossible as the name must be only second in commonality to John Smith.
I  have tried the searches you suggested and eliminated most if not all the Eliza Taylor’s and sent for the most likely certificate that proved to be wrong. The censuses are not consistent enough to be certain but perhaps I should try that again now that I’m more experienced.
Thanks for the suggestions,
Jack
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: jackh on Tuesday 04 October 11 18:45 BST (UK)
Jill I have tried that but come up with no one I can tie in with an Eliza Taylor that I cannot eliminate.
Toni the witnesses were my Grandfathers sister and her husband, by this time Eliza would have no known relatives.
Jack
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: toni* on Tuesday 04 October 11 19:01 BST (UK)
i dont think you can conclusively rule out the Elizabeth that Carol found earlier unless you can find her on the 1901 census
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: jackh on Tuesday 04 October 11 21:10 BST (UK)
Hi Toni,
Not conclusively but Church is near Accrington about 50 miles from Liverpool so I think unlikely.
Jack
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: kath davis on Wednesday 12 October 11 19:31 BST (UK)
I have tried another approach - I assumed either or both parents had died in York between 1871 and 1881.  Using Ancestry I found a Charles Taylor, died Q1 1873 in York.  I then looked in the 1871 census for Charles Taylor, born Liverpool in 1831 and found this family in East Yorkshire.  The fact that the youngest child is Elizabeth, age 3 makes me feel it is worth further investigation.   

Charles Taylor   40
Betty Taylor   36
Florence Mam Taylor   13
Merriam Taylor   10
George Taylor   7
Elizabeth Ellen Taylor   3

Happy Hunting
Kath
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: jackh on Wednesday 12 October 11 23:33 BST (UK)
Thanks Kath,
I was hoping for some lateral thinking but alas this family were alive in 1881. They are definitely same family.

16 Star Street, Broughton in Salford, Yorkshire
Charles Taylor       head 50 widower  Lancs, Liverpool
Miriam Taylor       daur 19             Lancs, Manchester
George Taylor        son  17                   Yks, Bradford
Elizabeth Ellen Taylor daur  13      Durham, Bishop Auckland

I have positively accounted for every Eliza Taylor born in the Liverpool area included in the GRO so perhaps they didn’t register or fill in censuses.

Jack
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: kath davis on Thursday 13 October 11 08:59 BST (UK)
Jack

Now I am confused - I thought according to your first post that Eliza, 7 and Elizabeth, 13 were in the York Workhouse in 1881.

Kath
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: jackh on Thursday 13 October 11 14:33 BST (UK)
Kath, Sorry if I confused you. I should have said they were the same family you refered to but since they were alive in 1881 they cannot be the family I am looking for.
Thanks, Jack
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: kath davis on Thursday 13 October 11 14:44 BST (UK)
Thanks for the clarification.  Back to the drawing board then.

Kath
Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 13 October 11 15:43 BST (UK)

At her marriage she gave her fathers name as Charles Taylor, Artist,
though I wonder if this is fictitious

Of course I am looking for her parents and any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in anticipation

Was Charles noted as deceased on marriage cert.

I wonder what sort of 'Artist ' he was  - a performer - a painter  ???

Have found these details of a  Charles Taylor who's occ painter maybe be nothing but worth a look

Bapt 16 Jun 1843
St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Charles Taylor parents William Taylor occ Painter & Margery
Abode: Winwick Street

Marriage: 6 Nov 1864 St Michael Toxteth Lancashire, England
Charles Taylor 22 PAINTER Bach Pleasant Hill St F William Taylor Painter
Catherine Ettles - 21 Spin Pleasant Hill St F William Ettles, Mariner
Witness: Robert Williams; Marian Wright, (X)

Not found Charles & Catherine together 1871

There is however this Catherine on 1871 with son

Catherine TAYLOR ditto M 1842 Liverpool 3rd ? Officers wife
John William Taylor son 1 year 11 months Bootle

1881 RG11; Piece: 3653; Folio: 39; Page: 16;
Catherine Taylor widowed 1842 Liverpool Servant

1891 RG12; Piece: 2965; Folio 17; Page 28
Catharine Taylor widowed 1842 Liverpool Shopkeeper (Haberdashery)

There is also this baptism but father's occ. Labourer  ???
13 Mar 1868  St Martin Liverpool
Elizabeth Mary Taylor  parents Charles Taylor & Catherine
Abode: Hopwood St

Can't find this family together either on 1871c

Title: Re: Brick wall at Grandmother
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 13 October 11 15:50 BST (UK)
I have positively accounted for every Eliza Taylor born in the Liverpool area included in the GRO so perhaps they didn’t register or fill in censuses.

Have you ruled out the other ELiza's? (s in reply #3)
She could well have been registered with another surname, and that is why we cant find her.
Otherwise, as I said before, one or more of the pieces of info (date, name, place) must be incorrect - the challenge is finding which!