RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: abyrne on Thursday 29 September 11 03:57 BST (UK)
-
My Grandmother, Annie O'Malley, came from County Mayo. She was born 1888. Roman Catholic. She had a brother Tom and other brothers but I do not know their names. She had two sisters Kitt (not sure if this was Kathleen or Catherine) and Mary. Annie moved to Liverpool to work in her uncle Durkins butcher shop Not sure of the spelling or if that is given or surname. 1919 she went to US and married Joseph Peter Conboy in New Haven CT. They had relative there possibly Moran. They then went to Buffalo NY where they lived for the remainder of their lives. Annie's sister's later followed her to US. I don't know her parents names but I was told her mother was married to two unrelated men named O'Malley. The second died of TB.
-
You really need to check all possible records for more details in order to find the family in Ireland. For example, Connecticut marriage certificates list names of both parents. The first available Irish census is 1901 but it's not clear in your post when Annie moved to Liverpool- I had a quick look but couldn't find anyone the right age with siblings Thomas, Mary, Katherine/Kathleen in Co. Mayo.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
-
The passenger manifest for Annie O'Malley's arrival in U.S. given important information.
21 Oct.1919 "Vauban" arrived New York from Southampton, age 34, h-keeper, born Loussburgh, going to uncle Charles Moran 162 Plymouth St. New Haven, uncle Mr. P. Durkin 78 Soho St. L'pool. See www.ellisisland.org for full details.
Loussburgh is Louisburgh a small town in Co. Mayo (Kilgeever Parish, Westport Poor Law Union)- she may have been born there or in another townland in the area.
Going back to the 1901 census there are quite a few O'Malleys in Louisburgh but still can't see Annie and her family. It would be worth checking 1901 and 1911 English census records next.
Have a look at Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html) and My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html).
-
Thank you
-
The problem I am running into in the US records is in the early days in the US her husband Joseph Peter took liberties with his identity. on the 1920 Census his surname is incorrect and she is listed as Anna. I only found them because my Aunt told me what street they lived on before she was born and it was only two blocks long so I searched every record on that street. On the 1930 census he has 3 children ( my father included ) he is using his correct name but gives incorrect years for his birth and immigration. He says 1913 for immigration but I have records of him as witness to marriages in Liverpool after that date. I believe probably 1916 is closer to the truth.
Thank you for the ship information. That is very helpful.
-
x
-
The problem I am running into in the US records is in the early days in the US her husband Joseph Peter took liberties with his identity.
It's fairly common for surnames to be misspelled on the census, ages to fluctuate (seems particularly common with Irish immigrants), and dates of immigration to fluctuate. The person giving the information might not have been literate or may have been unaware of the correct age/dates. Sometimes people sailed back and forth, so the date they gave might not have been the most recent trip.
Do you know when Annie died? A death certificate or an obituary might give further information. If she lived long enough to be on the Social Security Death Index, you could try ordering her initial application as explained towards the bottom of this page: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rwguide/lesson10.htm This usually gives place of birth, parents' names, and other information.
-
I did check the social security index and she is not on it. Nor is her husband Joseph Peter Conboy. He worked for the Railroad so that may be why he isn't on it. She did not work outside the home until he died in 1937. Annie was born Sept 3, 1885 County Mayo was all I was told, and died in Buffalo, NY 1946.
The info on the Vauban sounded like it must be her.
-
Everything about that shiplog seems right though
-
Neither Annie nor her husband will be in the SSDI (Social Security Death Index)- online records cover period after her death.
I'm fairly certain the maifest entry in 1919 is the correct Annie O'Malley. Still not sure why you think that, and the baptismal record, aren't the correct person.
-
The ship record seems spot on and I will continue looking for info based on that.
I did find the Charles Moran family of 162 Plymouth on the New Haven, Ct US 1920 Census
My grandmother had a sister Mary and a sister Kitt who joined her and lived with her in Buffalo. I have their pictures. Mary died of cancer and Kitt married and moved to Boston.
When I pull up Thady & Bridget Malley on 1901 Census they do not have a daughter Mary. Also I was told Annie had a brother Tom who went to work in Liverpool where my father met him during WWII. This family doesn't have a son Tom and I can't find any family in Louisburgh with a father Thady and/or Mother Bridget (names from baptismal certificate of Annie from Kilgeever Parish) that have children Annie, Mary & Tom 1901 or 1911 census. So I am confused.
-
Since you don't know the ages of Annie's siblings it's difficult to find them in the 1901 or 1911 Irish census (if they are still in Ireland- they could easily be in England or somewhere else at that point).
As I said at the start of this thread "You really need to check all possible records for more details in order to find the family in Ireland."
Forget about the Irish records for the moment and start tracing the siblings in the U.S. For example, Mary's death certificate should list names of both parents- if they are not Thady and Bridget then forget about that 1888 baptismal record for Anne.
Annie's marriage certificate should also list her parents' names. Details of parents on sister Kitt's marriage certificate should also be the same.
-
You are right. I will try and find info on Mary & Kitt. I have been having trouble finding Annie & Jos in the early days in US. I believe Joseph may intentionally have been trying to hide his identity. He came over before Annie & he were married with his brother in law who I know was using an assumed name in the US around the time of the Easter Rebellion. Family stories say he jumped ship in NY harbor.
-
This may be of no use at all but there is a Patrick A Durkan 35 yrs with wife and child and a nephew James O' Malley 8 yrs. Patrick is a pig salesman.
I wonder if he is Uncle P Durkin?
1911 free index has a Patrick b 1866 which fits and I just tried looking for a Patrick b 1866 Louisburgh and Patrick Durkin is shown.
-
Thanks. Could be correct I know at some point he owned or ran a butchershop in Liverpool.
Wouldn't be a stretch. in 1871 the commercial directory of Liverpool does show a Butcher at 78 Soho St E. Not him but at least I know the address was a butchershop
-
I Purchased Anne (nee O'Malley) Conboy death record . She died Dec. 30, 1945. It shows her father as William O'Malley and mother as Brigid Durkin (I know this could be the incorrect spelling) Shows DOB as Sept 3, 1885 birthplace Westport, Ireland.
1901 Census does not show William Malley or O'Malley with wife Bridget or Brigid. It may be he was already deceased.
I was told by my aunt, Annie's mother was was married twice. After her first husband died she married a second man also named O'Malley unrelated to her first husband.
-
Just for information - Irish census 1901 has a George and Bridget Dobbyn with stepdaughters Annie and Mary, living in High Street, Westport.
I know you said Bridget married another Malley but thought I would mention it.
I can't see them in 1911.
Marriage Jan- March 1883 Westport vol 4, pg 391 - Bridget Durcan and William Malley amongst the spouses.
I can't find a Dobbyn/Malley marriage though.
-
I found a transcription of Annie’s Birth not the original.
Name: Anne Malley (prefixes were usually dropped it said)
DOB 3 September 1885
Address: Corry
District Louisburgh
Region: South Mayo
Father: William Malley
Mother: Bridget Durkan
Reference: 11-11
It said possible siblings:
Patrick 1887
Mary 1889
Catherine 1890
James 1892
Bridget 1895
Thomas 1896
-
Then I am not sure if it is related .. but on the 1901 census I found Michael Malley at 1 Corrymailley (Corry was shown as address on the Annie birth record transcription that I found today), Aillemore Mayo married to a Bridget with stepson Patrick Malley, Stepdaughter Mary Malley, Stepson Thomas Malley and daughter Honor Malley. Note Stepchildren have same last name.
But Even if Annie age 16 or 17 at this point was out of the house & working. Where are the other littles? Catherine around 11, James around 9 and Bridget around 6.
I searched through as many gravesites as I could find and didn't spot any of these Malley's/O'Malleys. Nor could I find them by searching deaths. I know my aunt said lots of the littles died early. But I know Catherine (Kitt) survived moved to US and Married, and Mary survived and moved to the US also.
-
Also I have written to the Archdiocese of Hartford asking them if they can provide marriage records of Anne O'Malley & Joseph Peter Conboy in New Haven Ct between Oct 21, 1919 when the ship arrived in New York Harbor and the Jan 26, 1920 census when they are married and living on Bardol St in Buffalo, NY.
-
Heywood does this reference to the marriage of William & Bridget show witnesseas
-
I found a transcription of Annie’s Birth not the original.
Name: Anne Malley (prefixes were usually dropped it said)
DOB 3 September 1885
Address: Corry
District Louisburgh
Region: South Mayo
Father: William Malley
Mother: Bridget Durkan
Reference: 11-11
It said possible siblings:
Patrick 1887
Mary 1889
Catherine 1890
James 1892
Bridget 1895
Thomas 1896
There was a James 8 yrs in Liverpool with uncle Durkin in 1901.
The family you have in 1901 (Michael as stepfather) are here in 1911 (spelling variation)
Mally (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Aillemore/Corrymailley/746075/)
Bridget now a widow and more children from 2nd marriage.
There is an Anne here 25 yrs though. At some point she is transcribed as 'daughter in law' but the actual census says daughter.
Re the marriage of William and Bridget - that is just the index reference. You would have to apply for the details: http://www.groireland.ie/
You could check out this site - more expensive (about 10 euros) though than sending for the cert but I think it is more instant Mayo Ancestors (http://www.mayoancestors.com/default.aspx?DepartmentID=MA&DepartmentIndex=2)
I couldn't find a Michael/Bridget marriage but then tried Mayo ancestors and there is this (two variations of same I am assuming)
Michael and Bridget (http://www.mayoancestors.com/default.aspx?SID=979014&Type=MA)
heywood
-
Thank you.
I saw that reference on Mayo Ancestors also for Bridget & Michael Mally. I was a little hestitant to spend 10 euros to find it was the wrong one :(
The reference 11-11 to Annie's birth came off that site.
Poor Bridget didn't have much luck with her husbands.
I'll check out all this info you've given me today.
-
Civil Marriage Record. Centre Name: South Mayo District Name: Louisburgh Date: February 22, 1883
William Malley age 26, farmer, bachelor, address: Curra Father: James Malley, farmer
to
Bridget Durcan age 24, farmer's daughter, spinster, Address: Waste Land, Father: Martin Durcan, farmer
Witnesses: Thomas Durcan, Mary Durcan
Reference 8-11
-
What does this mean? Why does Bridget's second husband' address show as CURRA? What is CURRA?
Civil Marriage Louisburgh district Reference 10-2
Name Michael Maley Batchelor
Occupation Farmer
Address Curra
Name Bridget Maley Widow Farmers wife
Address Curra
Date of Marriage 29 June 1898
Husband's Father Thady Maley Farmer
Wife's Father Martin Maley Farmer
Witness 1 Edward Maley
Witness 2 Winifred Maley
but this is her right?
-
Hi again,
I would think that 'Curra' is a variation of 'Corry'.
You could check with the library to see Louisburgh library (http://www.mayolibrary.ie/en/FindABranch/Louisburgh/)
The census has this Thady Malley (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Aillemone/Corryaughany/1604481/) who has a son Ned. The address is Corryaughany.
There are 3 townlands: Corryaughany; Corrydavitt and Corrymailley in Aillemore DED.
Bridget's father is shown as Martin Maley rather than Martin Durkan but that could be just a mistake as her married name was Malley.
If you wanted to be really sure, a birth certificate for baby Honor might show that Bridget was formerly Durkan but I suppose it may not. :)
-
I did not know Briget left Ireland. 78 Soho is the address on the ship 's record when Annie travelled to the US
1925 this notice of probate:
O’Malley, Bridget of 78 Soho Street, Liverpool, widow, died 23 March 1915 at Winwick near Warrington Administration Liverpool. 29 December to Patrick O’Malley butcher £ 26 5s 4d.
(note I believe this to be her eldest son, Anne’s younger brother)
Record of Catholic burial
25 March 1915
Ford Cemetery
Liverpool Lancashire England
51 years old H 508
So, Bridget was in Liverpool and had passed away before Annie sailed to the US.
from Record of Roman Catholic Burial ref H 508 is the gravesite in Ford cemetery
The site map shows buried there O'Malley
the Deeds on file for site H508 date 8 April 1898 surname: Durkin owner: Mr Patrick Alfred
Now I was told previously about young James O'Malley living with Uncle Patrick A Durkin but I did not know how to connect them. I think this gets me a little closer.
Death notice or probate
Durkin, Patrick Alfred of 10 Prescot Drive Newsham Park Liverpool died 11 Jan 1933 Administration 1 May to Helen Durkin widow and Martin Francis Durkin meat salesman. Effects £1127 4s 9d.
and before that
1901 Liverpool census:
Civil Parish of Liverpool Ecclesiastical Parish: St Mary Magdelene,
Ward of Municipal Burrough: St Anne's Wars
Address: 24 Seymour St
Patrick A Durkin head age: 35 occupation:Pig Cattle Salesman, Employer, worker or own account: Employer Where born: Ireland
Helena Durkin age 24 wife
Martin F Durkin age 6 months son
James O'Malley age 8 nephew (note Bridgets Son James age 8 was missing from the 1901 census in Ireland)
-
You have done very well there and this is bringing it all together - congratulations. :)
I just have to say though that I did mention James with Uncle Durkin earlier and then this was strengthened when you posted the baptisms. ;)
It looks as though Bridget and remaining family left after 1911 to join her brother and family in Liverpool.
It seems strange that there was such a big gap between her death and the administration of her estate. Also, Winwick, was a well known mental asylum - I'm not sure if it was any other kind of hospital but it may be that Bridget was a patient there.
Her death certificate might help:
Mar 1915 Warrington 8c 359
Bridget O' Malley 51 yrs
heywood
-
I thought it was odd that it took 10 years as well. I found it quite by accident hunting around for other O'Malleys in Liverpool. I was hunting 78 Soho St.
I believe the address is associated with the butcher shop. I found an old liverpool picture on line referring to the piggeries on Soho Street and also an old 1871 Commercial Directory of Liverpool p. 169 under category Butchers Walker E. and T. 78 Soho St E. But it seems people lived on the premises somewhere as well.
I knew Annie was in Liverpool that is where she met my grandfather. I knew Mary & Catherine came to the U.S. and lived with Annie & Joseph Peter for a while. I knew Tom was running Uncle Durkin's butcher shop during WWII when my father met him.
This has identified Patrick, the butcher as inheriting Bridget's little estate.. James was in Liverpool with Uncle Durkin.. but where is little Bridget b. 1895? I never heard of another sister..like there was one but we don't know her name kind of thing . I did hear of steps but was told they all died young. Most of the databases like mayo ancestors don't go beyond 1900 if you are just guessing dates to see if she passed away young.
-
Bridget isn't on 1901 census with the family.
There are a lot of Bridget Malley births 1895 and there is one death in the indexes for a Bridget - age 0 in 1896 ... a possibility?
-
Possible. But if The Michael Maley marriage to Bridget the widow ( I did ask mayoancestors if that is a transcription error showing her father Martin as Maley instead of Durcan...don't know if they wil respond to me or check) is the right family, then 10 years later Michael has already passed away. On the 1911 census Honor (11) has younger sisters Margaret (9) and Ellen (7) also there. My grandmother, Anne (25) has returned I suppose to help her mother.
Bridget didn't answer any of the questions regarding children born or children still alive on the 1911 Census unfortunately. So I cannot verify other children which may have died between census 1901 & 1911.
My Aunt, Anne's daughter, told me this in an email prior to my finding the info:
"Dear Annie, My mother's father died, and her mother married again. Both men were O'Malley's, but not related to one another. My mother was the oldest of 15 siblings and the second O‘Malley had TBC all the children of the second Marriage did too. And my mother nursed them till they died. She especially loved a little one named Ellie who eventually died also"
Prossibly this Ellen was the Ellie my aunt referred to. Oh and I am named after my grandmother in case that is confusing.
-
I think the scenario you have is right. There may be baptisms/deaths in church records perhaps 1901-1911.
As to the name, the Irish form is Maille, so you do see Malia/Melia, or hear the pronunciation of the name with a longer 'a' sound. Also, I don't think spellings were consistent.
-
Yes. I know the spellings for O'Malley and Durcan are all over the place. Same person different spelling on almost every document.
But it's funny I could find a civil and church record for the marriage of Michael and Bridget. I could not find a church record for the marriage of William & Bridget only civil record. I also could not find baptism reference for any of the children only birth.
A Mayo website I was on said send an email to Father Mattie Long on (*) for church records in the Kilgeever Parish. So I did. But maybe they get a million emails. We'll see if anyone responds.
Mayoancestors responded and said they forwarded my request to review the Michael and Biridget marriage record for errors to the South Mayo Centre.
(*) email address removed in accordance with Rootschat policy
-
It may be that the church records are only in part because they are very poor or missing.
-
Well nothing ventured nothing gained I guess. If I don't get any response about the church records, I'll look elsewhere:)
I did request Bridget's Death Cert from the GRO to see what it can tell me. Response date is Nov 7 and then mail time so it will be awhile.
-
Looking at Family Search records
Kilgeever (http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=427975&disp=Parochial+registers+of+Louisburgh+%28May%20%20&columns=*,0,0) it does look as though they would not be complete.
However, as you say, there is always hope.
I know the parish my family are recorded in has great big gaps and some that are illegible with all the variations in spellings too. :)
-
Ok. So I always ask myself is that really worth paying for. You know you could drop a bundle in 15 minutes : )
I couldn't find death record for Anne's father but I found a gravestone transcription in Killeen Graveyard, Kilgeever Parish 1897. So I thought ok I'll go for it and kick myself when it gives me nothing of value. Was I happy to be wrong!
In Fond Remembrance Of WILLIAM O’MALLEY, Curra Malley Died 1 Dec. 1897
And His Wife BRIDGET Died 1915 Also Their Daughter BRIDGET 1899 MARY 1928 R.I.P
Now it doesn't give gravesite number. So how do I find out who was updating this stone. What the gravesite number is and who owns it? Any ideas?
It solves the mystery of baby Bridget.
But Bridget (nee Durcan) died in Liverpool.
Mary died of cancer in Buffalo NY and is buried in the same cemetery as my grandmother.
-
Just because a name is on a gravestone doesn't mean that particular person is buried in that plot. Perhaps William was buried there and the family added Bridget's name (she could have been buried there or in Liverpool really). How about checking local newspaper to see if her death is mentioned.
Another possibility os that the stone is more recent than the first 3 deaths- otherwise baby Bridget's death in 1899 should come after William's in 1897.
There may not be any graveyard records (other than showing the owner of each plot).
-
Yes. I realize the others wern't buried there. But was pondering who might be updating the stone as late as the 1928 death of Mary in the US
Would you be able to suggest local publications I might hunt through please.
-
It wasn't uncommon for money to be sent back to Ireland for gravestones to be erected and names added to an existing stone. Not sure what the local newspapers would have been but perhaps someone else will be know.
-
Just to add to Agahdowey's post, the grave may have been updated many years later with those names, not as each one died.
You could try contacting the local area to see if there are records - perhaps the library or this site Louisburgh heritage (http://www.louisburgh-killeenheritage.org/page_id__50_path__0p2p.aspx).
As you have already posted, Bridget is interred in Ford Cemetery Liverpool. Perhaps Patrick or James (if he returned to England) updated the graves.
-
Thank you.I will keep looking
I looked at pictures of Headstones in Killeen but this one wasn't among them.
Since the dates are out of order I supposed either the headstone was not placed when William died or the inscriptions were updated after Bridget died in 1915 and again to add Mary or all at once after Mary died in the US
-
I saw the 1911 UK census for Patrick Durkin in Liverpool. He has more children but James O'Malley is no longer living with him.
Anne and Thomas are still in Ireland with their mother Bridget (widow).
But I don't know how to go about finding Patrick, James, Catherine and Mary.
I know Catherine and Mary were still alive because they traveled to the US and lived with Anne for a while. Both unmarried. Catherine (Kitt) married Jack Phibin and moved to Boston. Mary was engaged but died of cancer before she married.
1915 death notice says Bridget left her little estate to Patrick.
The address of 78 Soho St that Anne gives as her last address on the ship and is Bridget's last address before her death is not on the 1911 UK census. Liverpool, Holy Trinity / St Ann/ Exchange Division / ED 8 goes from 74 Soho to 80 Soho no 78 just like the 1901 UK.
-
Hello again,
do you have a copy of the will? The notice I see says that Administration was given to Patrick which I don't think is the same as leaving her estate to him. As we saw, there is a delay in granting the administration. There may be some documentation with the papers with an address etc for Patrick.
It is very difficult to track Patrick and James due to the popular surname.
-
No. How do I get a copy of the will. I requested a copy of the Death record but I won't get it until sometime in November they said.
My cousin had James Patrick and Thomas queried on GenesReunited with their birth year and none came up despite the common name.
-
Look here http://www.ancestor-search.info/NAT-Probate.htm
-
Thanks Heywood. Have a great day!
-
I'm off to bed now ;)
-
I forget about the time difference ::).
But this is interesting from that site you gave me. It said in a very small number of cases the probate might be granted many years after the person died and if you don't find a probate record within the first few years, the next most likely time to search is the year in which their heir died because it is most likely to come to light at that time.
Well the next record item after Bridget's is this:
O'Malley, Patrick of Roxborough, County Mayo died 24 February 1925, Probate London 23 December to James O'Malley farmer Effects £96 5s
Maybe a coincidence? and if he was in Roxborough County Mayo any idea why the probate would be in London. or does that mean that he was born in Roxborough which would make him the wrong person I guess.
-
I'm still on my way to bed :D
That's really interesting about the delay.
I can't find a Roxburgh, Mayo (Louisburgh??)
Neither can I find a death for a Patrick O' Malley in 1925 :-\
The dates of grants of admin don't work out though. Patrick's granted to James the week before Bridget's was granted to him.
-
Bridget died in 1915 This is what it looked like ( I did not cut & paste I typed) but the second date doesn't indicate the year.
O’MALLEY Bridget of 78 Soho-street Liverpool widow died 23
March 1915 at Winwick near Warrington Administration
Liverpool 29 December to Patrick O’Malley butcher.
Effects £26 5s 4d.
-
Hello again,
the probates were granted in 1925.
Patrick died February 1925 in Mayo. My point was that if he was already dead, then he couldn't be the Patrick Malley (mentioned in Bridget's probate)
Rocksborough North and South are in Ballindine Parish as you say.
There are Malleys there in 1911. (no Patrick)
heywood :)
-
I'm sorry Heywood. I am really confused. she died in 1915. It wasn't in the index until 1925. But This Patrick died in 1925 and that may have been the trigger that brought her administration to light if indeed they were related. This Patrick it says died in 1925...ten years later. Right? I'm sorry if I am being dense & missing something. Please explain it in a little more detail, because I don't understand. Thanks Anne ???
-
I don't understand it either but this is what I was thinking it meant:
1915 Bridget died but for some reason her will could not be sorted.
1925 Administration of the will was granted to Patrick on 29th December 1925
However Patrick (Mayo) died in February 1925 so he would already be deceased when administration was granted to Patrick(butcher)
you could send for Bridget's papers to see what is revealed.
-
Ok. I understand what you are saying. I sent for her death record last month from the GRO. they gave me a date of Nov 7. I'm not sure how long after that I will receive it
-
Well that's not long now - hope it's sooner rather than later.
Please keep us informed ;)
-
Bridget O'Malley's Certified copy of record of Death arrived. Very disappointing. It doesn't give her date of birth, Parents names, or anything to help me search her further. Only that she died of cancer County Asylum Winwick a widow of O'Malley. They didn't even list O'Malley's first name. I don't know where to go from here.
-
English death certificates are very limited in information and as she died in hospital the informant was probably a hospital employee.
What are you now looking for? There is the probate which may have a bit of information - an address for Patrick etc.
-
Hi again. The US death certificates give date of birth and parents names as well as where they were born. I would like to be able to know her mother's name and when and where she was born. Because I would like to prove the connection between Bridget and Patrick Alfred Durkin. Patrick's census info says he was born in Ireland although he is already in Liverpool as a teenager apprentice 1881. He has James O'Malley nephew living with him on 1901 census. Patrick was the owner of the gravesite where Bridget was buried. I believe he was her brother. But I do not have any actual record of that. Ptarick's oldest son was Martin F. Durkin. Bridget's Father was Martin Durcan/Durkan. But there are a lot of Martin Durkans with daughters Bridget born approx 1864.
Do you know how I go about getting the probate record. I know what happened to all Bridget's daughters. But I do not know anyting about the sons except that my father met Thomas in Liverpool during WWII still running the butcher shop.
-
Look here http://www.ancestor-search.info/NAT-Probate.htm
Looks like you will have to apply to York. It may not help but it would be worth trying.
-
There is a Patrick Durkan born 1865, Louisburgh -parents Martin D and Ann Stanton. There are other births with these parents - Stanton/Staunton.
I can see a Patrick in 1881 but not 1891 - nor a marriage to Helen/Helena in Liverpool.
There is a record of the grant of his probate too in 1933.
I was hoping that he married in Liverpool and we could get his father's name :(
-
Between 1848 and 1864 i could find men named Martin Durcan/Durkan/ married women with names Mary Walsh, Catherine Durcan, Ciscilia Colman, Mgt. Jordan, Nancy Durkan, Catherine Muldowny, Mary Foley, Bridget Devanny, Catherina Nolan, Brigid Nary, & Honor Kilbride in Mayo.
Buried in Killeen, there is a Martin Durkan that died 24th April 1893 at age 57 and his wife Annie who died Aug. 1904 at age 60 Years. This may be the one you are referring to.
The transcription also says their daughter Annie died 3rd April 1942 (so she would have beeen born 1872) Aged 70 Years. & her husband Jim McDonnell died 14th July 1938 at age 71
I can't find reference to the daughter Annie's birth around 1872 to see if I could find her siblings.
I think Bridget was born 1964 based on her death record showing age 51 in 1915 and 1901 & 1911 census info. However the Marriage record of Bridget to William Malley Feb 22 1883 said she was 24.
I checked for a marriage of Patrick Durkin 1900 in Mayo just in case they were married there but nothing there either. He did name his first son born Sept 1900 Martin F.
Who are the other births to Martin D and Ann Stanton.
-
Louisburgh
Patrick Durkan 17 Feb 1865 Martin Durkan, Anne Stanton
Mary Durkin 2 Jan 1868 Martin Durkin, Anne Staunton
Catherine Durkan 22 Jul 1869 Martin Durkan, Anne Staunton
Michael Durkin 20 Sep 1873Martin Durkin, Anne Staunton
Anne Durken 20 Nov 1875 Martin Durken, Anne Staunton
Margaret Durkins 16 Feb 1878 Kilgeever Martin Durkins, Anne Stanton Durkins
There is a Bridget 4 Nov 1867 parents Anthony Durkan and Mary McGirr
-
Thanks.
My Briget's marriage record to William O'Malley definitely says father Martin Durcan address Wasteland (whatever that is) . Most of the records indicate she was born approx 1864 except the marriage trnscription said she was 24 in 1883. But the death record says she was 51 in 1915 and the 1901 & 1911 census info pretty much agrees with that.
The Witnesses were Thomas Durcan and Mary Durcan.
-
...
My Briget's marriage record to William O'Malley definitely says father Martin Durcan address Wasteland (whatever that is) .
....
English and Irish marriage certs show current residences of the bride and groom - which may or may not be the address of their fathers at the time
Shane
-
Heywood,
Sure looks like you are right!! That's Patrick's family. I found some of them on the 1890 census at 47 Stafford, Liverpool
DURKIN, Patk A Head Single M 25 1866 Pig Salesman Ireland
DURKIN, Catherine Sister Single F 21 1870 Ireland
DURKIN, Michael Brother Single M 17 1874 Butcher Ireland
TOOLE, Richard Single M 25 1866 Pig Dealers Assistant Ireland
HEATING, Mary A Servant Single F 20 1871 General Servant Domestic Liverpool
So glad he is a pig salesman. It makes him easier to spot.
But I still don't know how he is related to Bridget ???
-
According to http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/
Martin Francis Durkin's mother is Ellen Caulfield.
It just seems so strange that there isn't a marriage for Patrick A and Ellen/Helena.
His baptism though doesn't give a father's name ??? but as he is registered as Durkin perhaps they just weren't married but lived together and continued to have children.
-
That is most confusing then. I found a marriage reference for Martin F Durkin West Derby Lancashire 1932 Jul Aug Sep spouses name Anne Caulfield said vol 8b p 1022 same last name ?
Then Martin Francis Durkin Liverpool Lancashire born 6 Sept 1900 Civil Registration Death 1982 Jul Aug Sep vol 36 p 0247.
-
I would imagine that Martin's wife, Anne, was a relative of his mother, Helen.
This family is perhaps related too - a baptism for Helen Caulfield 1897 - parent Francis.
I just found the baptism of Mary Agnes Durkin in 1906- parents Patrick and Helen. The Godparents are Michael Durkin and Agnes Caulfield.
-
There are as we know a few Durkins (variations) in L'pool at the time. However, I will just post these - the one I just found is interesting.
Catholic Marriages (I have translated the Latin form to English form of names)
(All with parent Martin Durkin)
Catherine Durkin and Daniel McArdle 16th May 1899 St Nicholas
a witness is Margaret Durkin
Margaret Durkin and Timothy Hughes 11th Jun 1911 Sacred Heart
a witness is Helen Durkin
Helen (or Ellen) Durkin and Thomas Peter Walsh 25 Oct 1913 Sacred Heart
a witness is Ann(a) O'Malley 78 Soho Street :)
1901 the McArdles have Margaret Durkin and James Durkin as 'relatives' James is a butcher
I can't say that all these are relevant except for Ann O'Malley as a witness.
There are many Durkins ::)
-
Thanks. That's very cool. Who is the other witness with Anne O'Malley?
That address just keeps popping up. I am hoping to find the connection
On the ship record Annie says Uncle P Durkin 78 Soho St.
Patrick Alfred Durkin owns the burial site where Bridget is buried with her last address 78 Soho St. But it doesn't appear there's any way he's her brother most perplexing
the address 78 soho doesn't appear in the 1901 or 1911 census info.
-
The other witness is Frederick Murphy Gt Howard Street
-
Thanks doesn't ring any bells. I did however notice that on the 1881 census one of the other "servants" with Patrick Durkin was Thomas STANTON.
-
What an intricate web of names :-\
-
Indeed.
Also found widow Anne Durkin 1911 Census at 24 Moor St Blackburn
Blackburn South Eastern
ED: 2
DURKIN, Ann Head Widow F 73 1838 Chare Woman Ireland County Sligo
DURKIN, Mary Daughter Single F 36 1875 Card Room Slubber Bourn County Lancaster
GENT, Margert Daughter Married F 30 1881 Card Room Slubber Bourn County Lancaster
1 0 years
DURKIN, Annie Granddaughter Single F 15 1896 Ring Spinner Bourn County Lancaster
GENT, Thomas Grandson Single M 7 1904 School Bourn County Lancaster
WARD, Mary Lodger Married F 59 1852 Winder Preston County Lcaster
This accounts for the remaining Durkins except Anne (b. 1875)
-
I wouldn't think that this family are connected.
There are lots of Durkins in Lancashire and that Anne is born Sligo.
-
Thanks. I'll keep looking
-
I find the lack of Census info prior to 1901 unbelievably frustrating . I found this reference
Westport Co Mayo Ireland Directory
1846 incomplete Butchers
DURKIN, Patrick Bridge St
I have no idea how to investigate pre 1901 Ireland to trace this family back. This is quite probably an ancestor. but who knows. Westport is about 9 km from Louisburgh.
-
the directory listing is from Isaac Slater's 1846 Directory of Ireland - see : http://www.failteromhat.com/slater/0028.pdf
Shane
-
Thank you. I think it has possible relevance because they are a family of pig salesman/butchers and Westport is only about 5 km from Louisburgh. That is a really wonderful description of Westport.
-
It's been a long time. I still can't connect Patrick Alfred Durkin directly to Bridget Durcan O'Malley. But I did find some poosibilities for tracing Bridget back perhaps.
I started looking for young James O'Malley on the 1901 census he had been living with "uncle" Patrick Durkin in Liverpool and was 8.
So this is what I found. Turns out to no surprise he became a butcher. But now he was with another Uncle ...Michael. What did surprise me was that Annie & Patrick were there. They are on the Irish census in Mayo with Bridget for 1911. But here they are again.
@ Address: 4 Edinburgh Rd Registration & Civil District: West Derby Civil Parish West Derby
Forename Age Gender Relation Marriage Status Years Married Occupation
Durkin Michael 36 Male Head Widowed 2 Butcher
Durkin Martin 10 Male Son Single 0 School
Durkin Margaret 30 Female Sister Single 0 Housekeeper
Durkin Ellen 26 Female Sister Single 0 Shop Assist
Omalley Annie 24 Female Niece Single 0 Shop Assist
Omalley Patrick 23 Male Nephew Single 0 Pork Butcher
Omalley James 18 Male Nephew Single 0 Pork Butcher
Looks like his wife died after only 2 years of marriage. I did find reference to a Michael Durkin marrying a Margaret Walsh Apr-June 1901
So I looked back to 1901 census for Michael & I think this is him. Earlier you had helped me to find a marriage which my grandmother Annie O'Malley was a witness to.
Helen (or Ellen) Durkin and Thomas Peter Walsh 25 Oct 1913 Sacred Heart
witnesses: Ann(a) O'Malley 78 Soho Street , Frederick Murphy Gt Howard St
The head of house where Michael lived was Michael Walsh and his son was Thomas Walsh. Possibly this Thomas Peter Walsh..don't know
So I had found 4 Bridget Durcans born between 1859 & 1864. This is the only one related to the Walsh family. Perhaps Uncle Michael Durkin may be Bridget’s brother. But I don't know.
Her marriage record to William O'Malley 22 Feb 1883 said she was 24 so she was born approx 1859-1860. But the 1901 &1911 Census records and her death record indicate she was born around 1864. Later records are sometimes less true. Perhaps she told her second younger husband she was younger than she actually was and continued to stick to it.
????? Is this my Bridget- Still no relation shown to Patrick Alfred Durkin
Bridget Durkin b. 14 June 1860 Christened 30 June 1860
Father Martin Durkin Mother: Margaret Walsh
Sponsors: Cate Walsh/ Michael Durkin
Address Riverstown Parish Kilmoremy/ Ballina
Siblings:
Mary 1856 (Bridget named a daughter Mary)
Ellen 1858 (Bridget named a daughter from second marriage Ellen)
Cate 1862 (Bridget named a daughter Catherine)
Mary 1856 (Bridget named a daughter Mary)
Martin 1866
Sarah 1868
Margaret 1870
Dominick 1872
Michael 1873
Anne 1875 (Bridget named a daughter Anne)
Kind Regards,
Anne
-
Buried in a related grave to H508 Ford RC Cemetery grave I356 owner Mary W O'Malley is Mary Winifred O'Malley of 47 Kingway L23 age 74 1972 her death info claims James Patrick O'Malley.
also
Thomas O'Malley of 154 Winterburn Heights L12 died age 69 16 Mar 1966 his wife was Lilian
Patrick O'Malley 74 Wigan Rd Ormskirk died 24 October 1946
James Joseph O'Malley 227 Great Homer St died 22 June 1932 his wife was Mary Winifred. Their chldren were Maureen and James Patrick O'Malley
-
Hi Heywood
you gave me a possible relationship of Catherine Durkin and Daniel MArdle married 16 May 1899
the 1900 census shows Catherine and Daniel McArdle living at 21 Moor Pl
My great grandmother Bridget Durkin is buried in Ford RC Cemetery H508. Also buried in H508 is Patrick McArdle age 3 months died 20 Jan 1903 of 21 Moor Pl
-
Hi,
is everything coming together now- I do hope so. I am just rereading this thread and it all now seems so complicated. :)
best wishes
heywood
-
Well I found where my grandmother's 3 brothers died..in Liverpool. They are in Ford RC Cemetery as is Bridget. I believe I know where two of them married ..I have sent for their marriage records.
If the marriage of Thomas O'Malley to Lilian Prescott 1931 proves to be correct it appears that they had a son in 1931
James Joseph O'Malley married Mary Winifred Stanton 1923. Stanton was Patrick Alfred Durkin's mother's maiden name. James Joseph and Mary Winifred according to the headstone had children James Patrick b. 1926 and Maureen O'Malley 18 May 1924 to 30 June 2003. Maureen is in the same grave I 356 with her parents
I also sent for My great grandmother Bridget Durcan O'Malley's marriage record to see if there is anything new that is not on the transcription.
I still do not know how Patrick Alfred Durkin is related to Bridget Durcan O'Malley. I do not know who Bridget's mother was, what Bridget's actual birth date or birthplace was.
-
How do you now Patrick Alfred's mother's maiden name?
Added -found it now.
-
So I had found 4 Bridget Durcans born between 1859 & 1864. This is the only one related to the Walsh family. Perhaps Uncle Michael Durkin may be Bridget’s brother. But I don't know.
????? Is this my Bridget- Still no relation shown to Patrick Alfred Durkin
Bridget Durkin b. 14 June 1860 Christened 30 June 1860
Father Martin Durkin Mother: Margaret Walsh
Sponsors: Cate Walsh/ Michael Durkin
Address Riverstown Parish Kilmoremy/ Ballina
Kind Regards,
Anne
I thought that the O'Malley/Durkin connections were from Louisburgh area?
-
Bridget married William O'Malley Louisburgh 22 feb 1883. it says her address was Wasteland and her age was 24. Every record after that shows her as being younger.
Patrick Alfred Durkin was born 17 Feb 1865 Address Tallanbaun Louisburgh South Mayo
1881 census shows him in Liverpool Sawney Pope Street age 16 apprentice provision dealer
1891 census 25 pig saleman 47 Stafford St with brother Michael butcher age 17 and sister Catherine age 21
1901 Age 35 at 24 Seymour St Liverpool with wife Helena (nee Caulfield) Durkin Age 24(son Martin F age 6 months) and Nephew James O'malley age 8 born Ireland missing from Bridget's address after she remarried in Mayo). Bridget stayed at the same address for both marriages Corrymailley County Mayo. 1855 Griffiths show the two address as lessor James O'malley (a) James Malley (Thomas) (b) James Malley (Wm.) Landlord Marquis of Sligo. One home had 2 rooms the other had 3. I do not know what became of Thomas. He is not on the Census for the other building in 1901 or 1911..
1911 census shows Patrick Alfred at 168 Kensington with wife Helen son Martin F and more children
1911 census shows Annie 24 , Patrick 23 and James 18 O'Malley with Uncle Michael Durkin widower also Michael's son Martin age 10 and his sisters Margaret age 30 and Ellen age 26.
Bridget died 1915 in Liverpool of 78 Soho street, the same address my grandmother Annie gave as her last address on the ship Vauban 1919 record to New York Harbor. She also said relative was Uncle P Durkin before leaving Liverpool.
The grave Bridget was buried in Ford RC Cemetery H 508 was owned by Patrick Alfred Durkin. It is related in the records to I 356 where Bridget's sons are buried. But the owner of I356 was Mary W O'Malley.
-
Hi,
I was just meaning that the baptism you posted for Riverstown, Ballina was unlikely to be your Bridget (you ask - is this my Bridget?) as your family are in the Louisburgh area and not Ballina.
regards
heywood
-
Bridget' s first marriage record transcription says her address was Wasteland. I have no idea what that means.
-
Bridget' s first marriage record transcription says her address was Wasteland. I have no idea what that means.
Wasteland is mentioned as a village here (http://www.louisburgh-killeenheritage.org/page_id__119_path__0p4p.aspx) and here (http://www.mayo.ie/dnn/AboutMayo/AllThingsMayoWiki/tabid/377/Page/Doolough/Default.aspx)
-
That's really cool. I just can't find what it may be called now. ireland genweb project has a huge list of towns and townlands of County Mayo 1851 and Wasteland isn't there. I'm trying to find where I can search for Bridget's birth.
Oh and I received the marriage record from County Mayo civil registration service (really fast I thought) the only additional info on it that I didn't already have was:
Marriage Solemnised at : Chapel Louisburgh According to the Rites and ceremonies of the Roman Catholic Churchi
Solemniser: B G Freely R.C.C.
Registrar: T Griffin
Louisburgh No. 1, Westport, Co. Mayo
29 March 1883registration Number: 1659492
-
Even though Wasteland seems to have either disappeared or been renamed, the parish would presumably be the same and therefore the church records.
I can't see that grave record though but am glad you found it.
-
It says "In fond remembrance of William O'Malley Curra Malley died Dec 1897"
then it references his wife and unmarried daughters although they are not buried there
"and his wife Bridget died 1915 Also their daughters Bridget 1899 Mary 1928 R.I.P."
The two Bridgets are in Liverpool. Mary died in Buffalo NY US
-
Agreed but how would I know what parish or church it was. I can't find the village in the 1851 records
-
You would imagine that it was literally 'waste land' that was reclaimed perhaps. :-\
You say that the other Durkans were born 'Tallanbaun' Louisburgh. I an't see this place. I wonder if it is Tallavbaun.
On a modern map it looks as though it is Thullabaun and is close to Corrymailley. I think it would still be Louisburgh church.
-
Of course you are right. Thanks the address is the key to much information sadly still not how Bridget and Patrick Alfred are related yet.
A while ago I found a transcription of a grave for a Martin Durkan in Killeen cemetery.
Have mercy Oh Lord on the soul of Martin Durcan who died 24 April 1883 age 57 and his wife Annie died 1904 age 60 years and their daughter Annie die 3 April 1942 aged 70 and her husband Jim McDonnell died 14 July 1938 age 71 RIP
Well Anne Staunton and Martin Durkan didn’t have a daughter Annie that age and no marriage to a Jim McDonnell so this must not be right, I thought.
Patrick Alfred Durkin was born 1865 Tallavbaun which is in County Mayo DED Owennadernaun.
There were in 1901 only 5 Townlands there
1.) Doovilra 1 home the Hastings family (in 1911 this was no longer on the census )
2.) Inishdegil-more Island 2 homes both had Toole families
3.) Kinnakillew 1 home the Ruddy family and Mary O’Malley aservant age 22
4.) Sixnoggins 1 home the Hugh McDonnell family
5.) Tallavbaun 4 homes
#1&2 Hester family members
#4 McGreal family
#3 James McDonnell and his wife Honor their two children, Mother in law Anne Durkan, sister in law Ellen Durkan---what I thought
So I looked for more Durkan births and found these
Honor Durkan 10 Sept 1871 Martin Durken Anne Staunton
James Durkan 2 Feb 1881 Martin Durken Anne Staunton
Ellen Durkan 1 Jan 1884 Martin Durken Anne Staunton
Then I looked for a marriage between Honor Durkan and Jim McDonnell and found they were married This Honor was a Durcan at the Tallavbaun address :
Husband Name James McDonnell
Husband Address Sixnoggins
Wife Name Honor Durkan
Wife Address Tallavbaun
Date of Marriage 5 May 1895
Husband Father Name Hugh McDonnell
Husband Father Occupation Farmer
Wife Father Name Martin Durkan
Wife Father Occupation Farmer
Witnesses James Durkan, Margaret Durkan
So I looked at the website that shows the actual grave pictures that I didn’t know about until just recently. And I found it and it doesn’t say their daughetr Annie..it says their daughter ONNIE as in Honor.
Martin Durkan and Anne (Staunton) Durkan never left county Mayo as many of their children did.
-
You are working extremely hard.
I have seen many variations of Honor/Honoria/Hanoria/Annie etc.
All seems to point to Bridget being Patrick's sister.
Sorry if it is already here- so you have her marriage information? Is there a father named?
-
His name is Martin Durcan which I knew. But I still don't know her mother's name or her birth year. Her marriage record says she was 24 in 1883. Her death record says she was 51 in 1915. Both cannot be true. I have both in my possession not just transcriptions.
If I knew where Wasteland was I would go house by house :)
There are several Martin Durcans with daughters named Bridget born between 1859 and 1864. None that make sense to be my Bridget. Can't find Anne Staunton as mother of Bridget.
-
If Bridget was born before 1864, there would be no civil registration record for her and even if she was born later, her birth may not have been registered.
Some church records are missing/faded etc- even though some of the same church records are intact.
What you do have is much to connect the Liverpool Durkin family with her. Her children are named as nieces and nephews to the extended family (from memory to more one person); Annie is a witness etc.
It doesn't look as though you will find Wasteland or houses, unless there is some evidence somewhere that it was renamed or absorbed into a larger townland. Perhaps Mayo library or the Louisburgh site may be able to help there.
I can't find marriages for Patrick A, Michael or James Durkin in Liverpool.
Did you say someone else married a Stanton?
-
yes the marriage record I just sent for between James Joseph O'Malley (my grandmother Annie's brother, great grandmother Bridget's son) to Mary Winifred Stanton year 1923 Liverpool vol 8b p;238
probable children -a female 1924 and a male in 1926
-
Michael Durkin (Patrick Alfred's brother) shows being a widower on the 1911 census with my grandmother and here two brothers also living with him.
It says he was married 2 years and has 10 year old son Martin (of course he named him after his father as Patrick Alfred Durkin also named his first son Martin Francis)
Anyway in 1901 there are 2 Martins born in Liverpool Martin Francis and Martin Arthur. So let's see if I can find out who Michael's wife was. I ordered the birth record for Martin Arthur Liverpool vol 8b page 99.
-
Do you have Michael in 1901?
There is a Michael Durkin 28 yrs with a wife Emilie/Emilee 18yrs (born Ireland) and a son Martin A 3 months living 7 Greek Street. He looks to be a Hog Salesman.
I can't see a suitable marriage nor a death. :-\
-
That sure sounds like it could be them.
I lost him between 1891 when he was at 47 Stafford St with his brother Patk A and his sister Catherine and 1911 when he was with his son Martin age 10 , sisters Margaret & Ellen Durkin and niece Annie O'Malley and nephews Patrick & James O'Malley at 4 Edinburgh
Can you see if there is anyone else there with them?
-
No- just a servant, Hettie Jones 18 yrs.
-
where's Wigan? there's a Michael Durkin marriage 8c p 194 Oct- Dec 1900. Could that be any possibility or is that too far away?
-
There is a marriage between Michael Durkin and Ellen Gorman in Wigan and there are Durkins 1901 living in Standish (Wigan area).There are births for Durkin with mother Gormley in Wigan. So this is probably the Wigan couple.
-
The marriage record between James Joseph O'Malley, a Master Pork Butcher, and Mary Winifred Stanton April 13, 1923 arrived in the mail today.
He was age 29, a bachelor, of 140 Lodge Lane, Liverpool, father William O'Malley (deceased) a farmer.
She was age 26, a spinster, of 12 Currie Street, Liverpool, father Patrick Stanton (deceased) a Master Butcher.
The witnesses: Martin F. Durkin (note : Patrick Alfred Durkin's son) and Catherine Stanton
Married in Church of our Lady of Lourdes and St Bernard according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Roman Catholic Church License by Thomas Turner
-
1901 census shows Patrick J Stanton age 30 grocer shopkeeper at 167 Burlington St born Ireland, wife Catherine age 30 also born Ireland, daughters Mary W age 4, & Catherine age 2. Three shop assistant/servants all born Ireland: Patrick I O'Malley age 20, Michael O. Reilly age 19 & Michael McLoughlin age 23. a domestic servant Mary Boylan age 46 and a Nurse Jane Dickinson age 14 both born Liverpool.
1911 census at 9 Limekiln Ln, Liverpool show Patrick Jos. Offal Salesman born Louisburgh Ireland age 36 (10 years later he and his wife only 6 years older) wife Catherine 36, daughter Mary (14) Catherine (12) and Sons Thomas(9), Patrick Joseph (7) and Andrew Miles (less than 1)
So a Louisburgh and butcher connection.
-
The marriage record between Thomas O'Malley and Lilian Robinson arrived.
They were not married in a church. They were married in the Liverpool Register Office 15 April 1931.
He was a bachelor, his father William O'Malley (deceased). Thomas, age 33, bachelor, was a Pork Butcher (Shopman) residence 38 Hopwood St, Liverpool.
Lilian age 22 , spinster, Pork butchers assistant, 39 Louis Street, Liverpool, father William Robinson I believe it says occupation : Oil Mill Hand.
Witnesses were J. Blackburn & M. Blackburn (no idea who they were). It also says married by certificate (not by License like James' said ) I don't know what the difference is between certificate and license
I guess it would make sense they would name their son William.
-
Proof Annie was free to marry
-
birth Record for Martin Arthur Durkin born 30 Jan 1901 finally arrived and had a lot of information. Father: Michael Durkin of 7 Greek St, Mt Pleasant sub-district of Liverpool. Occupation Master Butcher (of course) mother (Here is what we did not know) Emily Durkin formerly McCrann.
Does this help find any more info about the marriage? She did not live long after his birth according to census info.
-
There is a marriage in Dublin North March quarter 1899 vol 2 pg 488 where Michael Durkin and Emily M'Crann have the same reference.
-
Thank you. The Irish GRO is much more difficult to get records from than UK GRO :(
I know Michael Durkin was born in County Mayo, Ireland and was in Liverpool in 1891. I wonder why he would go to Dublin to marry?
Which leads me then to wonder where Patrick Alfred Durkin and Helen Caulefield might have married since it doesn't appear it was in Liverpool.
-
The Grave for Bridget Durkin O'Malley's youngest daughter, Bridget OMalley showed she was buried in Liverpool in Plot H508. She was 3 years old 9/4/1898 living at 8 Greek St ( note Michael Durkin's son, Martin Arthur was born at 7 Greek St Liverpool)
Bridget married husband #2 Michael Malley 29 June 1898.
-
Hi there,
Just catching up with this thread, but have been vaguely aware of it for a few years. I haven't done any serious research since Spring of 2011 when the hunt for Olympic tickets started to take over my life! [from one obsession to another :-) ]
But just to say that my paternal grandmother was Winifred Mary Stanton who was a double 1st cousin of Mary Winifred Staunton, wife of James Joseph O'Malley.
I know a fair bit about both the Stanton/Stauntons and the O'Malleys. I've seen the Durkin name on plenty of census records as well. All the families were involved in the import of pork from Northern Ireland (Armagh allegedly) and had ALOT of pork butcher shops across Liverpool.
If you have any questions, fire away,
Cheers
John
-
Thanks. I was having internet connection problems. But all is well now. So nice to hear from you. I responded to your message as well. Do you happen to know anything about James Joseph & Mary Winifred's son James? Did he marry & have a family? Was one of the Butcher shops of Liverpool located at 78 Soho St to your knowledge? I look forward to hearing from you again.
-
Hi Anne,
Yes, James P O'Malley, brother of Maureen, son of Mary & James J, married and and 6 children, 3 of which are still alive.
James P died in 1980 (need to check my records) but his wife is still alive & lives a 5 minute walk from me. One of their grandsons (my double 3rd cousin once removed) actuallys works in the same place I do & we have a a cup of tea & a catch up regularly.
James P was an accountant & for a period of time looked after my Dads accounts (they were v good friends as well as being double 2nd cousins).
His sister Maureen (d. 2003) was a vet but also a celebrated local artist (painter). She travelled the world & regularly visited the States to see her relatives.
So... Is James Joseph O'Malley a descendant of Annie O'Malley?
Cheers
John
PS. Am aware of RootsChat rules re living relatives so can do all that via PM.
-
Was one of the Butcher shops of Liverpool located at 78 Soho St to your knowledge?
I don't know. Not seen that address before, but can easily look up in a Gore's /Kelly's Directory for you. If you're not aware, they are old style Yellow Pages. Let me the relevant years & I can look the address up. Some of them are online & easily searched.
-
Hi Anne,
I have found entries for various Durkin butchers in a combination of Gore's & Kelly's Directories stretching from 1896 to 1970 - have photographed all the entries and can post them here if you like.
The directories are split into 3 sections - all listed alphabetically: streets, names & trades. So you can look up any one of 3 very easily.
I looked up 78 Soho Street in the 1916 Gore's Directory:
Soho St
78, Durkin, Patrick A., pork butcher.
It appears that he was in business with his brothers also (from other entries). Later on, ca, 1955 onwards, a James Durkin & brothers are carrying on. Whether or not they are Partick's sons remains to be confirmed, but I suspect they are.
I should also add, that there are numerous entries for O'Malley, Stanton & Staunton butchers. A HUGE extended family business!
OK, enough for the moment.
:-)
John
-
James Joseph O'Malley was Annie O'Malley's brother. Thomas and Patrick were also their brothers. I believe Patrick Alfred Durkin was their uncle but cannot prove this with any records. Patrick Alfred Durkin was born in County Mayo townland Tallavbaun.
He moved to Liverpool and was shown on the 1881 Census living with John Devitt (head) at 17 Sawney Pope St shown as an Apprentice (food dealer)
1891 census showe him as Pig Salesman (head) at 47 Stafford his brother Michael (butcher) and sister Catherine as well as Richard Toole (pig dealer assistant) and Mary Heating servant.
1901 showed him married to Helena with son Martin Francis 6months and nephew James O'Malley age 8
-
James Durkin was Patrick Alfred's youngest brother born 2 Feb 1881
Patrick Alfred also had a brother Michael b. 1873 whose son Martin Arthur b 1901 was the approximate same age as Martin Frances (Patrick Alfred's son).
Patrick Alfred's sons were Martin Frances and Nicholas PI
his daughters were Mary Agnes and Helen Gerard
-
I know about Maureen she visited my Aunt (Annie O'Malley's daughter) who is a missionary nun and gave my aunt one of her paintings. My aunt has the original. I only have a scanned copy of it.
-
Thank you. I would love to have you post anything about the butchers and/or 78 Soho Street. The ships record for Annie O'malley in 1919 coming to the US said her previous address was 78 Soho St with Uncle P Durkin. My aunt says my father James Conboy, deceased, (Annie O'Malley Conboy's son) visited Tom O'Malley at the butcher shop during WWII. My Aunt, a missionary in Indonesia, (aged 90) loves getting my emails telling her of the ancestry quest I am on :)
-
Annie O'Malley Conboy & James Joseph O'Malley were siblings. James Patrick O'Malley and my father James Conboy were first cousins. So the children of James Patrick O'Malley would be my second cousins.
Annie O'Malley and James Joseph O'Malley's parents were William O'Malley and Bridget nee Durkin O'Malley
-
WHOA! That's a lot of information! Thanks :-)
I have quite a few photos of Maureen and her brother Jim (James P). Jim's children are my double 3rd cousins.
It seems that were are linked by marriages. There are 2 different O'Malley families that married into the Stanton/Staunton family.
Going back to my great great grandparents: Patrick Staunton (or Stanton!) and Winifred Ruane, who apparently eloped. It is this Winifred (probably) that subsequent Winifreds are named after... BUT... I don't know the tree beyond them, so there could well be more Winnies!
It's get a little complicated from here... ;-)
Patrick & Winifred's children:
- Thomas Patrick m. Honor/Honoria/Hannah/Anne MORRISON (my great grandparents)
- Patrick Joseph m. Catherine MORRISON (sister of Honor) - hence the double cousin
- Mary
- Ann - emigrated to US
- Bridget - emigrated to US
- Catherine m. Patrick GAVIN
- Andrew m. Alice O'MALLEY (the other O'Malley family I mentioned above) - 14 children! - many grandchilden in the US.
As an aside & to muddy the waters a little, Honor & Catherine Morrison (marrying the Stanton/Staunton brothers Thomas & Patrick) also had a sister Mary - she married a Thomas M Staunton (another butcher!). It's been mentioned to me by Jim's widow that Thomas M was a cousin of Thomas & Patrick but I haven't been able to corroborate that.
Thomas & Honor Staunton changed name to Stanton. Their children:
- Mary Catherine
- Winifred Mary m. Thomas W (my grandparents)
- Nora Elizabeth
Patrick & Catherine Staunton's children:
- Mary Winifred m. James Joseph O'MALLEY 1923
- Catherine
- Thomas Patrick
- Patrick Joseph
So the children of Thomas & Honor and Patrick & Catherine, shared all 4 pairs of grandparents and are/were therefore double cousins. There grandchildren are double 2nd cousins to each other & so on.
James P O'Malley & his wife (living) had 6 children but only 3 are still alive and I work with (v loosely!) one of the grandsons. Jim & wife were good friends of my parents and one of their daughters baby-sat me & my siblings regularly when we were much younger.
More tomorrow maybe.
Cheers
John
-
Thank you so much. This is amazing information. I would love it if you would like to share any pictures an/or documents. Also I would gladly share any marriage / birth documents with you that I have if you are interested.
The one question that I cannot answer with records that I have is "was Bridget Durkin O'Malley, (mother of James Joseph O'Malley) the sister of Patrick Alfred Durkin?"
If you know anyone that has the answer to that question, I would love the answer.
-
Not having researched the Durkins, I don't know the answer to that. Do you know when Bridget and Patrick died? And where they are buried?
2 possible sources of info to help maybe (1) Headstone inscriptions (2) Local newspaper death notices. Both of which I *might* be able to help with.
-
Hi Anne,
I have uploaded all the photos I took the other evening of the entries in various Gore's & Kelly's Directories, when I was looking for 78 Soho Street and then Durkins.
They can all be found and downloaded from here: https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B9M7ZYkOjhHeMjJ2ZUl6Rm5GNDA/edit
There's a fair bit of unnecessary duplication, but I enjoyed the cross-referening within each directory (sad, I know!).
Brief summary - Patrick Durkin was in the pig business from at least 1896 in Liverpool, then with his brothers (1916). Jumping forward to 1955, we see that a James Durkin and Durkin Brothers are in the same business. Reasonable to assume sons of either Patrick and/or brothers. And the business is operating in 1970.
If you have access to Ancestry, you may want to look up the British Telecom phone directories to see entries for the 1970s and 80s.
I didn't look in the 1882 Gore's as I'm certain that the pork butcher "invasion" from Ireland didnt really get going until a little after that. So 1896 was the 1st one available after that. But Liverpool Library do have plenty of other editions so it might be worth checking there as well.
Cheers
John
-
Just looking back through the thread & I saw the photo of James J O'Malley's headstone.
Not sure where you got the photo from, but I took a similar photo myself a few years back!
-
Thank you so much
Bridget O'Malley died of cancer Winwick near Warrington of 78 Soho St on 23 March 1915. Administration Liverpool did not occur until Dec 1925. She is buried in Ford Cemetery in grave H508 owned by Patrick Alfred Durkin. Also buried there are her daughter, Bridget died age 3, and her daughters from second marriage to Michael O'Malley Ellen, Margaret and Honor. There is also an infant Patrick McArdle aged 3 months who I believe was the child of Daniel McArdle and Catherine Durkin McArdle (Patrick Alfred's sister) & Michael Durkin age 56 (Patrick Alfreds brother (died 1929). Referenced in this grave record is plot I356 owner Mary W. O'Malley. Buried in I356 are James Joseph O'Malley his brothers Patrick(d 1946) & Thomas (d. 1966) and Mary Winifred O'Malley who died 1974 age 74.
Patrick Alfred Durkin died 11 Jan 1933 f 10 Prescott Dr Newsham Park Liverpool . Administration to his wife Helen Durkin and son Martin Francis Durkin meat salesman. He is buried Yew Tree Cemetery section 4C plot 19. There are two stones the second says Nicholas Patrick Durkin (d 1969) Mary Anne Durkin (d. 2005) are buried there.
-
I found the deed on file for the grave and paid a gentleman to take the grave photos for me as I live in the US and could not do it myself.
-
Looking back at some of your posts Anne, I see that you refer to the Stantons. Be a little careful as the surname is interchangeable with Staunton.
According to the BMD & Census records, Mary W O'Malley's parents (Patrick & Catherine) were STAUNTON. And this corroborates with all the parish records I've been able to find.
It was said that Patrick's brother Thomas (my great grandfather) & spouse Honor changed their name to STANTON, apparently to avoid confusion. [there is some debate as to exactly why].
The birth records of the children of Patrick Staunton & Winifred Ruane's (ie Thomas, Patrick etc) show that some of them are listed as Staunton and others as Stanton. So apart from any formal change, it was very interchangeable anway - presumably a function of the accent, the priest's hearing etc. Note that all the children used the name STAUNTON, but only Thomas P changed to STANTON.
-
Yes I know names change especially when coming from Ireland to England.
There is another connection I haven't mentioned. Patrick Alfred Durkin's parents were Martin Durkan/Durcan/Durkin and Anne Staunton/Stanton spellings change depending on which document you are looking at
Martin & Anne died in Ireland and are buried in Killeen.
Have mercy O Lord on the soul of Martin Durkan who died 24 April 1883 aged 57 and his wife Annie died 1904 aged 60 years and their daughter Onnie died 3 April 1942 aged 70 and her husband Jim McDonnell died 14 July 1938 age 71 RIP — at Killeen Cemetery plot 210 Old Section.
-
Interesting. That would put Anne Staunton as being b. ca. 1846. Maybe a connection to Patrick Staunton, husband of Winifred Ruane. That will be hard to tie down.
Is that Killen Cemetery in Mayo?
-
Patrick Durkin witness to:
Marriage of Thomas STANTON & HONOR/NORA MORRISON, 1889 ("Patrick Durkin, 65 Crosshall St")
[ref 1889-134, HOLY CROSS, 28-Jan-1889]
Baptism of their 1st child, Mary Catherine STANTON, b 1891 ("Patrick A Durkin") [ref 1890-6410m Holy Cross 282-HOL-1-5 (629), 27-Jul-1890]
Also, a Thomas O'Malley is witness to:
Baptism of Patrick Joseph STAUNTON b 1904 (youngest child of Patrick & Catherine STAUNTON), brother of Mary W, later O'Malley. ("Thomas O'Malley") [ref Our Lady Reconciliation, 282-REC-1-8, 01-Mar-1904]
Found at either Ancestry or here: http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/
-
the marriage record shows it as Stanton but on the bottom they showed Staunton and crossed through the U
-
Which marriage record is that Anne?
-
yes Killeen Cemetery in Mayo
-
Sorry I tried to attach the record. It is the marriage of Mary Winifred to James Joseph 30 April 1923 but it is too large evidently
-
the reference to Thomas O'Malley is probably not James Joseph O'Malley's brother Thomas as he would only have been 7 years old in 1904.
-
The 1881 census for 17 Sawney Pope St, Liverpool where John Devitt was the head shows Patrick Durkin age 16 born Ireland occupation Apprentice (Food Dlr) and also Thomas Stanton aged 32 born Ireland occupation Carter
They were both listed as servants of Devitt not relatives.
-
thanks for that Anne. Yes, you're right of course, Mary W is down as Stanton in the marriage records. Their 4 children were all Staunton! I'll give you my email by PM - would appreciate it if you could email that record that you have.
Well, well, well. I may have unearthed a connection between the Martin Durkan & Anne Staunton you referenced above.
I have a document written by a Staunton relative describing how the Staunton & O'Malleys (not yours) came to be. Although the O'Malley could well be related in some way to yours.
She writes:
"PATRICK (my grandfather) [Staunton] married Winifred Ruane & settled in with her Uncle Andy Ruane as they had eloped against my great grandmother's wishes & married.
ANNE [Patrick's sister] married a Durkan from Tallabawn. The family lives there now McDonalds".
Anne Staunton marrying Martin Durkan?
This one VERY complicated family!
-
Honor Durkin married James McDonnell of Tallavbaun (sp?) 5 May 1895. Anne Staunton Durkin lived with them after Martin Died. DED Owennadernaun
-
.
-
So your grandmother's parents were William O'Malley & Bridget Durkin/Durkan.
If (a big if!) Bridget's mother Anne Staunton is the daughter of James with mother an O'Malley/Malley and brothers James, Patrick and sister Catherine, then it's highly likely that you and me are 4th cousins ....
Anne's brother being Patrick Staunton (m. Winifred Ruane), my great great grandfather.
Our common ancestor would be my great great great grandfather James Staunton.
BUT that would take a fair bit of work and several £££ to confirm/disprove.
-
I have gone all over trying to get records for Bridget's birth. They do not exist. I went to the parish priest Father Mattie Long who told me marriage records for the approximate time of the marriage of Anne Staunton and Martin Durkin no longer exist ditto baptism records for the years around when Bridget was born. The official civil records were not kept in 1859. I was hoping an O'Malley relative might know the answer.
-
would it be possible for me to see a copy of the writing you referenced referring to Anne and the McDonnells
-
Yes, can email it to you tomorrow. Can you PM your email address?
Shame re baptism & marriage records.
-
.
-
I have a lot of info from Mayo Ancestors dot com showing the births of the Children of Anne Staunton and Martin Durkin. So although I do not have their marriage record I have the transcriptions of the births of their children. Also I have the gravesite to show where they are buried. I also have the census record showing Anne Durkan, mother in law, widow, living with James and Honor McDonnell and youngest daughter Ellen Durkan in Six Noggins which is in the same DED as Tallavbaun.
-
hello,
my relatives from the british isles:
burnes campbell ross married norah winnifred fitzpatrick --- liverpool folks
her parents were bridget nee stanton who married harry fitzpatrick (scottish footballer)
bridget's parents were thomas stanton who married mary morrison
we are looking for tom o'malley, how he fits in
he moved to chicago according to the story after he and his first wife moved to a nyc tenement where she died in a fire
my grandpa "jack" ross was a chindit highlander
his mom was christina cameron
can you tell me more about mary morrison? and her family? where are they from?
my mom told us last night that there were 3 sisters who were just to go to massachusetts to work as milliners or something, but then mary met thomas stanton who was older than she, seemed to be doing well, so she stayed in l-pool.
my mom need to help tell this better than i am, but we were just talking about this last night, so this is very timely.
thank you!
tracey
-
Hi Tracey,
I think I can help you with *some* of these names. I have them in my tree and I'm fairly sure we are distant cousins!
I'm delighted to hear from more descendants from my Stanton/Morrison branch in the US.
I'm from, live & work in the Liverpool area - but on the "other side of the water", on the Wirral peninsula.
Before I go on, let me give you a friendly warning that the surname "Stanton" is interchangeable with "Staunton" in my tree.
So.....
...<snip>
Burnes Campbell Ross m. Norah Winnifred Fitzpatrick --- liverpool folks
her parents were Bridget Stanton m. Harry Fitzpatrick (scottish footballer)
Bridget's parents were Thomas Stanton m. Mary Morrison
Let's stop there and deal with the above.
My father's mother was Winifred Mary STANTON. Her parents were Thomas Patrick STANTON and Honor MORRISON.
Honor Morrison (b. 1868 +/- 1) was the middle one of 3 Morrison sisters, the oldest being your Mary (b. 1867) and the youngest, Catherine (b. 1870). There also appears to be a brother, Patrick Joseph, b. 1857, d. 1933 in Liverpool. They were all born in Co. Mayo, Ireland.
All three sisters became heavily involved in family pork butchering businesses in Liverpool with their husbands.
Now it gets a little complicated.
2 sisters, Honor and Catherine Morrison, married a pair of brothers: Honor m. Thomas Patrick STAUNTON and Catherine m. Patrick Joseph STAUNTON.
Mary Morrison married, Thomas M STAUNTON, who apparently was a cousin of the Staunton brothers that Honor & Cath married.
You'll notice that I've used both "Stanton" and "Staunton" with respect to Honor's husband, my great grandfather, Thomas Patrick.
This is because he decided to drop the "u" and call themselves STANTON to distinguish themselves from Patrick Joseph Staunton. The reasons why are not clear - there are 2 theories but I can't verify either.
Thomas Patrick STANTON & Honor had their own Provision shop in central Liverpool and Honor was the driving force apparently. They imported pork from Ireland.
Patrick Joseph STAUNTON & Catherine did the same thing!
Thomas M STAUNTON & Mary did something similar.
Basically, they were all pork importers & butchers.
When I was first looking into this, it was VERY confusing as you can imagine :-)
------
So... my great-grandmother, Honor, was Mary Morrison's sister.
Thomas and Mary's 2nd child was Bridget STAUNTON
She married Henry James FITZPATRICK in Sep 1902 and NORAH WINIFRED (1908-1987) was their 3rd child.
Norah m. John BC Ross (BC = Burnes Campbell, I assume) in 1935 and according to my records, Norah and John BC had 3 children: a daughter, then a son and then a daughter.
However, with their births being 1936, 1942 and 1949, I imagine all 3 might still be alive (connected to you?) and Rootschat rules prohibit me from talking about living descendants without their permission
I've worked out that Norah & John BC Ross's children are my 3rd cousins.
[/quote]
we are looking for Tom O'Malley, how he fits in
he moved to chicago according to the story after he and his first wife moved to a nyc tenement where she died in a fire
Sorry, no idea. I DO have O'Malley's on my tree. One of Catherine Morrison's oldest child, married an O'Malley, but there is no sign of a Thomas in that tree, I know quite a bit about those O'Malleys. You might have to ask your Mum for more details.
my grandpa "Jack" Ross was a chindit highlander
his mom was Christina Cameron
What was "Jack" Ross's real first name and is he related to (John) Burnes Campbell Ross & Norah Winifred Fitzpatrick ? Are they the same person ?
END OF PART 1 :-)
John
-
PART 2 :-)
---------------
can you tell me more about Mary Morrison?
and her family?
where are they from?
I don't know much about the Morrison family except that their father was James, a farmer (possibly a butcher?) from Mayo and their mother was Bridget (don't know surname).
Thomas Staunton & Mary Morrison had 12 children in total. 2 sons, James & Peter fought & were killed in World War 1. I have a photo of the family headstone.
From my research, it's clear that the majority of the Fitzpatrick family stayed in Liverpool. I've got Norah's older brother James, marrying Mary Sweeney & had 6 children. Norah's older sister Mary Evadne ("Vaddy") married John Pemberton & had 2 daughters.
But Norah also had 7 younger siblings:
Thomas Henry
Joseph G
Henrietta "Rita"
Kathleen J
Henry P "Harry"
John P
Patrick P.
my mom told us last night that there were 3 sisters who were just to go to massachusetts to work as milliners or something, but then Mary met Thomas Stanton who was older than she, seemed to be doing well, so she stayed in l-pool.
Your post has actually given ME some new information.
(1) It sounds like the plan for Morrison sisters should have been for them to go to the USA - but pork butchering in Liverpool clearly was a big attraction! :-)
(2) I didn't know that Henry "Harry" Fitzpatrick was a Scottish footballer - I'll need to look into that!
Honor and Thomas Patrick did very well indeed. They had 3 daughters and instead of having them schooled in Liverpool, had enough money to send all 3 to a convent school in Belgium.
One of Bridget's brothers, Myles Staunton, emigrated to the US around 1900-1910. So you probably have some Staunton cousins over there.
my mom need to help tell this better than i am, but we were just talking about this last night, so this is very timely.
I hope your Mum makes sense of this. I'd be very interested to hear how she is related to John Burnes Campbell Ross and Norah Winifred Fitzpartrick.
thank you!
tracey
No problem and hope that's useful,
John
-
Hello all!
I am descended from Hugh MacDonell (or McDonnell or MacDonald!) who you have identified as living at Six Noggins at the same time as Anne Durkin was living with the Macdonalds at Tallavbaun (or Thallabawn or Silver Strand). Hugh was a Scot who came to Mayo as a shepherd around 1871, initially living at Dadreen and later at Six Noggins. The Durkin family had been tenants in the area for many years until they were moved off by an incoming landlord. The land was rented out to sheep graziers based at Killary Lodge, hence Hugh getting a job offer in Mayo. James MacDonald was Hugh's third child, born in Scotland in c1870 married Honor Durkin and moved into Tallavbaun. He and Honnie had a large family some of whose descendants still live in the area and some with whom I am in contact. James' grandson lives in Co Clare and grand-daughter lives in Galway. Someone in the family may have the info you are looking for. I'll ask!
-
Great to hear from you! It’s been a very long time since anyone posted on this thread.
My great grandmother was Bridget nee Durkan O’Malley. She was Honor’s sister.
I would love to hear any stories about the family history. I will gladly share any info I have about the Durkans/Durkins if you do not have it and are interested.
I do not have any info on the Durkan family before Martin. But, I do now know where all Honor’s siblings went.
If you would like my email private message me .
Kind Regards
Anne
-
Not sure if this info is still relevant on this thread, but Catherine (Kitt) O'Malley is my great grandmother. I don't actually have too much information, but she married into the Philbin family when she came to the US, and lived in Massachusetts.
Hopefully that can help someone track down any information they might be looking for.
-
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Honor Durkin married James McDonnell of Tallavbaun (sp?) 5 May 1895.
Link-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1895/10547/5842088.pdf
James living at Sixnoggins townland.
https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/murrisk/kilgeever/owennadornaun/sixnoggins/
Honor living at Tallavbaun townland.
https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/murrisk/kilgeever/owennadornaun/tallavbaun/