RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: herdy on Sunday 02 October 11 22:59 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I am trying to trace my family tree through my grandfather, Richard John Llewellyn Philpotts, born in Leominster in 1912. I have a copy of the birth cert. which lists his father as John Philpotts and his mother as Annie Philpotts ne Evans. My trouble is that I have no other details on John Philpotts (d.o.b, place of birth, date of death) to feel confident enough to pursue one I found in Leominster in the 1911 Census. I have trawled all other records online and have now ordered a copy of the marriage certificate of John and Annie, but if i could not find it online, I'm not sure if I will receive one.
I'm also struggling to find any military records for my grandfather for WW2. I have sent off for a copy of his service record, but that could take 12 months to come. I have entered his name ( and variations) into every site I can think of, but to no avail. Feeling frustrated. Any information of advise would be gratefully received. xxx
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
There was a Gwendoline C Philpotts born 1916 Leominster - mothers maiden name Evans
There are a lot of Philpotts births in Leominster between 1901-1911 - do you know if your grandfather had any older siblings?
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Could one of these be your John? They are all in Herefordshire
Births Mar 1864 (>99%)
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PHILPOTTS John Leominster 6a 556
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Births Mar 1875 (>99%)
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Philpotts John Bromyard 6a 557
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Births Sep 1883 (>99%)
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PHILPOTTS John Charles Hereford 6a 460
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Have you actually viewed the 1911 entry for the John Philpotts you found in Leominster? If not - I think you should
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Doesn't look like they were married in at the time of the 1911 census which explains why you can't find a record:
Information removed. 1911 census details are not allowed - please see here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,355484.0.html
The index is free to search and there are lots of suggestions on this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,492718.0.html
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;D Thankyou for repying so promptly. With regard to Gwerndoline Philpotts, yes she was a sister to my grandfather, but died age 2years. My grandfather was the oldest child. Thankyou for the list of John Philpotts'. I will definately take a look, but feel unsure as to wether to pursue one without more info. xx
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Oh... Yes I did look at the 1911 census record. There was a son listed of John and two children of Annie's. I have searched their births and deaths, but came up with nothing.
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Based on his age in the 1911 census I though this one seemed most likely although it has Charles as a middle name:
Births Sep 1883
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PHILPOTTS John Charles Hereford 6a 460
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Hi
On Richards birth certificate does it give the occupation of his father
Margp
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Oh... Yes I did look at the 1911 census record.
Then that should have answered all your questions
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:) Hello all,
In reply to your comments, there is no occupation listed for Richards father. There is an address which I have looked into briefly. It is very possible it was rented accommodation. Is there anywhere else I could go with this?
The 1911 census entry for john philpotts does provide a lot of coincidences with the information I have for my grandfathers family, but there is nothing concrete to link them.
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
There was a Gwendoline C Philpotts born 1916 Leominster - mothers maiden name Evans
There are a lot of Philpotts births in Leominster between 1901-1911 - do you know if your grandfather had any older siblings?
Does it give his occupation on the 1911 census, if not I would send for the birth certificate of Gwendoline you may get an occupation from that, also she was born during the 1 WW he may have been in that, and if he was, it should be shown on the birth certificate, I have checked the 1WW Record but no luck there but 70% were destroyed in the 2 WW
Margp
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Hi
Does Richards birth cert give any address?
Does that address link to the 1911 entry?
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;D I cannot thank you ladies enough for your wise words. I think sending for Gwendolines birth certificate is a good idea. I will do that tonight.
There is a occupation listed on the census for John Philpotts as Painter. Can I use this info to find out more?? Last night I took the names and dates of birth of all those listed in the 1911 census household and tried to find them on the 1901 census. No dates, names or birth place's that linked. Aarrhhhhh!
Also the address given on the birth certificate does not have them living there in the 1901 census and when I looked on roots.co.uk for the occupants in 1911, Herefordshire is not listed. Is there anywhere else I can search the address? Thanks Herdy
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There is a occupation listed on the census for John Philpotts as Painter
Last night I took the names and dates of birth of all those listed in the 1911 census household and tried to find them on the 1901 census. No dates, names or birth place's that linked. Aarrhhhhh!
Then you must have found Annie Evans??
1901 census
Annie Evans 26 unmarried laundress b Staffs Newcastle
Annie 4 b Leyster Hereford
Alice 20 sister b Newcastle Staffs
RG13 Piece 2493 Folio 97 Page 12
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This John on the 1901 census living in Adams St Leominster Hereford
Richard Philpotts b 1846 Bromyard Widow General Labour
William b 1877 Brierly Hill Staffordshire
John b 1883 " "
Could Richard born 1912 be named after his grandfather?
Margp
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Hi Herdy
Who was the informant on Richards Birth Certificate, and looking at the information so far I would say that the family on the 1911 census does belong to Richard b 1912 I think that the odds of finding two people with the same names as Richards parents living together are very slim
Margp
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There is a occupation listed on the census for John Philpotts as Painter
You appear to have a different John Philpotts in 1911 if he was a painter
Are you looking at the entry which shows his birthyear as 1883?
I cannot thank you ladies enough for your wise words. I think sending for Gwendolines birth certificate is a good idea. I will do that tonight.
Last night I took the names and dates of birth of all those listed in the 1911 census household and tried to find them on the 1901 census. No dates, names or birth place's that linked. Aarrhhhhh!
Then you must have found Annie Evans??
1901 census
Annie Evans 26 unmarried laundress b Staffs Newcastle
Annie 4 b Leyster Hereford
Alice 20 sister b Newcastle Staffs
RG13 Piece 2493 Folio 97 Page 12
Yes he was a painter and it looks like Annie lied about her age do you think that Annie aged 4 is Elise
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Hi,
I wonder if this is their marriage much later on, or just coincidence :-\
John PHILPOTTS Sep Q 1941 Leominster 6a 2061
Annie EVANS
As John is shown as married in 1911 maybe they had to wait for his wife to die so they could marry, I have seen this happen before.
Regards,
Daisy
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Hi,
I wonder if this is their marriage much later on, or just coincidence :-\
John PHILPOTTS Sep Q 1941 Leominster 6a 2061
Annie EVANS
As John is shown as married in 1911 maybe they had to wait for his wife to die so they could marry, I have seen this happen before.
Regards,
Daisy
My thoughts too Daisy
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Hi everyone,
I have checked out all of the places your suggested and the names and dates seem to be adding up. However,on presented the findings to my mother feeling very please with myself, she said that my grandmother ( richards wife) had always spoke of the 'old boy' coming over from Ireland and setting these boys up. ???
I am also intreaged by Frederick Philpotts ( Phillpotts), who his mother/Richards wife was and what happened to her. Any ideas??? I know one thing, it all went on in Bridge Street, Leominster!!! :o
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Hi Herdy
This may be the birth record for Ferderick
Frederick C J Phillpotts
Oct Qtr 1904
Leominster
6a
531
I have looked for a marriage for John between the 1901-1911 census with no luck, it would be interesting to know if Annie was his mother, or someone else, I believe that a child could be registered, with there father's name out of wedlock, as long as they were both at the registration or the father registered the child,have you received the birth certificate for Gwendoline ?
Marg
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Hi Marg
Herdy has that info - we have been corresponding via pm. It is very clear that John & Annie were not married but had children together.
It is very likely that John was already married to somebody else when he and Annie started living together which prevented them marrying before 1941
The best way forward is that 1941 marriage cert - John shoud be around 58yrs old and Annie around 59yrs old
If we are right and John was married previously - it should show him as a widower and Annie as a spinster which will be proof positive of what we have said in previous replies and in my pm's to Herdy
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1881 Census
Richard Phillpotts b 1848 Bromyard
Mary " b 1851 Shropshire
William b 1874 Brierley Hill
Alfred b 1876
James b 1879
Living at 3 John St Round Oak Brierley Hill
Margp
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Thank you Carole for keeping me in the loop
Margp
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Thankyou MargP and CaroleW. Have ordered the marriage certificate of John and Annie :)
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Hi Marg
Herdy has that info - we have been corresponding via pm. It is very clear that John & Annie were not married but had children together.
It is very likely that John was already married to somebody else when he and Annie started living together which prevented them marrying before 1941
The best way forward is that 1941 marriage cert - John shoud be around 58yrs old and Annie around 59yrs old
If we are right and John was married previously - it should show him as a widower and Annie as a spinster which will be proof positive of what we have said in previous replies and in my pm's to Herdy
Do you have all of the census information for Richard b 1847 I don't want to post them if you already have them
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Hello All,
Not sure if this is the right family of Philpotts,but i have found Richard Phillpotts in 1881 in Kingsinford with his wife Mary who was born abt 1851 in wee Hill(clee Hill and had 3 sons William,Alfred,James.By 1891 Richard was living in Leominster(under the name of philpott) and had one more son birth abt 1882 in Brerly Hill.
His wife in 1891 was a Mary A Philpott born abt 1847 in Ledemore,near Weobbly Herefordshire.All so living with Richard in 1891 are members of the Lowe family.
In 1901 i have found a Mary A Philpott living in Ludlow ,she says she was single and born abt 1846 in Ludlow,could this be the first wife to Richard?
Hope you do not mind me adding this post.
Robert
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Hi Rob
The 1881 and 1901 census are on earlier posts. Richard was a widow on the 1901 census, I do have the information on all census for Richard, but because this as been discussed via a PM I am awaiting confirmation to see what information is needed, and it does look like Richard married twice the first to Mary I think her maiden name maybe Morris? and the second to Mary Ann Lowe in 1888 Leominster
Margp
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Hi Marg
Yes I have got access to the census you asked about, but have not had time to study it yet. I will have a look tonight. :)
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Hi Herdy
Thank you, let us know about the marriage for John and Annie it would be nice to know after all our hard work
Margp