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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northamptonshire => England => Northamptonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: alllegs on Friday 06 May 05 20:13 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone....
I'm really confused once again!!
I have this from the 1871 census....
David Hubbard Head 32 coal dealer born Yarwell.
Sarah Hubbard wife 28 born Nassington
Edward son 11
Hannah dau 8
Charles son 7
David son 5
William son 3
Rose dau 1
(all kids born in Nassington except William and Rose who were born in Yarwell)
In the 1881.....
David HUBBARD Head M Male 43 Yarwell, Northampton, England Agricultural Labourer
Susannah HUBBARD Wife M Female 40 Nassington, Northampton, England Agricultural Labourer Wife
Hannah HUBBARD Daur U Female 20 Nassington, Northampton, England Dressmaker
Charles HUBBARD Son U Male 17 Nassington, Northampton, England Agricultural Labourer
David HUBBARD Son U Male 15 Nassington, Northampton, England Agricultural Labourer
William HUBBARD Son U Male 13 Yarwell, Northampton, England Agricultural Labourer
Rosina HUBBARD Daur U Female 11 Yarwell, Northampton, England Scholar
Sarah Ann HUBBARD Daur Female 10 Yarwell, Northampton, England Scholar
John Henry HUBBARD Son Male 8 Yarwell, Northampton, England Scholar
Betsy HUBBARD Daur Female 6 Yarwell, Northampton, England Scholar
Joseph HUBBARD Son Male 3 Yarwell, Northampton, England Infant
Frederick HUBBARD Son Male 1 Chesterton, Huntingdon, England Infant
Thomas WADWELL Lodger U Male 23 Water Newton, Huntingdon, England Brickmaker
So my question is.......Did David marry both Sarah and Susannah or was it a mistranscription?
I have found a marriage reference for Dec 1/4 1858 for David Hubbard and Sarah Palmer, but can't find anything for Susannah.
My gran's cousin in Canada is certain that Susannah is the mother of all the children but I think Sarah is our direct ancestor and Susannah was a 2nd marriage....?
Can any one help or find any fact to prove or disprove my theory?
Thanks in advance
Love
Legs
xxxxx
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1861 census RG9 963 folio 51 Yarwell Northamptonshire
David Hubbard 1809 Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Head married Cottager of 16 acres
Fanny Hubbard 1811 Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Wife Married
David Hubbard 1839 Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Son Unmarried Ag Lab
Jane Hubbard 1842 Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Daughter Unmarried
Thomas Hubbard 1845 Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Son Unmarried Ag Lab
Henry Hubbard 1858 Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Son
No other David Hubbards on the 1861 census that would fit. No evidence on later censuses there were two David Hubbards born around the same time in Yarwell.
The registration district covering Yarwell is Oundle
From FreeBMD
Marriages Mar 1863
HUBBARD David Oundle 3B 274
No cross reference in FreeBMD to any other names
If Sarah and Susan/nah (it varies between Susan and Susannah on censuses) are the same woman and the 1871 census is incorrect, that perhaps leaves you with the possibility that the eldest child (Edward) may not have had his birth registered as Hubbard and that he was David's wife's son pre her marriage, whilst Hannah arrived very close to the event. (You would have to purchase a certificate to be sure of her mother's full name).
As a long shot on the 1861 census there is in the house of William Kirby of Nassington, his daughter Susanah (along with two other daughters and two sons) born circa 1843 Nassington and a grandson Edward Kirby born Nassington circa 1860. No trace of Edward Kirby on the 1871 census but then he could just have easily died or gained some other surname. This is a very long shot until proven or disproven - it is just supposition without any evidence to back it.
From FreeBMD
Births Dec 1860
KIRBY Edward Oundle 3b 197
Have you found a birth registration for an Edward Hubbard at the same time in Oundle?
At this point with the information from the 1861 census I can't see how the 1858 marriage still stands. I can find no Edward Hubbard born circa 1860 Nassington on the 1861 census or a Susan/nah or Sarah his mother.
Something to think about and the only way I can reconcile the evidence of the 1861 census with the subsequent censuses whether the Kirby theory fits or not - just an added bonus if it does.
Regards
Valda
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Thank you very much Valda,
Thats blown my theory out of the water hasn't it!! Perhaps my Gran's cousin is right, I'm sure he mentioned the Kirby's...hmmmmmm!
Do you think that the 1871 census with Sarah as the wife is a mistranscription then?
The Hubbard family you found on the 1861 is definately mine, i'm a bit confused about David senior's wife however.....Fanny/Frances...? Another mistranscription...?
As for Edward, I knew nothing about him until someone on here found him in a census as Edward Hubbard, son of David and Sarah....hmmmmm.......Why do my lot confuse me so much!!
Thank you again, I'll work on that lot and get back to my cousins and see what they say!
Love
Legs
xxxx
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Fanny is the standard pet name for Frances. She is Frances on the 1871 census. Both are often used interchangeably.
If the 1858 marriage is incorrect (have you purchased the certificate) you have no proof the 1871 census was not a misenumeration (not a mistranscription - the transcription is a correct copy of what the enumerator wrote).
The ball is in your court to prove David actually had two wives and the first was called Sarah.
The quickest way to check is to purchase one of the older children's birth certificates and the marriage certificate for the marriage in 1863 in Oudle.
Regards
Valda
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Thank you again Valda,
I have emailed all you have said to my cousins to see what they say....
I personally don't have any certificates relating to this family, but my cousin in Canada does.....I'm not sure what though as I only found him yesterday!
Being a student I'm unable to afford any more certificates at present but I'll add them to my never ending to buy list!
I think I will ring Oundle on Monday and ask them if they can confirm the spouse of the David married in 1863. I can't remember where the David Hubbard/Sarah Palmer (1958) marriage took place but I'll try to contact the relevant GRO too. I will also try and locate a birth cert for one ot the older children.
I still can't understand why Sarah shows on the 1871 census and Susannah on the 1881..........oh well....
Thank you again
Love
Legs.
xxxxx
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Census enumerators knocked on doors and took down what they were told in their notebooks. They then went home and transferred their notes into the census enumerators book. Plenty of scope for errors - mishearing with strong local accents tired enumerators etc.
Regards
Valda
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Hi Legs
To add to Valda
The index that is on Ancestry.com for Northamptonshire is also not totally accurate either so maybe looking at the original image would be a way of proving it has been noted correctly.
Cheers Sandy
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Thank you both,
As I said before I think the only way to crack this is by ringing Oundle GRO to ask for a confirmation and/or purchasing relevant certificates....
Will track down my cousins first and see what they think.
Love
Legs
xxxx
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Hi Legs ;D
This web page may be of help to you later when you have confirmed the details of the marriage you require.
http://www.stevejgarton.co.uk/NT.htm
Be aware that some Registry Offices will only look at a marriage if you know both partners names and the Church/Registry Office/Non-Conformity Venue.
Cheers Sandy
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Hi legs
I have just followed this family through all 4 censuses and can clearly see from the images that mums name changes from Sarah to Susannah to Susan and in 1901 she is back to Susannah.I'm pretty sure it is the same person each time-she is about the right age and always born in Nassington.
Maybe she just got a deaf enumerator the first time ;D
Regards
Carol
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Thank you Carol, :D
I really appreciate you spending your evening trawling through the census's for me!
I have to agree with you I think, but I will still call Oundle to double check!
Thank you again
Love
Legs
xxxx
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HI Legs
Whilst I was able to look at the G.R.O's today I searched the years of 1857-1862 for a marriage of David Hubard.Hubbard, Huddard but couldn't find him.
Maybe you will get better luck from the R.O.
Cheers Sandy
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Whoops forgot to list Baptisms I did find as Carol says Susan name is noted as Susannah on some.
Nassington Parish
PG NO DAY MTH YEAR NAME FATHER MOTHER SURNAME ABODE OCCUPATION
53 422 4 MAR 1864 HANNAH KIRBY DAVID SUSAN HUBBARD NASSINGTON COAL CARRIER
53 424 17 APR 1864 CHARLES DAVID SUSAN HUBBARD NASSINGTON COAL CARRIER
58 463 24 JUN 1866 DAVID DAVID SUSANNAH HUBBARD NASSINGTON COAL MERCHANT
Cheers Sandy :)
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Here are the others in Yarwell
PG NO DAY MTH YEAR NAME FATHER MOTHER SURNAME ABODE OCCUPATION
96 763 5 JUL 1868 WILLIAM DAVID SUSANNAH HUBBARD YARWELL LABOURER
97 774 3 APR 1870 ROSINA DAVID SUSANNAH HUBBARD YARWELL LABOURER
100 800 4 FEB 1872 SARAH ANN DAVID SUSANNAH HUBBARD YARWELL COAL DEALER
Cheers Sandy :)
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Thank you so much Sandy,
You're a star :D ;) ;D 8) :-*
That saves me a long drive and lots of petrol from Sussex to Northants for now!
I didn't know about their son William, so thats great. Pushing my luck a little but if you get another free minute next time you're at the RO would it be possible to look up a son called Edward, he is with the Hubbards on the 1871, born 1860 but we can't find him on the 1861. He would have been born 4 years before David and Susannah supposedly got married so I'd love a check on his parents if poss.
No worries if you don't get a chance, I'm hoping to get up to Northants in June, but it'll be on a weekend - is the RO open on Saturdays??
Thank you again
Love
Legs
xxxxx
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not sure which Register Office covers Oundle and Nassington.
could be Wellingborough or even Peterborough. You will need to check before you come as they are quite a distance apart.
Also for records that could be northampton records office or peterborough.
Probably worth a few phone calls
Sue
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Hi Legs :)
If you go to this web link it should give you all the information you need.
http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/Community/record/about_us.htm
Cheers Sandy
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Hi
You might like to know that one of the Hubbard daughters (Hannah) married Thomas Wadwell who confusingly became John Wadwell in later census records. Reason to believe that David's wife Suzannah, susan, sarah was related to the Wadwells possibly on her mother's side.
I have contact with descendents of this couple. Get in touch
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