RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: sean 1656 on Saturday 24 September 11 13:01 BST (UK)
-
Hi, anyone help me please.
Im looking for family history on Norman Wallis williams , Married Annie Edwards from The lodge, Brybo
Norman ran the Bell stores in crane street ,Cefn mawr...
Normans brothers are herbert, Walter,Emerys,David, Llillian, & lora.
Can anyone help please//
regards
sean
-
Hi Sean
Me again :)
I can't help very much but I know that William Russell Jones is likely to come on and help with this one.
I see that Norman and Annie married in Sept quarter 1923, Wrexham v 11b p 508. The North Wales BMD has it as a 'civil' ceremony - non-C of E.
gnu
-
I think Norman was born in 1898. There's a birth reg for him ~
Norman Wallace Williams Dec quarter ,1898 Wrexham v 11b p 240
Here he is with his parents in 1901
Hill Street, Cefn
RG13/5218/47/21
William Williams, 30, ? collier hewer (from line above)
Dorothy, 30
Mary E, 10
Willie, 7
Geo A, 5
Norman W, 3
David, 3 mths
All born Cefn
gnu
-
Norman's mother looks likely to be a Jones :-\:
Marriage Dec q 1890, Wrexham Reg District, v 11b p 522
Williams Williams and Dorothy Jones on same page.
(The local BMD says this was at St Mary's Ruabon)
gnu
-
Here are Norman's parents in 1891
Queen Street, Cedfn
RG12/4613/92/26
William Williams, 21, collier, b. Rhosymedre
Dorothy, 21, b. Cefn
I have the Rhosymedre registers so will see if I can find him
gnu
-
Herbert you mentioned was know locally as Herb Muck.There is a related thread to this?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
The last child you mentioned should have read Laura born in 1906.she is in my Tree marrying my relative John W Breeze.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Have you got the link to the thread about Herbert, WR - I can't find it on here.
gnu
PS - Sean's my 1st cousin, once removed, via the Wilsons :D
-
The thread referred to where William Williams was living,I've had a quick look but couldn't find it.I referred to Herb Muck in that.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
The thread I referred to didn't refer to the Williams family,I only mentioned Herb Muck relating to where he had his shop in Hill St Cefn.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Think it's on here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,489092.0.html
( http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,489092.msg3575369.html#msg3575369 )
gnu
-
Thats the one!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Norman had a son Sid known would you believe it as Sid the Bell!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Hi ,
Yes Sid the Bell was my mother brother.. And yes Erb Muck, was an uncle. I believe, he also ran a shop in Cefn, and also a bus company( School outings Etc...)
Regards
Sean
-
Hi,
Looking at the link, that's been sent, A comment that was sent from "Black parker" Make's reference to being a descendant of Sam Evans, well I'm married to Jane, his Granddaughter .
Regards
Sean
-
Yes Herb also ran buses taking the miners back and to from the pit.Isn't one of the brother's wives still alive?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Hi ,
Yes Aunt y Joan. She was Emery's Wife, she ran the shop for Herb muck, and then ran the sweet shop & tobacconists with Emerys.. Or so I'm led to believe ..
Regards
Sean
-
Yes they used to run the shop on Crane St for many years.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Was William Williams(1870) the son of a William and Elizabeth Williams?William showing as born in Penley in c 1830 in 1871-RG10/5652/120/11.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
I don't think so, William. He's shown as born Rhosymedre in 1891 :
Here are Norman's parents in 1891
Queen Street, Cedfn
RG12/4613/92/26
William Williams, 21, collier, b. Rhosymedre
Dorothy, 21, b. Cefn
I have the Rhosymedre registers so will see if I can find him
gnu
Have n't found him in the registers so far, though - may not have been C of E
-
Thats the one I think I was showing.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
This looks a likely one in 1881:
RG11/5514/118/23 - Rhosymedre
Has a brother, Walter. All born Rhosymedre - mother b. Cinders
Will send the image to Sean if it proves correct.
gnu
Similar to yours in 1871 - but not quite :-\
Please give your refs, William, it gets confusing otherwise.
-
Born Oswestry in the 1861 - RG09/4281/37/21
-
Yes he seems to be pretty flexible with his birthplace and age!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
The wife I found on the 1881 doesn't seem the same as the Elizabeth, though. Tabyther (?). Maybe a second marriage?
-
Yes he seems to have married again to a Tibitha or Sabetha.Warning though they have a son William still with them in 1891?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
So looks like the wrong one then, William - as I found William and Dorothy on the 1891, already married :-\
Must go now and do some domestics - will come back to it all later :)
* married Tabitha Edwards in 1876.
-
They could be two of the Edwards children showing in 1881.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
I saw three - John, William and Charles
Consider this one:
Cefn Bychan
RG11/5514/94/18
John Williams, 45, general labourer
Emma, 40
William, 11
David J, 6
Evan T, 2
All b. Cefn mawr
The other one fits better with the names though :-\
-
In case the William that we've been looking at is correct ~
Marriage Rhosymedre
10 August 1876
William Williams (collier) of Rhosymedre (widower), aged 41
and
Tabitha Edwards of Rhos (widow), aged 39
William's father is shown as Charles Williams, sawyer.
gnu
-
I think I've solved the problem of the William on the 1891. It's Tabitha's son, William Edwards, aged 10 on the 1881. Also there is a Charles Henry Williams, aged 17 = Charles H Edwards , aged 7 on the 1881.
So, I'd say that the William (and the late Elizabeth) are William's parents and Norman's grandparents. I'll send the pages, Sean :)
gnu
-
I've got a possible baptism for him in the Penley Parish Registers booklet I have in 1831.The Charles then though is showing as a Labourer.It shows on 09/01/1831 to Charles and Mary of Northwood.One possible sibling a Margaret baptised 26//04/1833.There is also this family I found in Overton in 1841-HO107/1408/10/23/10.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Have you got any hits for him on the 1851, WR? I've tried the three counties but nothing really firm so far :-\
-
He isn't showing too readily.
Regards
William Russell Jones
-
There is a possible marriage in the Oswestry District in the Jan/Feb/Mar quarter of 1859 to a choice of three Elizabeths,a Jones,Thomas or Williams-Volume 6a,Page 1025.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
They do have a 4 year old son, John, b. Ruabon, on the 1861 -
RG9/4281/37/21
He could have been born before they married but .....
gnu
-
I see,I was mistakenly thinking Charles was the eldest!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
John only appears on the 1861 - maybe he died :-\
On the 1861, Charles is down as 8 months old. Thus born circa July 1860, if the info is correct. This is the only birth registration that fits:
Sept q, 1860, Wrexham 11b p 321
-
Yes it should give Elizabeth's maiden name.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
One further thought on this.My father used to talk also about an Alf Muck.Would this possibly have been the Alfred Williams who has been shown as a possible uncle of Herb etc?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Turning to Norman's wife Annie:
I think that Annie Edwards was born circa 1899, Brymbo
1901
4 Long Row, Brymbo
RG13/5221/88/35
George Edwards, 23, steel smelter, b. Llangollen
Jane, wife, 22, b. Acrefair
James J, son, 3
Annie, dau, 2
Mary, dau, 1 mth
Children all b. Brymbo
George Edwards married Jane Clayton March q, 1897, Wrexham, vol 11b p 338
Local BMD has the marriage at St Giles, Wrexham
gnu
-
Bit more~
Probably George Edwards and his parents in 1891:
Old Engine House, Windy Hill, Gwersyllt
RG12/4617/4/2
Joseph Edwards, 36, colliery labourer
Sarah Ann,w, 33, b. Wrexham
George, s, 12
Jane Anne, d, 11
Edward RD, s, 10
Elizabeth, d, 6
Harriet, d, 3
Margaret, d, 1, b. Gwersyllt
Born Garth, Llangollen unless stated otherwise
Marriage Dec q 1878, Wrexham, v. 11b p 482
Joseph Edwards and Sarah Ann Clutton - St Giles, Wrexham
And Jane Clayton with her parents in 1891:
4 Blast Row, Foundry Road, Brymbo
RG12/4616/60/52
James Clayton, 35, Furnace Man, b. Llansannan
Ann, w, 35, b. -do-
Barbara, d, 14, b. Ruabon
Jane, d, 12, b. -do-
Robert, s, 9, b. Brymbo
Hugh, s, 7, b. -do-
Llewyn, s, 4, b. -do-
William, s, 1, b. -do-
Marriage Dec q, 1874, St Asaph, v 11b p 626
James Clayton and Anne Evans - St Asaph, civil marriage
gnu
-
This looks like the Sarah Ann Clutton in 1861-RG9/4284/8/10.Father Richard Clutton is at Trevor Hall in 1881-RG11/5540/73/41.Richard looks to have married a Harriet Jones at Wrexham in 1840.The Clutton family looking at the available Trees is one of the better researched families in the area.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Can I just say a very big thankyou for all your help, as I could not have found my family history with out your help..
Kindest Regards
Sean wilson