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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: Noandra on Sunday 02 October 11 05:09 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find more information on Mary Ann WINGROVE especially her parents, she was born abt 1818 in Flaunden, Hertfordshire and married 1854 in Watford, Hertfordshire to John BALDWIN b 24/2/1824 at Bovingdon, Hertfordshire.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi
To save duplication of effort and of what you may already have, would you tell what you already have?
Ray
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Mary Wingrove and John Baldwin had 4 children Alfred 1850, William 1856, James 1858 and Edwin 1861. William Baldwin second son is a direct ancestor b 23 Sep 1856 Chalfont, St Peters, Buckinghamshire married to Augusta Mary Willsher on 16 Mar 1879 in Datchet, Buckinghamshire, England they arrived in Australia on the ship "Stracathro" in Sep.1882 and had 7 children.
Mary died in June 1867 Amersham, Buckinghamshire, England, Great Britain, census 1861 at 60 Denham Rd, Minings Farm, Amersham, Chalfont, England
John Baldwin husband, was married twice, his 1st wife was Mary Ann Nash married 11 Oct 1847 St John the Baptist, Middlesex, England & I don't have any information on her or if she had any children or where she was born or died.
I have no information on Mary's Wingrove's parents. I hope this helps.
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Hi
1861 from your info ..............
1861 RG9 848 12 ChalfontStPeter District7 page12
John 40 Farm Bailiff born Bovingdon
Mary Ann 43 born Flaunden
+ 3 children born ChalfontStP (not Alfred who should be "10")
Therefore 1851? .................
1851 HO101 1717 9 Chesham District 1i page9
John 30 Farm Bailiff born Bovingdon
Mary Ann 33 born Flaunden (abbreviatied to My. An.)
+ Alfred b Bovingdon
1871 RG10 1398 30 Iver District6 page28
John 51 Bovingdon Widower
William 15
Edwin 10
I think that Mary Ann's death reg was probably ....................
1864 Q1 Uxbridge 3a 31 Mary Ann Baldwin
based upon 1871 census, "Huntsmoor Farm" is just SW of Brunel Uni (Uxbridge)
Iver/IverHeath one side of the Middx/Bucks border, Uxbridge the other
Ray
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Do you think Alfred may have been the son of Mary Ann Nash the first wife, were there any other children on the 1851 census?
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Sorry , update crossed
Alfred on his own with them.
Ray
ps I am beginning to hink 1 marriage (maybe Uxbridge area maybe Watford )....................................
There are a couple of John Baldwins marrying MaryAnn)
Too much of a coincidence for 1851 / 61 to be different ladies?
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I don't know if this is any help but going back on the Baldwin's line (which may or may not be true) the name was spelt BALDWYN, the the name John seems to have been used for 4 generations. Maybe the marriage is under this name.
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Hi
This may be them in 1841
HO107 441 9 32 P12, Hertfordshire > Hemel Hempstead > Kings Langley > District 8 > Page 6
"Mauldens"
John Baldwin 60 Farmer
Elizh Baldwin 55
Ellen Baldwin 25
John Baldwin 20 <-------
Edwin Baldwin 10
Emma Baldwin 10
Mauldens is very probably Hogspit Bottom , the census mentions "Shantock" "Maulden".
New Maulden Farm and Shantock Farm are opposite each other on Venus Hill.
A walk away is Shantock Hall, as is Flaunden.
R
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Hi
Query - Where did the 23rd Sept 1856 birth date come from?
Is it on a document?
? Christenings ...........................
Alfred Baldwin
Birth Date: 2 May 1850
Christening Date: 1 Sep 1850
Christening Place: Bovingdon, Hertfordshire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: John Baldwin
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
William Baldwin
Birth Date: 14 Aug 1855
Christening Date: 30 Dec 1855
Christening Place: Bovingdon, Hertfordshire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: John Baldwin
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
James Baldwin
Birth Date: 12 May 1858
Christening Date: 28 Aug 1859
Christening Place: Bovingdon, Hertfordshire, England
Age at Christening: 1
Father's Name: John Baldwin
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Edwin Baldwin
Birth Date: 13 Feb 1861
Christening Date: 6 Sep 1861
Christening Place: Bovingdon, Hertfordshire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: John Baldwin
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Ray
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Death certificate shows he died at 78yrs & 2 mts on 13-10-1933. I don't have his birth certificate, the rest of the information you have seems to fit.
I thought John's (b 1821) parents were John and Mary Kendall - but this may be incorrect.
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Hi
Please may I add my twopence worth. :)
I have a feeling that the Mary Ann Baldwin on the 1851 is in fact Mary Ann Nash, John's first wife, so she was the mother of Alfred.
From the marriage of John & Mary Ann in Hillingdon I see her father is Robert a farmer, from the IGI there are 3 baptisms recorded in Sarratt, for your info Noandra Flaunden & Sarratt are almost the same place.
Mary Ann Nash 13 April 1817, James Nash 5 Dec 1819 & Elizabeth 14 April 1822, parents Robert & Elizabeth. There are also 2 more in Bovingdon, William & Ann Healey.
I have found James Nash 1819 in the 1851 census.
HO107-1715-108-4 Indexed as WASH
Chipperfield Road Bovingdon.
James Nash 29 born FLAUNDEN
Sarah Nash 27
Robert Nash 77 Father, Late Farmer born Horsley Surrey.
1841, Water Lane Bovingdon
HO107-441-8-33-4
Robert Nash 65 Farmer
Mary Nash 21
James Nash 19
Elizabeth Nash 17
William Nash 15
Possible burial for Elizabeth Nash, 21 Jan 1837 aged 55 Bovingdon St Lawrence.
There's a possible death for Mary Ann Baldwin Mar qtr 1852 Watford district. I realise it should be Amersham district if she died in Chesham but perhaps her death was not at home. :-\
So, incredibly it would seem John married 2 different Mary Ann's both born Flaunden. :o
What do you think....
Maddie
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This all seems to be reasonable, thanks so much for your searching. I wonder if Mary Ann could have married twice, her maiden name Nash and then Wingrove, they would be one and the same. Do you think that is possible? I cannot find any records yet.
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Hi
Just a quickie before I go to bed, do you have the birth cert for your ancestor William that states his mother is Mary Ann Wingrove, only I can't find one in the 1851 census & Wingrove is not a name seen much in West Herts or Bucks, which is where we are talking.
Sorry but are you sure the Mary Ann who died in 1867 isn't nee Nash.
Haven't checked properly yet but did I see that John had married an Elizabeth by 1881. :-\
Back tomorrow.
Maddie
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Hi
(I was waiting for Maddie to turn up :) )
Place(s) of Reg - Amersham / Watford / Uxbridge are almost equi-distant from where they seemed to be.
Luckily numeric district 3a covers all three.
I think that Wingrove was Birks (If I can find my note)
I also think that there are two J & MA's (That note is with the other one)
That's all why I started to work back from what was actually known about William (Death Cert).
Ray
My earlier post = 1841 "Mauldens" is also at the end of Water Lane
Maddie's post = 1841 Robert Nash is Water Lane
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I am trying to get my head around all of this, so we have John 60 and Elizabeth 55 Baldwin (parents) of Ellen, John, Edwin and Emma at Mauldens.
Then son John and wife Mary with son Alfred at Warren Farm 1851
Then John & Mary Ann, (parents) William, James and Edwin at Minings Farm 1861
Then John (father) William and Edwin at Huntsmore Farm 1871 (thanks Ray)
If this is right Mary Ann must have died between 1861 and 1871, and Maddie has found that she died Mar 1852.
From the Nash side Robert and Elizabeth are Mary's parents & her siblings are James, Elizabeth, William and Ann Healey. Son James married Sarah. Elizabeth Nash died 21-1-1857. (thanks Maddie)
It seem to appear that there was only one wife for John Baldwin - Mary Ann Nash.
I wonder what happened to Alfred he does not appear on the 1861 census & he would have been 9 years old.
That is a whole lot more information than I had and proof which makes it great.
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Hi
1867 Q2 Amersham 3a 245
Baldwin Mary Ann 49y
:)
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Hi
My post #3.......... consider ....Mary Ann in 1851 & 61, too much of a coincidence not to be same person.
R
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Hi
That death in Amersham 1867 looks good to me Ray. ;D
Alfred seems to be living with his Uncle Job in 1861.
Hilltrotts Farm Beaconsfield Bucks.
Job Baldwin 47 Farmer born Sarratt
Ann Baldwin 47 born Chesham Bucks
Thomas Price 14 Ag Lab Servant born Beaconsfield.
ALFRED BALDWIN 10 Ag lab Servant born Bovingdon.
Baptisms from Family Search for some children born to John & Elizabeth Baldwin.
Joseph bapt 26 June 1803 Sarratt
Kezie bapt 15 Feb 1807 Sarratt
William bapt 15 Feb 1808 Sarratt
Elanah (sic) bapt 26 May 1811 Sarratt
Job bapt 12 Dec 1813 Sarratt
James born 20 Feb 1816 & bapt 5 Nov 1837 Bovingdon
Edwin bapt 25 March 1827 Sarratt
Emma bapt 13 Feb 1831 Latimer
It would seem Elizabeth had 2 late babies, she is living with Edwin aged 24 Cattle Dealer, his wife Mary & their son Charles in Sarratt 1851.
Probable burial for John Baldwin, 22 March 1850 aged 73, Bovingdon, St Lawrence.
I'm still puzzled as to where Mary Ann Wingrove fits in. ???
Maddie
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Hi
I have just checked HALS for Herts marriages & Mary Ann Wingrove married William Jarrad of Horton Kirby Kent, 3rd July 1854 in Watford.
John Baldwin married Jemima Lovett both of Watford so he isn't your John at all. (Don't know why I didn't do it before ;D)
I think we can safely say that your John's wife was Mary Ann Nash although I do think he married an Elizabeth sometime between 1871 & 1881 but haven't yet found the correct marriage. ;)
Let us know what other info you would like with regard to the Baldwin & Nash families if we can help further. :D
Maddie
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Thanks you so much for all your help. Do you think the below are the parents and siblings of John Baldwin & Mary Ann?
Baptisms from Family Search for some children born to John & Elizabeth Baldwin.
Joseph bapt 26 June 1803 Sarratt
Kezie bapt 15 Feb 1807 Sarratt
William bapt 15 Feb 1808 Sarratt
Elanah (sic) bapt 26 May 1811 Sarratt
Job bapt 12 Dec 1813 Sarratt
James born 20 Feb 1816 & bapt 5 Nov 1837 Bovingdon
Edwin bapt 25 March 1827 Sarratt
Emma bapt 13 Feb 1831 Latimer
It would seem Elizabeth had 2 late babies, she is living with Edwin aged 24 Cattle Dealer, his wife Mary & their son Charles in Sarratt 1851.
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Hi
As far as I can see the baptisms in Sarratt are the siblings of John Baldwin, all children of John Baldwin & Elizabeth. Possible marriage on Family Search 8 Oct 1802 Watford for John Baldwin & Elizabeth Edmonds. ???
Back tomorrow.
Maddie :D