RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: CumberlandKitchens on Thursday 29 September 11 21:06 BST (UK)
-
Looking for marriage
1789 HENRY KITCHEN (Sailweaver Foreman) b 13 Mar 1789 Cleator UK
Married about 1813-1818 Cumberland UK Died between 1851/1861 Census
MARTHA SCOTT b 13 Jul 1791 Arlecdon outside Whitehaven (parents John & Sarah)
I have searched the below Bishops Transcripts and have access to them until mid November.
0090679 Whitehaven Holy Trinity (St Bees), 1831-1847, 1849-1854. 1856 (Baptism & Burials only –no marriages)
90681 Whitehaven St James (St Bees) 1856-1878
90683 Whitehaven St Nicholas (St Bees) 1831-183? 1840, 1847, 1849-1855,
90594 Cleator 1689-1812
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Alan Australia
-
Don't have anything firm,however freebmd have a death in Whitehaven 1877 aged 87.
Hugh Wallis batches for Arlecdon,Cleator and St John Beckermet have marriages for Kitchen but not Henry to Martha.
Familysearch also gives a blank.
Ancestry has a public tree for Henry,though it shows he died at 116 years.
How do you know Scott was Martha's maiden name?
-
Don't have anything firm,however freebmd have a death in Whitehaven 1877 aged 87.
Hugh Wallis batches for Arlecdon,Cleator and St John Beckermet have marriages for Kitchen but not Henry to Martha.
Familysearch also gives a blank.
Ancestry has a public tree for Henry,though it shows he died at 116 years.
How do you know Scott was Martha's maiden name?
Thank s for the help in the research.
Henry 116 is a entry put in by someone in Australia on the family tree. This Henry I am looking for is actually the Grandfather of the Henry Kitchen who died in Sydney 1907, so thats where the 116 comes in.
I was given the name Scott by a young reseracher that I met through the Whitehaven Records Office when I was their for a week in Sept 2003.
This Henry Born in Cleator b 1791 m Martha b Whitehaven about 1790 1813-1818 was not on the 1861 Census, which has him deceased between the 1851 to 1861 census.
I have a ref that he possibly is on the 1854 Burials in Whitehaven, but not sure which church.
Alan
-
I think you really need to find all the Childrens Christenings to establish the Parents names.
It is possible that Henry may have been Married twice.
It may be a blended Family.
1851 they have Children;
ROBERT 1818
MARGARET 1822
JOHN 1823
HENRY 1831
All born Egremont
+ Grandsons, HENRY 1848, ROBERT 1850, born St John
If I am correct this is the 1841 Census;
HO107/156/21/St John Beckermet
Henry KITCHEN, 50, Canvas Weaver
Martha, 50
Henry, 10
John, 14
Issabella, 8
Robert, 20, Canvas Weaver
All born in County
Ages rounded of course in 1841
Ok, where is Margaret in 1841?
Isabella may have Married by 1851 Census or moved away.
Trish :)
-
I think you really need to find all the Childrens Christenings to establish the Parents names.
It is possible that Henry may have been Married twice.
It may be a blended Family.
1851 they have Children;
ROBERT 1818
MARGARET 1822
JOHN 1823
HENRY 1831
All born Egremont
+ Grandsons, HENRY 1848, ROBERT 1850, born St John
If I am correct this is the 1841 Census;
HO107/156/21/St John Beckermet
Henry KITCHEN, 50, Canvas Weaver
Martha, 50
Henry, 10
John, 14
Issabella, 8
Robert, 20, Canvas Weaver
All born in County
Ages rounded of course in 1841
Ok, where is Margaret in 1841?
Isabella may have Married by 1851 Census or moved away.
Trish :)
Hi Trish
1861 Census Martha now living in Hensingham age 72 with Son Robert age 42 and Grandson Henry age 13. So the other Grandson in the 1851 Cenus Robert migh have been Margaret's son or Robert died. I must admit I had concentrated on finding Henry m to Martha possibly Scott.
As for Isabella, I have the bishops transcripts for Whitehaven & Cleator, until 15th Nov 2011, and will pursue what happened to all the childre marriage & Deaths if possible.
I have a reference to a death for a Henry Kitchen 1854 Whitehaven,to check out.
Thanks for your help
Alan
-
I had a close look at the 1851 Census and Robert is a widower and Margaret is unmarried. So Isabella have to serah where she was in 1851.
Alan
-
Hi Alan,
I would be the researcher from 2003, but I can't recall anything about Henry's marriage. If the children were born Egremont, maybe the marriage took place there. The IGI is patchy with some parishes. Maybe I found it in the index of the transcript at Whitehaven?
Stephen
-
Thank you Stephen, I did meet you on a friday night in September 2003, and we only had a short discussion.
My connection is John Kitchen from the 1841 Beckermet Census married Alice Cockbain 1856. They moved to Victoria, NZ & then NSW.
I sent a letter to your address last week.
Alan
-
I have a family of KITCHENs living consistently at Far Preston Hows (St Bees/ Sandwith) c 1891 +/- 10 yrs...happy ot share info if relevant?
maryd
-
Sorry - should have said incl Joseph b 1859 Lamplugh (nr Arlecdon) son of John & Mary nee Jenkinson; James B 1872 Lamplugh; John b 1865; Mary b 1877; Sarah B 1866;Nicholas b 1862; ? Jane b 1880; ? Elizabeth b 1874....big(ish) age gap between some children tho.....
maryd
-
Hi Maryd,
I am extremely impressed with the feedback in this forum.
My John Kitchen G/Grandfather left UK in 1862 for Victoria. Father Henry b 13 mar 1789,
They could be related through Robert married march 1780 in Cleator to Isabella (nee Williamson)
THES ARE THE SONS
and John could possibly be the son of Isaac Kitchen Bpstd. 2nd or 9th July,1780 Cleator Cumberland or
Daniel Kitchen (Wath Cleator Moor) 29th October 1786.
and my G/G/Grandfather Henry Kitchen bptsd at Cleator (Wath Cleator Moor) 13 mar 1789, this is the marriage I am looking for he married a Martha (we believe Scott)
I have not pursued Isaac & Daniel at this stage.
Alan
-
Were Robert (1818), Margaret and Henry baptized in Egremont? The only one I can see on the IGI is John (1823) - mother not named. I've noticed a few times in the past that Egremont is poorly covered by the IGI.
I also found no trace of the marriage in the Lancs Marriage Bonds.
Stephen
-
Thanks Stephen,
According to the 1851 Census Robert (widowed) Margaret & John all baptized Egremont.
1841 Census has Henry aged 10, John aged 14, and Isabella age 8
Robert not on 1841 census with his parents, nor Margaret.
1861 census Martha living in Hensingham as head of house and Robert her son there on the night of the Census with his 14 year old son Henry baptized in Low Mill
Alan
-
Hi Alan
If you don't get nything better I'll be in CRO at start of the week and I can see what other clues I can see. Trouble with these rural parishes, many people didn't live where the church was, they wee oin the wilds in between and often wandering, so they turn up all over the show. I'll see what I can see, but I'll have a better read of your posts.
Best wishes
Emms
-
Hi Alan
Whoever mentioned Martha definitely knew something!
From Egremont parish register - original on microfilm:
Henry Kitchin weaver and Martha Scott Spinster marriedIn
by Banns eighteenth October 1813
ByWm Brown Curate
Neither signed
Witnesses William Leviston & Wm Combe or Coombe
(Both of this parish). I notice Henry didn't actually say he was a bachelor, though Martha did say she was a spinster.
Not sure what else you need but if I can help just say.
Best wishes
Emms :)
-
Thank you, Thank you.
it was driving me nuts not being able to find a reference. I will now order the Bishops Transcript for Egremont and get the baptisim dates for their children born in Egremont according to the 1851 census.
Robert about 1818
Margaret about 1822
JOHN b about 1827/8 (my G/Grandfather)
Henry about 1831
Isabella about 1833
I am hoping to come to Whitehaven in 2013, and drag my two sons on a road trip ( both in their 40') they both enjoy a good ale and will look forward to possibly shouting a pint or two for the great people on this RootsChat who have helped me do some resarch from home in Oz.
Alan
-
Hi Alan
You're very welcome! Thank you for the kind response though!
It's lovely to get feedback!
If you like I can check the baptisms but I'll read back up the thread and see if there's anything you can't get in Australia.
The trip over sounds really exciting. UYou'll be able to see all these places!
I wonder if there are any indications of a place in Egremont anywhere?
By the way, my own gg grandfather went over to Victoria, three years before your lot. He definitely went for a job as it had been offered him before he left , but it may have been the lifestyle or ambition.
Although they lost one child still born when they first got there, they had five more healthy children including my ggrandfather, all of whom made it back to England nine years or so later when he himself was ill. Meanwhile my ggrandmother's family whop stayed in Lancashire had umpteen children but she watched five tiny siblings die by the age of five.
Australia was definitely kinder than that to them even with the sea voyage!
Good luck with the search!
Best wishes
Emms