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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: noddy59 on Friday 23 September 11 18:54 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for information on James Morris B Abt 1863 Trefonen. Married Mary Jane Davies 1888. Died Oswestry 1915. I have him living in Sheffield in 1901 and landlord of the Five Bells Oswestry in 1909 until his death. His wife ran the pub until 1937 ? He also had something to do with Oswestry town football club.
I would really like to know what year he returned from sheffield so if anyone has any records of the Five Bells or Oswestry Town FC with him being there between 1901 and 1909 or can point me in the right direction as to find his whereabouts during those years I would love know. Thanks
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According to the 1901 census - he was in Sheffield at that time.
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have you looked for him on the 1911 census which is strictly pay per view - lookups are not allowed here
The last child born in Oswestry was aged 1 in 1901
The 1911 will show if any children were born after 1901 and where - which will help narrow down his return date
Full 1901 entry for Sheffield - all b Oswestry
James Morris 38 boiler makers holder up??
Mary Jane 32
Emily Jane 12
Eva Gertrude 9
Elizabeth Ann 7
James Cecil 3
John William 1
RG13 Piece 4332 Folio 116 Page 29
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Hi noddy :)
One of our members, Canary, has written extensively on footballers of that era and might well have lots of information about him.
I'll send him a personal message alerting him to this thread.
gnu
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Noddy,
I have him as born in Trefonen, nr Oswestry in 1864 and died Oswestry 16 July 1915. He was a half back and played one match for Wales v Scotland at Wrexham on 21 March 1887. He made his only Welsh appearance when he stood in for the indisposed captain Humphrey Jones. I've looked a couple of match reports and he gets two mentions - once when he cleared his lines and the second when he conceded a free kick for hand ball. The Scots won the match 2-0 which wasn't a bad result because Scotland had a very strong team at the time. I have his playing career as Trefonen 1881-84, where I believe he was captain, then Oswestry 1884-91. His association with Oswestry football lasted a long time because he was a committee member after giving up the game. In early life he was a brickmaker. I don't know when he returned from Sheffield but he was certainly in Oswestry just before WW1. And as you know he became the landlord of the Five Bells Inn in Willow, Street, Oswestry.
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I'm just wondering if Oswestry Local Studies Library might be able to help. They do keep extensive indexed clippings from the local newspapers and have been very helpful to me in the past:
http://www.shropshire.gov.uk/library.nsf/open/FFAD4D758B3AAB2E80256CD2004AD81C
Scroll down to the bottom for contact details.
They obviously moved between 1901 and 1909, when he was listed in Kelly's but I can't find an online Trade Directory for Oswestry in the 1901-1908 period.
gnu
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I should have added that I used the Oswestry Advertiser to track his football career as best I could.
The local newspaper would have recorded when he took the licence of the Five Bells but it could be a difficult search given the number of years to potentially cover.
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A bit of lateral ~
The occupant in the 1901 was a James Edward Ashley b. circa 1869, Oswestry
Death:
James Edward Ashley Sept q, 1903, Oswestry, aged 34
So the time frame is probably a bit narrower - 1903-1909
gnu
PS - Canary, I think the Library would have the cuttings indexed under James Morris or the Five Bells, so the search would not be too difficult. They've got a pretty good indexing system to my knowledge
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Thanks. News to me. The last time I contacted them for microfilm photocopies they weren't that helpful and their machine had broken!
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Ladies/Gents,
Thanks for your efforts, I'm impressed.
Annie Fox had the five Bells in 1906, James Morris 1909, I'm hoping to find James in the area in 1907.
I have the 1911 census with no other children born after 1901 but did notice there was an extra child listed which had died, but I'm taking a stab in the dark here, and i think that might have happened in the gap of the other children's births due to a child being born/died oswestry having the christian names of the two grandparents.
I also have James obituary in 1915
Thanks once more
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If you want information on him playing for Oswestry Town, clubs usually have good records. Oswestry Town is no known as TNS. If you want to find out details, you will need to phone them up as they ignore e-mails.
There is a few bits and bobs for the club from the 1880s at Shropshire Archives.
I looked for his bapt. at Trefonen and Oswestry. It's at neither of those.
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He might not have been registered or not been baptised in C of E. Here he is with the family in 1871:
Trefonen
RG10/2781/15/23
Robert Morris, 48, no occ discernible*, Denbighshire, Llangedwin
Ann, 40
John, 12, collier
Robert, 9
James, 8
Sarah, 5
Emma, 3
Edward, 8 mths
All others b. Trefonen.
* on 1881 he's a general labourer
I think that noddy really wants to know when he moved back to Oswestry, though.
gnu
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Thanks again everyone, Its just the years 1901 to 1909 i'm really interested in, I have most of the other infomation, I'll try the football club when I get time to visit Oswestry. Thanks again.
Noddy
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Hi.
I am James Morris' great grandson.
I can confirm most of the information I have seen posted here about him.
My dad actually has a more extensive historical narrative.
Is there a specific question I can help you with?
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Graham,
A very big thank you for replying to my post.
There are loads of questions I'd like to ask, the problem is trying to get the hair on the back of my neck to go down and the goose pimples and cold shivers to go away.
Before I do ask any questions do you know if there is a way of sending personal messages on this site. All my questions will then concern James Morris and his daughter Elizabeth Ann Morris (Owen)
Noddy59 (Dave).
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Hi Noddy
If Graham replies to your post on here at least once - maybe twice, you will both be able to personal message each other. Members have to have made 2 or 3 postings before they can send PMs (personal messages)
Here are the instructions:
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Alternatively, you can already PM him and send him your e-mail address.
gnu
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Gnu,
Thanks for the advice, Ive just tried PM and it comes up will not send due to Max PM limit, I'm hoping its because Graham has made only one post,
Thanks again
Noddy
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Graham in Oregon,
If you revisit this site, could you please post 2 more times as I would like to try and send you a Personal Message.
Thanks
Noddy
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Sure. I'll try. It was a total fluke that I happened upon your post. I was looking for a picture of the Five Bells pub in Oswestry where James worked for a while, for my Facebook page, to show some of my friends here in the USA about British cultural heriatge - the pub, naturally!
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My dad gave me a complete family history that he has been researching a few years ago. I need to look see where I put it. James' Welsh cap is still in our family, with one of my cousins. The Welsh FA knows that he has it, so I understand.
As an aside, we also believe that the Morris listed on the Everton FC web site as playing 1 game on Dec 15 1888 vs Stoke is also James. I know dad has other details that try to track him playing vs Feyenoord also, among others.
Ok, so this is my second post - hopefully we can email a little more quickly, and I'll try to dig out the folder dad gave me (he celebrates his 83rd birthday this coming Wednesday).
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Graham
Thanks one more, I'll try a Personal Message again
Noddy