RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: noytd on Thursday 22 September 11 12:11 BST (UK)
-
My great grandfather's brother Charles Jenkins (1878-1907) was killed in Bank Quay Station in Warrington on the 24 April 1907. The cause of death on his death certificate is recorded as "Killed by falling off his engine. Accident." An inquest was held on the 24 April. At the time he was a fireman working for the LNWR.
Unfortunately the inquest was not reported in the local Warrington or Crewe (where he lived) newspapers, the only mention of him is a report of his funeral which gives no further details of the circumstances of his death. The cornors report also seems to be missing.
So I was just wondering if I have any chance of finding out about the circumstances of his death? I am unable to visit Kew myself but would it be worth me employing a researcher to look at the railway records?
-
The survival rate for inquest records is poor, where they survive they are in the local record office. I would try them first, and then enter his name into the search engine of the National Archives. If it comes up then great, if not enter other details and see if there is anything.I would only employ a researcher after I had tried these other ideas.Further thoughts, try the Trade Unions, ASLEF first, and then RMT. Most workers were in a trade union, and the overwhelming bulk of footplate men in ASLEF.
-
Many thanks for the reply and tips.
I have tried searching on the National Archives website but found nothing. I have searched the online Lancashire Archives catalogue, again nothing. The Cheshire archives say that they have no coronors records outside of Chester dating before 1922. I know that Warrington Library have no idea where any report might be as they were the ones who found the funeral report for me.
I have also tried searching for Charles Jenkins on the Ancestry Railway records, but again nothing. However, this didn't surprise me. A lot of my ancestors were train drivers for LNWR during the late Victorian period and none of them appear on that particlar database. Do records for drivers/firemen for LNWR from that era still exist?
Recently I did email the RMT asking for information regarding my great uncle who was a NUR officeholder during the 1960s/early 1970s in Crewe, but they said they had no records at all dating that far back. I believe the University of Warwickshire have these records now and that they require a union membership number as the records arent indexed? Do you know if ASLEF still hold records dating back to 1907?
-
ASLEF was founded in 1881, and I believe their historic archive is comprehensive. Even if their records are at the University of Warwick, then it should be possible tyo make progress as I would think a case for compensation would have been made on the family's behalf by the Union's solicitors.
-
It is not possible to seek compensation for an injury/death 10 years after the incident.
meles
Forget that nonsense. Trying to delete, but can't!
-
Know that feeling too Meles :) If a claim was made and records have survived then I believe the report of the coroner would be included in the evidence presented in pursuit of a claim.
-
Further to previous posts I would suggest looking at the ‘Reports by the Assistant Inspecting Officers of Railways on Accidents to Railway Servants and other persons on Railway Premises.’ These were published following the enactment of the Railway Employment (Prevention of Accidents) Act in 1900 and cover the period from approximately 1900 to the outbreak of the Second World War with a short lapse during the First World War. The Reports were published quarterly and for each individual company or joint company give details of the circumstances of the deaths and serious injuries sustained by drivers, fireman, engine cleaners, train guards, brakesmen, shunters, capstan operators, dock labourers, coal tippers and permanent way men etc in their employ. The Reports also identify the cause of the death or injury and highlight any modifications to equipment and/or working rules or practices or supervision of the rules which in the Assistant Inspector’s opinion would avoid a reoccurrence of the incident.
The back ground to the introduction of the legislation was that whilst by the end of the Nineteenth Century passenger fatalities had been reduced in some years to single figures the toll of railway servants was still unacceptably high. By 1922 24 passengers were killed and 502 injured on Britain’s railways in the same year 225 railwaymen were killed and 3,886 injured.
The Assistant Inspecting Officers Reports were published as part of the Railway Accident Reports viz. Quarterly Reports of Inspecting Officers of the Railway Department of the Board of Trade (after 1919 Ministry of Transport).
I know that Birmingham Reference Library holds the Reports for 1907 as does the National Railway Museum, York. It would also be probably worth trying the University of Leicester.
In my experience railway trade union officials at a local level can be most helpful but unfortunately such cooperation does not extend to the Union HQs and there would be little point in contacting them. I hope the above is helpful.
Helen (information from husband)
-
Helen, Thanks for codifying and crystalising my thoughts. I knew there was a series of reports, but couldn't recall sufficient information to commit to a post. Regarding your experience with the rail Trade Unions, that is what I would expect from RMT, but my experience of the others has always been positive.
-
Many thanks for that most useful information, it certainly gives me some avenues of exploration :)
-
Please post what you find out on this thread. Good luck.
-
To give an update on my search for the circumstances of the death of Charles Jenkins.
Ultimately due to a lack of free time to visit places, I decided to employ a researcher to look around in the railway records in Kew. They searched the following:
RAIL 1053/36: Returns of railway traffic and mileage. Covering dates 1906-1912.
RAIL 1053/96: Accidents: inspecting officers' reports and Parliamentary returns.
MT 6/1658/9: Railway Accidents: notification. 1907.
MT 7/254: Railway Accidents, Index. 1907.
MT 7/255: Railway Accidents, Register. Files 38-13994. 1907.
MT 7/256: Railway Accidents, Register. Files 13995-end. 1907.
MT 30/9: Railway Inspectorate: Indexes to Inspectors' Reports Vol IX . 1904 – 1907.
MT 30/10: Railway Inspectorate: Indexes to Inspectors' Reports Vol IX . 1904 – 1907.
ZPER 7/78: Railway News, 1907 Jan.-June.
ZPER 2/73: The Railway Times, 1907.
Unfortunately, and rather frustratingly, there was no mention whatsoever of Charles Jenkins. So for the time being the circumstances of his death shall remain a mystery. It looks like a union record may be my last hope? The Oddfellows are mention in his obituary. I searched their online index but again found no mention of him. There is no mention of any trade union in the obituary. The obituary itself is fairly fascinating reading, talking about shops closing, curtains being closed on the route etc, even that the longest serving engine driver in Crewe served as a pallbearer.
On a positive note I have managed to find his grave in Crewe which provided some good information - a date of death for his wife and also a previously unknown child (who sadly only lived for 8 weeks).
As his accident is seemingly not mentioned anywhere, would I be right in assuming that his accident wasn't at the time seen as anything major? For example if he had leaned too far out of his engine and lost his balance would it have likely attracted minimal attention from the authorities?
-
Apologies, I should have said funeral report rather than obituary!
-
noytd, You are probably correct in your asumption oif the minimal attention, but even so there should have been an inquest, which would usually attract the attention of the press. It does look as though a TU record might really be the last hope of finding out, but have you tried writing with the details you have to the papers in Crewe? I have tried this approach with local papers and the response from their readers has always so far been positive.
-
noytd, have you tried this, http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventlisting.php Skoosh.
-
I have just tried the Accident archive so far have put in all Warrington locations and the years 1905 -1908 without success. About to spread the net further.
-
From a long and detailed look at the link provided by Skoosh, I have reached the conclusion that there was no enquiry into the incident, obviously traincrew at that time were regartded as expendable. If someone was killed, easier to hire a replacement.
-
Many thanks for that information and for your efforts redroger.
Having found his grave and taken a closer look at his funeral report it's brought up a new mystery. His gravestone is marble and his coffin was made of "polished English oak with brass mountings." I am assuming that these items would have been expensive? My family certainly did not have sums of money at that time, indeed his father who died less than 10 years later has no gravestone. His wife was a shop assistant, so I'm not sure where the money came from.
Previosuly I had failed to throughouly read the wreaths section of the funeral report (mainly as its extremely hard to read). However, one of the wreaths was from the "Associated Society of Enginemen and Firemen (north and South sheds)" and another wreath from "*unable to read* and Benefit Society (sheds)." I am assuming that this indicates that he was indeed a union member?
-
Likely a whip round at work to help with the funeral. A works club which paid sickness leave for so many weeks in those days, would also have helped out in a bereavement. Skoosh.
-
Further to previous posts on this topic. Firstly I must congratulate ‘noytd’ on the thoroughness of the research undertaken at the PRO Kew. I am rather perplexed at the lack of any formal reference to this fatality. A fireman’s duties involved a fair amount of clambering over the locomotive, for example in pulling coal forward from the tender, filling the water tank from lineside water columns, and altering the locomotive’s lampcode carried either at the front or rear of the locomotive depending on the direction of travel. All these duties involved working at some height above the rail level. In addition, depending on local circumstances, it was the fireman’s responsibility to couple and uncouple the locomotive from its train and where necessary at the driver’s direction he would leave the locomotive in order to notify the signalman of the train’s presence when waiting at a signal on a running line beyond the time stipulated in the rules. All these duties involved the fireman having to climb up into and out of the locomotive’s cab and were in addition to his principal duty of maintaining steam for the driver and helping him watch for line side signals. Most of the additional duties referred to were undertaken when the locomotive was stationary. But all were tinged with danger, a moment’s lack of concentration or a slip could result in death or serious injury.
I have looked at the accident archive mentioned in a previous post and would respectfully point out that it does not include the Assistant Inspecting Officers’ reports on staff injuries mentioned in my earlier post. It only details the accidents subject to detailed Railway Inspectorate inquiries which by the early 1900s were only a very small proportion of the accidents that actually happened. By this time Railway Companies like the LNWR generally carried out an internal investigation into each accident the report of which was forwarded to the Railway Inspectorate who then decided whether the circumstances of the accident dictated an independent investigation by the Railway Inspectorate. The reports of these formal investigations generally into major collisions or derailments were published and these are the ones listed in the accident archive mentioned above.
I had assumed that the accident at Warrington was the subject of an internal investigation by the LNWR and that a report was forwarded to the Railway Inspectorate. In this case it appears that no report was forwarded by the LNWR to the Railway Inspectorate. But it is known that the death was the subject of a Coroner’s inquiry. In this event because the death occurred on a railway the Coroner was legally obliged to notify the Board of Trade of the fatality. This duty had been introduced because in the early days of railways not all fatalities were reported by the companies to the Board of Trade. The legal requirement placed on the Coroner to notify the Board of Trade of all railway fatalities was therefore introduced to act as a safeguard. The Coroners’ returns of Railway Fatalities to the Board of Trade may still survive in the PRO Kew and do not appear to have been investigated by the researcher.
The other possibility is that the fatality at Warrington was recorded in the LNWR’s Register of Accidents. Warrington was located in the Company’s Northern Division and this Register may still exist. When I visited the PRO several years ago I inspected the Accident Register kept by one of the small Railway Companies taken over by the GWR in 1922. I was required to give an undertaking that any information contained in the Register would not be published but I found the information I was searching for.
Finally I would reiterate that the online Railway Accident Archive, though useful, is certainly not a complete record and that much more information is available in the Railway Inspectorate Quarterly and Annual Reports. For example between the years 1874 & 1876 lists giving the names of all employee fatalities and latterly injuries were published. After this date presumably to reduce the physical length of the Returns only statistical information was published. Publication of this continued until the onset of the Assistant Inspecting Officers Reports in about 1900 when investigations were undertaken into employee injuries and fatalities. But it would seem that the Assistant Inspecting Officers only concentrated on certain categories of accident and the incident at Warrington did not fall into one of these. I can only suggest that the locomotive was stationary and that the fireman simply slipped and fell while climbing up into or leaving the cab and that it was just a tragic accident.
John(Helen’s husband)
-
Previosuly I had failed to throughouly read the wreaths section of the funeral report (mainly as its extremely hard to read). However, one of the wreaths was from the "Associated Society of Enginemen and Firemen (north and South sheds)" and another wreath from "*unable to read* and Benefit Society (sheds)." I am assuming that this indicates that he was indeed a union member?
Yes, definitely ASLEF, the "Benefit Society" does look to be a possibility. On most if not all of the railways companies at that time there was no sick pay scheme, however, many of the companies did provide a voluntary contributory scheme for their staff, and the dues were deducted directly from the persons' wages. Some records of these societies have survived (e.g.GNR at Doncaster) and where this is the case they are lodged in the local record office, so this does give another possible line of enquiry, the title would be something like LNWR (Enginemens'?) Sick and Funeral Benefit Society.
I would like to offer my congratulations to John for his comprehensive covering of many aspects of the reports.
-
Many many thanks John for that very informative and useful posting, much appreciated.
I have tried looking at the funeral report again to see if I can make out things on it. The Benefit Society is unfortunately smudged but it looks like a four letter word, with the last three letters in lower case, but I can't make any of them out. The Oddfellow's Society seem to be the ones taking charge of the funeral the most - "At the graveside the Rev. S.G. Lloyd read the concluding sentences of the burial services, and the form of service appointed by the Oddfellow's Society was afterwards read by one of the brethren."
I am assuming that Crewe would have had its own branch of ASLEF? I have had a look at the Warwickshire University online catalogue and it doesn't seem to mention Crewe. Any ideas on who I should make an enquiry to?
The only other thing I have noted is that his funeral was held on a Sunday. Was this usual at the time? Or would it only occur on a Sunday to allow his fellow workers (according to the report over 170 turned up) to attend the funeral?
-
How are the branches listed in the Warwick University catalogue? Crewe would certainly have its own branch(es) of ASLEF, and you have previously mentioned North and South sheds if I remember correctly, it may be listed as North shed (Crewe) etc., but I would try and get in touch with the local current branch secretary. He might even have an old document which would point you towards the branch name. The Odd Fellows conducted the funeral I would think on the basis of "He who pays the piper calls the tune"
I think your assumption regarding the funeral being held on Sunday is probably correct, in those days it was a 6 day working week, with no time off, and if you werre lucky one week holiday a year.
-
To add to the locomotive sheds at Crewe, there was a small one at Gresty Road that belonged to the GWR.
-
I found a list of the branch records held by Warwickshire University here:
http://dscalm.warwick.ac.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=NaviTree.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqItem=ALF/8&dsqField=RefNo#HERE
I'll email ASLEF to see if I can get contact details for the Crewe Branch Secretary.
My great grandfather, Alfred Jenkins, was based at the GWR shed in Crewe. Thats another one of my family mysteries. My ancestors all worked for LNWR, but for some unknown reason Alfred worked for GWR eventually becoming an engine driver.
-
I have thoroughly examined the information provided by Warwick University, what is immediately apparent is that their record holding is badly incomplete in several geographical areas (including Crewe) This I think leaves open three possibilities:
1) The records have been lost. I think this is unlikely 2) The records are still at branch level, or in the hands of a regional official of the union, more likely or 3) The historical records from closed branches have been deposited in local archive collections. I imagine that many records come into this category, the problem will be finding them.
-
The Modern Records Centre at Warwick holds the archives of ASLEF. This includes membership lists in the annual reports. There are also reports of deaths in railway accidents for 1907 in the Railway Review and Records of Accidents.
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/services/library/mrc/explorefurther/subject_guides/family_history/rail/asrs/
The branch records do not usually contain membership information - they are administrative records. Membership registers of the ASRS (Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants) is partially indexed now for members who joined between 1872-1888.
-
I just wanted to put up an update that basically concludes my search for how my ancestor was killed.
Having hit a brick wall, I left my search for Charles's death and moved onto other genealogical lines of research. Today I was looking on the British Newspaper Archive to see if I could find any mention of members of another family lines. With a bit of time to kill I typed in "Jenkins Warrington" and set some filters. I couldn't believe my luck!
His death was briefly recorded in the Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser (26 April 1907). The inquest is not recorded but it gives the very basic facts of what happened. While the train was near Warrington (presumably coming up to the station) it was noticed that Charles was missing. He was later found injured on the railway line and died later that same day in Warrington Infirmary of head injuries. So it would appear that he fell off a moving train and that their was no witnesses to his fall. However, I am guessing that initially he was taken to the station where he died (place of death on the death certificate), and then that the body was taken to the infirmary?
-
Pleased you solved it.Will try the newspaper archive for some outstanding stuff now.