RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Lyn54 on Monday 03 October 11 14:43 BST (UK)
-
I wonder if anyone could help with this one:
On the death cert (off SP) for Fyfe Johnstone McGurk who died on 23 Feb 1932 the informant of death was B Wilson, daughter of 2 Ann Terrace, Abbeyhill, Edinburgh.
Fyfe and his wife Margaret Ann Milburn (known as Ellen) split up around 1896/7 but got back together around 1912.
In the meantime wife Margaret had another child - Beatrice born in 1899/1900 who are both noted on the 1901 census living at 41 High Street, Portobello. Margaret has resorted back to her maiden name and is shown as Ellen Milburn.
I have looked on SP for a birth cert for Beatrice but have found nothing under either Milburn or McGurk. Does anyone have any ideas where else I could look?
The next time Beatrice crops up is as the informant on Fyfe Johnstone McGurk’s deat cert (SP) where she is noted as B Wilson, daughter of 2 Ann Terrace, Abbeyhill.
I have found what I think is Beatrice’s marriage to David Meldrum Wilson in 1927 where she lists herself as Beatrice Ann Crosbie of Violet Bank, Abbeyhill. I believe Ann Terrace was in Violet Bank. Her parents are noted as John Crosbie (dec) and Margarat Ann Crosbie (dec)with a maiden surname that looks very much like Milburn (the transcript is not good!). There is no record of a marriage between Milburn & Crosbie. Her mother died in 1926 and was living at 1 Ann Terrace, Abbeyhill.
Does anyone have access to any electoral rolls for 1932 for 2 Ann Terrace, Abbeyhill to see if this is indeed Beatrice Wilson married to David Wilson? She would have been aged 32 at this time.
Thanks for any help given.
Lyn
-
Hi Lyn
There is one birth entry for a Beatrice Crosbie in 1898 (haven't checked where in Scotland) in 1898. Have you discounted that entry?
Monica :)
-
Haven't seen that one - will take a look! thanks.
-
Just looked on SP - not the right one.
-
Pity :-\ As you have found, nothing seems to show under McGurk and Milburn (with wildcards). Always the possibilty that Beatrice may not have been her registered name I suppose (as you have found with Margaret Ann being known as Ellen).
Monica
-
Thanks Monica. I have a feeling she wasn't registered at all and although Crosbie may have been her father's name there certainly doesn't seem to be a marriage between him and Margaret.
Thanks for your help though.
Lyn :)
-
Unlikely she wasn't registered by now to be honest, more a question of with what names...
If Margaret and Fyfe were separated at this time, I would have guessed her registration would have been under Milburn or Crosbie (if father John Crosbie had attended the registrar's office to allow his surname to be used on the register). Could also have been under McGurk.
But none of this is helping is it in helping you find her birth entry :-\
Don't suppose there were possibly any useful witness names on the likely marriage entry you found for her to David Wilson?
Monica
-
Hi Monica
I don't think the names are much use. I think they are John Butler C...... and Rpbert Gordon Begg. I will attach a portion of the marriage cert - hope it is ok to put on this site. It's a very bad copy. Going by this transcription do you think Margaret's MS is Milburn?
Lyn
-
Sorry - forget to attach the bit about Margaret Ann Milburn noted as mother.
-
Certainly looks like mother is Milburn. SP are really good at responding to your enquiries if you ever have a problem reading something off an image, see www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=1210 Why don't you contact them and ask them to perhaps send you an enhanced image for the sections that are hard to read, can make a big difference.
Monica
-
I didn't know that - will have a word with them, thanks Monica.
-
There is this 1901 census entry that I saw:
John Crosbie, 40, patient, bottle blower b. England
He shows as a patient at the Lauriston Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh. He is the only John Crosbie with the word bottle in his occupation, so happens in the right sort of area!
Monica
-
That's worth a look at. I haven't been able to find Margaret or Beatrice on the 1911 census in Scotland or England (the family had ties to Durham).
-
Lyn, the closest I can get for 1911 and that is just playing around on general searches is this:
Ellan Crosbie, 11 - second person name in household is Margaret Crosbie in Leith. This Margaret shows as aged 41.
Margaret Ann's mother was Eleanor? Could Beatrice have been registered as Ellen (or variant)?
Monica
-
There is an Ellen CROSBIE birth registration to also consider in 1900 in Leith - may connect with that 1911 census entry maybe?
ADDED: :-\ Don't think any of these entries are connected now... There is a Benjamin and Margaret Crosbie showing in Leith in 1901 with a daughter Ellen b. 1900...boooh!
-
Ah, Monica...... this is what it's been like with this family. You think you're getting somewhere then the brick wall arrives!
I was just about to use my last 5 credits when I got your last message. I think I should take out shares with SP!
It seems with all official documentation ie marriage birth and death records the mother is noted by her full name of Margaret Ann Milburn but on each census she is named Ellen. I'm presuming this is because her own mother Eleanor (Ellen for short) died shortly after Margaret was born.
I have also just got Margaret's death cert off SP and noted she died at 144 Comiston Road, Edinburgh which I believe was the name given on birth and death certs to hide the fact it was in fact the poorhouse, later known as Greenlea.
-
When it gets this hard to trace people, it is just the time you want to have your bottom on a chair at the Scotlands People Centre in Edinburgh be able to view quickly every single cert you can find! It can be a financial ouch when the going gets tough can't it :-\ (Just don't mention the name MacDonald and SP in the same breath or I will get twitchy ::) ;D).
I have seen your tree on Ancestry and realise that Beatrice is a big gap on the info. I can also see the 1901 census where Beatrice aged 1 shows with mother Ellen boarding in Portobello.
Have you found Fyfe on the 1911 census?
-
Hi Monica
Yes I have Fyfe boarding in St Giles, Edinburgh.
-
So Margaret and Beatrice still very much AWOL by 1911!
I wonder if Margaret had more children between 1901-11? She was still very young wasn't she, born c. 1873?
Monica
-
Monica - I have her!
I've just found Beatrice's death cert. 5 Apr 1948
Beatrice Ann Wilson widow of David Meldrum Wilson
Parents: John Crosby (different spelling than before!) Bottle Worker & NELLIE Crosby, afterward McGurk MS Milburn.
Informant - Stepbrother T McGurk.
YES!!!!!!!! I love it when a plan comes together!
-
;D Hurray! Love it when all your effort gets rewarded. That is Beatrice isn't, all the info on her death cert connects the dots. Apart from how her birth may have been entered, she certainly fits in with the family.
Monica
-
Thanks for all your help Monica - you've been a gem.
Go and get and well earned cuppa!!
Take care
Lyn
-
Best of luck with everything Lyn :)
You might want to follow through with John Crosb* and possible deaths, might give you clues on Margaret's whereabouts in that period around the early 1900s.
There is a death for example for a John Crosby in 1908 in Portobello (born 1861) as a possiblity for Beatrice's father...
Let us know if you get another great breakthrough!
Monica
-
Will look at those, thanks again Monica. Will let you know how I get on :)
-
Hello Lyn,
Helen Melbourne (37) and Beatrice Crosbie (12) were in Edinburgh Morningside for the 1911 Census, as visitors to William and Elizabeth McDonald. William and Elizabeth had two daughters born in England: probably Sunderland from FreeBMD.
The John Crosbie in the Royal Infirmary in 1901 was the same person who died in Portobello in 1908, and he was the eldest brother of my great-grandmother. I was unaware that he had fathered another child until your post, so thank you for the information. Generations of the Crosbie family moved between the Newcastle/Ryton/Sunderland areas and Glasgow/Edinburgh areas, with the men being potters or bottle blowers. John Crosbie was married to Frances West in 1891 at Ryton (County Durham), and he was recorded as married to her on his death registration, but I have not been able to find Frances after the birth of their daughter Mary Jane Crosbie in 1892. Mary (Polly in 1911) was with her grandmother Sarah West in 1901 and 1911 before I lost track of her as well.
Regards,
John
-
Hi John
Thank you so much for this information. I'm only just starting to fill in the gaps concerning Beatrice Crosbie, a child that we had no information about. Would appreciate any information on the line you descend from. Do you have a tree on Ancestry?
My tree on Ancestry is under Blyth/Hutchison.
Best wishes
Lyn
-
Gosh, John, that is great information ;) Certainly helps with background regarding young Beatrice.
Monica
-
Hi Monica
Can't believe we're finally getting somewhere with Beatrice. Still no birth found for her though!
Lyn
-
I know :'( Although we have to think that her birth may not have been registered under the first name of Beatrice. Three possible surnames though:
Milburn - I would search for this as M*lb*n
Crosbie - Crosb* would pick up on possible variations of ie/(e)y
McGurk - M*g*rk* (although less likely given Fyfe and Margaret/Ellen's estrangement).
You also have the feeling that the birth likely took place in the general Edinburgh area given the 1901 and now the 1911 census entry provided by John.
Monica
-
Hi Monica
Have checked all variations I can think of for her birth. The only one that comes close is a Beatrice Mary Crosbie born 1898 in Cathcart, Renfrew but with parents Robert Crosbie and Helena.
We'll get there in the end!
Lyn
-
Monica
Dare I say I may have found her!
There is a Beatrice Annie Milburn born in 1898 in Sculcoates, Yorkshire. I know Crosbie family moved around from England to Scotland with their work.
What do you reckon?
-
Hello Lyn,
my best suggestion would be Beatrice Ann Crosby in the December quarter 1899, Gateshead;10a 934. The Crosbie family had no links to Sculcoates, but did have to the Gateshead area. In 1891, John Crosbie was living with his cousin Henry Walton at Victoria Garesfield, just west of Rowlands Gill in the Gateshead registration district.
Not sure when I shall be in the north-east of England, but it should be before Christmas (my father lives in the region), and I will have a look at local baptisms in the Tyne and Wear Archives for Beatrice. It may be a long shot, but buying English certificates is an expensive way of being wrong.
If you send a private message with your e-mail address, I will send a gedcom or report with the details of the Crosbie family.
Regards,
John