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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: frankwhite1952 on Saturday 17 September 11 12:50 BST (UK)

Title: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: frankwhite1952 on Saturday 17 September 11 12:50 BST (UK)
if anyone comes across the following or information about abby streeet area I would be most gratefull

Thomas henry white umbrella maker b. 1852
elizabeth white                                 b 1862
children of the above
john white                                       b 1880
william                                            b 1884
elizabeth                                         b 1886
ellen                                               b 1890
they lived in Loughboro and
3, court b Abby street leicester
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: Isobelruss on Saturday 17 September 11 13:05 BST (UK)
Can you give us any more information.Have you found them on census?Were they born in Leicestershire
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: frankwhite1952 on Saturday 17 September 11 13:39 BST (UK)
thank you for your quick response. Well, I found a birth certificate for ellen white, daughter of thomas henry, she was born on the 14th feb 1890, the certificate gives the addrees of, 3, court b, abbey street leicester. On the day she was born her brother,John was christened at St Patricks leicester. I can only assume that Thomas H visited the church to make arrangements for the christening of ellen. John was 10 years old when christened. could not find a christening for second child william. b 1884 sept. They moved Rochdale sometime between 1890-1891. The children were at that time at St johns school Rochdale, I gleamed this info from the st augustines school addmission registers in preston lancs, for by june 1892 they had moved to Preston. The only census I could find them in was the 1901, and 1911
the 1901 states that Thomas henry was born in Lambeth surrey.
the  1911 states that he was born in Boston USA

for his wife Elizabeth she was born in hull
the 1901 census states she was 46
the 1911 census states she was 49?

their second child ,William , died in Glasgow, june 1915 from a fall of the ship HMS Nereide in Dry Dock. he was a 1st class stoker in the royal navy

In preston they had three more children Honorah, mary, and my grandfather Henry.
Honorah became a nun and was at the poor claires convent in Liberton Edinburgh.

I searched the 1891 and 1881 in leicester for the family but could not trace them.
I looked at the poll books in leicester and found a white living at court 2b abbey street around the time when thomas henry was at 3 courtb. but apart from this I have been unaible to trace them.

if you come across any info in your research I would be mos t gratefull .
with every good wish Frank
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: frankwhite1952 on Saturday 17 September 11 13:44 BST (UK)
p.s. John
William
Elizabeth
Ellen
all born either Leicester or Loughboro

honorah
mary
henry
all born in Preston
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: diddymiller on Wednesday 21 September 11 09:25 BST (UK)
can check L'boro records this morning.

Diddy
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Wednesday 21 September 11 11:05 BST (UK)
Greeting’s…Folks

Welcome to the Leicestershire Boards ....Frank.

Your quote :~ “John was christened at St Patricks Leicester:. ….

Unquote

St Patrick’s Chapel was situated on Lower Garden Street
Which ran off Abbey Street.
This Church was a Roman Catholic Chapel. ….
There fore you need to search Non Conformist records
 for events held within that Chapel.

MIKE. ……
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: diddymiller on Wednesday 21 September 11 13:20 BST (UK)
checked freebmd and can not find baps in Leics. - see mikes post.

think this is them in 1881:newington, London

Thomas H. White   24  lubrications manufacturer.  b. Lambeth
Elizabeth S. White  24                                         b. Lambeth
Henry Jarvis  30 lodger

no JohnDiddy
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: diddymiller on Wednesday 21 September 11 13:23 BST (UK)
sorry ignore that one - found them in 1891 with lots of children - not yours!!

Diddy
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: frankwhite1952 on Wednesday 21 September 11 20:52 BST (UK)
thanks Mike and Diddy, my ancestors seem to be quite elusive, and i think they are being economical with the truth when supplying census information, but I will keep on searching. Thomas Henry White was born in Boston USA circa 1852 but claims to be a British Citizen I wondered if his birth was registered in the states or in the UK. if anyone has any thoughts on this matter I would like to tap into your expertice.

many thanks Frank
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: MargP on Thursday 22 September 11 14:00 BST (UK)
Hi Frank and welcome to Roots

On the birth certificate for Ellen what was Elizabeth's maiden name also does it give the occupation of Thomas and have you found a marriage for Thomas and Elizabeth

Margp
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 22 September 11 14:22 BST (UK)
or--- does the 1911 say how long they were married for?

Diddy
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: MargP on Thursday 22 September 11 14:50 BST (UK)
Good thinking Diddy
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: frankwhite1952 on Thursday 22 September 11 15:41 BST (UK)
Hi Diidy and MargP.

Ellen White (daughter) father Thomas Henry
                                 mother Elizabeth nee Douglas
1901 Census Preston
                                  age      Occupation      birth
 Thomas Henry White    49  Umbrella maker  Lambeth
 Elizabeth White            46                            Hull,Yorks
        Children
John                             22                           Leicester
William                         17                           Leicester
Elizabeth                      15                           Leicester
Ellen                            11                           Leicester
Honorah                        9                            Preston,lancs
Mary                            5                            Preston,
Henry                          2                            Preston

1911 Census Preston

                                  age      Occupation      birth
 Thomas Henry White    59  Umbrella maker   Boston USA
 
Elizabeth White            49  (married 34 yrs) Hull,Yorks
        Children
William                         27                           Leicester
Ellen                            21                           Leicester
Honorah                        19                            Preston,lancs
Mary                           15                            Preston,
Henry                          12                            Preston

there seems to be a descrepancy with Thomas Henry's birthplace and elizabeth's age
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: frankwhite1952 on Thursday 22 September 11 15:51 BST (UK)
P.S not found a marriage for Thomas Henry and Elizabeth Douglas. I have searched the GRO but to no avail.
the earliest census info I have is 1901.
the family seem to be a complete mystery. I believe they were in Rochdale sometime between 1890 and 1892 but I don't know when and for how long. In St Augustines Preston school records.it gives the following has John White's last school
 St John's, Roch,le ( I take this to mean Rochdale)

many thanks
Frank
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 22 September 11 16:36 BST (UK)
1.can you just confirm that the census says Boston USA and not just Boston (as in Lincs)

2. possibility of Thomas & Elizabeth marrying abroad? but then can't understand why can't find in census after children born.

Diddy
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 22 September 11 16:39 BST (UK)
following on from question one - there is a Thomas White b. june 1852 Boston on freebmd.

doesn't answer other questions though...

Diddy  ::)
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: frankwhite1952 on Thursday 22 September 11 18:04 BST (UK)
re:Thomas henry White. Yes it definitely states on the 1911 census that thomas henry White was born in Boston USA. Before I satrted my research my father said that he thought his GF was born in the states, however for many years I have been working on the idea that he was born in Lambeth, because the 1901 census stated that.

I think it depends on who supplied the census info for the 1901, could it be one of the children. I know that Elizabeth White (douglas) could not read or write. It is a puzzle. Also Thomas H and Elizabeth might not have been married

Thomas Henry died in Preston Workhouse in 1929. unfortuantely there is 100 year closure for the records. When John was Baptised at the age of 10 at St, Patricks church, the register dated 14th Feb 1890, the year of his birth was given as 27th Dec 1878 then crossed out and 1880 written in. Also Thomas Henry's spelling left a lot to be desired, although you probably by now know my spelling is not that much better LOL He spelt his name as Henery though all other docs spell it the correct way he could not spell the word umbrella, although his occupation was umbrella maker
Many thanks Diddy

Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: MargP on Thursday 22 September 11 18:45 BST (UK)
Hi Frank

The same as you I can't find them on the 1881 and 1891 census, because of the Scottish connection you mentioned I am wondering if they are on the Scottish census, on the birth certificate for Ellen is he an Umbrella Maker, the reason I ask, and this may be clutching at straws,  I have an 1891 Scottish census for the following

Thomas White b 1849 Mahenng Ohio USA his occupation was a Mason
Elizabeth White b 1849 Scotland
Living in Midlothian no children with them

I would also post on the Emigration Forum for Thomas Henry White if he was born in the USA what year did he come back and also on the Scottish Forum to see if they married there.

Oh and Frank try the spell check button it works wonders with my spelling lol

Margp
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 22 September 11 18:58 BST (UK)
no records coming up on scotlands people incl catholic records

Diddy
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: frankwhite1952 on Thursday 22 September 11 22:11 BST (UK)
Hi MargP and Diddy,
You seem to be going to a lot of trouble to help me, I am most grateful.
Looking at the 1901 and the 1911 census it does state that Elizabeth was born in Hull. I have no idea when Thomas Henry came to Leicester but it is quite interesting that he took up a trade that was quite common in that area. Going off the 1911 census it would seem that Elizabeth would have been around 15 yrs old when they married. This would suggest a marriage year around 1876-7, that is if they were ever married.
Title: Re: re:thomas Henry White umbrella maker
Post by: frankwhite1952 on Sunday 25 September 11 19:31 BST (UK)
thanks Mike , sorry I forgot to thank you for the St patrick's info
Thanks again