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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: lyndyloo6 on Saturday 17 September 11 00:08 BST (UK)
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I am looking for help to access the shipping records of the ss City of London in 1855. It sailed to the Crimea and supplied donkeys and the like. I am trying to trace William Allan (Aberdeen) who died 8/6/1855 but not sure if he died aboard the ship or in anther location.
Thanks in anticipation
Lynda
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Where did you get his death info?
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from his inventory in Aberdeen....I am looking to see if he died in GB or on board his ship and where to get details....if can...
Lynda
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Is his death on Scotlandspeople?
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no...I have not found it or in the Marine returns.....
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There are a few deaths in the index for that year
What age was he?
What was his mother's name?
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That part of my problem..I dont know who his parents are....the only info I have is that he married Catherine Carnegie born Bervie c1817, or C1807..(I have a birth cert for her in 1807, but realise htat she may have been a 'second ' Catherine born to the family) The reason that I say that is that she was 64 on her death cert. The married in St Clements Parish on 30/06/1842. I have no other info other than what I have posted about William Allan.
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One thing that confuses me is that Scotlands People does not seem to have the birth, and if she was 64 at the time of her death in 1881, then she would have been born in 1817.
Regards
Malky
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it confuses me as well..personally I think she knocked 10 years off as I have hunted for a death of Catherine between 1807 and 1817 to no avail.... so I think she be 74 when she died, or maybe William was younger than she was so she knocked a few years off....very confusing when you are trying to track them all....I have had this one on the back burner for a while as I have lost their son John as well...he is my 2 x gt grandfather and he seem to be alive when his daughter Susan is born in March 1880 and his wife is a widow in the 1881 census....no trace. He was a ships carpenter, but I am not sure if he would have been aboard a ship or on land.
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There is a Catharine Carnegie listed for 10 January 1814 at Bervie in the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints records.
Further,
Checking the census, post 1842 marriage at St Clements,
1851, Aberdeen, Old Machar, Catherine Allan (27)
1851, Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Catharine Allan (36) Note the spelling is of that listed in the Bervie birth of 1814.
1861, Aberdeen, St Nicholas, Catherine Allan (45)
1871, Aberdeen, St Nicholas, Catherine Allan (52)
1881, Aberdeen, St Nicholas, Catherine Allan (64)
Regards
Malky
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Father Alexander?
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she is 36 in the 1851 census....
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Have you checked this death
1855 ALLAN WILLIAM mothers name ADAMSON Male aged 39 DRUMBLADE /ABERDEEN
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this william is a farm overseer and died 26/9/1855...
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Hi All :)
Lynda, just adding the link up to your other post on William and family on the Aberdeenshire board for further background www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,554984.0.html
Just picking up on Malky's comments on Catherine, the census possibles that were listed, was this Catherine and children in 1851 given the address:
Catharine Allan 36, sailor's wife b. Bervie
William Allan 8
Diana Allan 3
John Allan 1
Sarah Weir 60, lodger, teacher b. Aberdeen
Address: 26 Commerce Street
What were Catherine's parents' names from her death entry? The submitted IGI entry that Malky mentioned for a birth in 1814 gave David and Margaret as that Catherine's parents.
There looks to also have been another daughter Jessie b. 13 January 1852?
Without being able to find an 1855 Scottish death cert for William, will be hard to certain on his origins :-\
Monica
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I am looking for help to access the shipping records of the ss City of London in 1855. It sailed to the Crimea and supplied donkeys and the like. I am trying to trace William Allan (Aberdeen) who died 8/6/1855 but not sure if he died aboard the ship or in anther location.
Thanks in anticipation
Lynda
Do you know at which port the ship was registered. I can find four vessels around that time with the name CITY OF LONDON. Registered in Glasgow, Aberdeen, Singapore and I think Milom.
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What info does his inventory give re his family, occupation etc?
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Catherines parents are given as Alexander Carnegie, Mason and Ann Milne....
Jessie was born in 1852.
I would ascert that the ship be registered in Aberdeen....but am probably very wrong.....
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His occupation was a steam ship stoker/fireman on the inventory...he left a total of £137 + to Catherine
Catherine lived at this address till she died
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Catherines parents are given as Alexander Carnegie, Mason and Ann Milne....
Lots of IGI children showing in the early 1800s to a couple with those names in Bervie...so Catherine's line quite straightforward ?!
William and Catherine don't seem to have followed much of a naming pattern for their children that we can see as yet did they :-\
Monica
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william, John and I think Diana were all baptised together in St Clements church. There was a John Allan as a witness....I have just moved house and some of my bits are still in the cupboard....grrrr
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1841 census has this record but no relationships given. They are included in a list of people living in Forbes Street Old Machar
James Allan 40 Occupation: Linen H L W
Ann Allan 40
William Allan 20 Occupation: Seaman M born Aberdeenshire
Ann Allan 17
John Allan 16
Margaret Allan 13
Louisa Allan 4
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If you look at the link I gave Lynda, you will see the information on which SS.City of London she is referring to;
www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=8
From my searching tonight The vessel arrived at Glasgow from Calcutta, via London, as per "Caledonian Mercury" 7th June 1855. William Allan died 8th June 1855.
There is 1 William Allan registered in the June Quarter in england
Lambeth 1d 244.
flst
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now...bear with me....I have a John Allan married to Ann Findlay on 11/3/1817....
Catherine is buried in a grave with a Margaret Findlay Bothwell who died in 14/3/1885...I wondered how this was as all the othrs there are ALLANS...what do you think? A connection
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What do you have regarding Margaret Findlay Bothwell to help identify her, Lynda?
Monica
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Hi, did you see my previous reply?
Regarding Margaret Findlay Bothwell -the only way to check would be to look at the death certificates!
flst
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Findlay is her maiden name.....she died on 14/3/1885...I was going to try and track her birth and see if she has a sister Ann...
Catherines daughter in law, Elspet Thomson Kempt died 18/5/1889, James Williamson Allan 6 days old is her son, 14/5/1889 are also in the grave...seems like a family grave..so I was a bit confused abut Margaret Findlay being there....so I will try and check it out just now...thanks so much for your help everyone, it is much appreciated....
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Ann Findlay was the daughter of Thomas Findlay and Barbara Farquar, born c 1795. James Allan is a weaver. daughter Margaret Allan, inmate registered her death.. Ann was 67 when she died in 1862. Thomas seems to be still alive. Diferent parents from Margaret Findlay though.
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Complete guess with the names only and possible dates:
...I discovered a record of a Margaret Bothwell marrying a S R W Shaw in St. Nicholas, Aberdeen in 1874. Furthermore, a Margaret Bothwell was born to a John Bothwell and Margaret Findlay in 1847 in St. Nicholas. The Bothwell-Findlay union took place in June of 1841. As I could determine from the census, John who married Margaret Findlay was born about 1819 in Old Meldrum which makes him: John Bothwell, (christened 1819 in Old Meldrum) the son of James Bothwell....
http://kylanderbranches.blogspot.com/2007/08/another-bothwell-mystery-cousin-maggie.html
Monica
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If you look at the link I gave Lynda, you will see the information on which SS.City of London she is referring to;
www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=8
From my searching tonight The vessel arrived at Glasgow from Calcutta, via London, as per "Caledonian Mercury" 7th June 1855. William Allan died 8th June 1855.
There is 1 William Allan registered in the June Quarter in england
Lambeth 1d 244.
flst
So he died after the ship berthed in Glasgow
His death should be on SP
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Taken from the 1851 census of Brechin.
"Catherine Allan, wife of William Allan, born about 1813, St Cyrus, Kincardine, age 38, Civil Parish, Brechin, Town, Brechin, Address, Upper Wynd.
William Allan, husband of Catherine Allan, born about 1806, St Cyrus, Kincardine, age 45, Civil Parish, Brechin, Town, Brechin, Address, Upper Wynd."
William Allan, b 23 October 1808, St Cyrus, Kincardineshire.
Catharine Carnegie, b 24 June 1811, Fordoun, Kincardineshire.
Catharine Carnegie, b 24 July 1812, Fordoun, Kincardineshire. (TWO ENTRIES).
No births for the spelling of Catherine between 1800 and 1820, for the whole of Kincardineshire.
Regards
Malky
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now I am confused....I have Catherine at 26 commerce street with the children in 1851, aged 36, born in Bervie....sailors wife.....
I have looked at Glasgow deaths and still cannot find our William..although I thought I saw one last night...
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Given that your man was a Fireman. The only vessel that fits the bill is CITY OF LONDON official number 26349 registered in Aberdeen.http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=8186 The other vessels with the name around in 1855 were sailing ships!
Her ownership details would fit too.
What "Shipping records" are you looking for?
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I was wondering if I can access his sailing records to see where he had been...
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"now I am confused....I have Catherine at 26 commerce street with the children in 1851, aged 36, born in Bervie....sailors wife....."
You are not the only one.
There is no record for the birth of a Catherine, or Catharine Carnegie in Bervie between 1800 and 1820, but, there is a birth of a Katharine Carnegie, b 20 December 1807 at Bervie.
Regards
Malky
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Malky, remember a large number of births/christenings went unregistered or records are now lost. There are a number of entries on the OPRs in Bervie the right period for likely siblings for Catherine, with parents as named in her death cert that Lynda has.
I think Lynda has all the censuses for Catherine between 1851-71 leading up to Catherine's death in 1880.
Monica :)
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hi..
There is no record for the birth of a Catherine, or Catharine Carnegie in Bervie between 1800 and 1820, but, there is a birth of a Katharine Carnegie, b 20 December 1807 at Bervie.
This is the one that I have...through time the spelling must have changed from K to C..I have her born in 1807 to Alexander Carnegie and Ann Milne in Bervie.... I am almost certain that she has knocked about ten years off and if that is the correct census for William Allan in 1841, well he was born c 1820, so she must have been older than he...I am still looking for Williams death certificate to no avail...nothing in Glasgow cept one which is not it....
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The census record mentioned above
William Allan 45 born: St Cyrus, Kincardine Occupation: Coachman Cate To Lord Panmard
Catherine Allan 38
Address: Uper Wynd Brechin
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Interesting record for 1841 census
Rees John Kirk 40
Christian Kirk 35
Alexander Kirk 10
John Kirk 8
Elizabeth Kirk 6
James Kirk 3
Catherine Carnegie 35 born Scotland Occupation: Ind
William Allan 25 born Angus Occupation: Tutor In Family
Helen Clark 25
Jessie Clark 20
Margt Lawrence 15
Andro Gloak 12
Address: Manse Of Arbirlot Arbirlot Angus
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I was wondering if I can access his sailing records to see where he had been...
If he had been around after 1861 then we could maybe find his details from Crew agreements via the ships O/N
All I can suggest is that you take a look in the National Archives at Kew.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=6&CATID=2354785&SearchInit=4&SearchType=6&CATREF=bt114%2F1
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For the benefit of those who did not check my original link, I've posted it again .The second link does not appear to take you directly to this vessel.Pity no one told me as it would have saved seaweed extra work!
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=8186
Please note that this vessel came to Glasgow via London. As there is not a death entry for him on scotlandspeople that is why I pointed out I William Allan died 8th June 1855.
There is 1 William Allan registered in the June Quarter in england
Lambeth 1d 244.
flst
Hope this information will be helpful!
Regards,
flst
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thank you flst...I ordered the certificate last night when u posted just to see if it is him. I am so grateful for all your help.....I am off to to Aberdeen in the morning to do some gravehunting....maybe on Catherines headstone there is something....
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flst,
Unless I have got it totally wrong, The vessel you refer to is the CITY OF LONDON official number 22808 which was a Sailing ship registered in Glasgow. (see my post on page 4) So not the vessel we are looking for
I have attached details from Lloyds register you will note her Captain was Blair as reported in the Caledonian Mercury article.
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Fingers crossed you get what you're looking for!
Hope the weather's dry for you.
flst
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Sorry for my ignorance but I did not realise an iron paddle steamship was a sailing ship! Were the other "City of London"'s around in the 1850's?
flst
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Seaweed, having reread your posts I understand what you're saying is that the vessel reported in the Mercury was not reg.26349.Are the crew agreements before 1861 not in the archives?
Is it possible to find the name of the captain of the other "City of London"? I could search the papers again!
Would the movements of this steamship be mentioned in the shipping news? Would it have been mainly working round the coasts of Britain?
Sorry to ask so many questions but I know you're the man with the answers!
flst
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The vessel seems to have been working out of Gravesend. I found it arriving from Dunkirk on May 17th & June 13th. This seems to have been a regular run. Of course William may not have been aboard the ship at the time of his death. He may have been to ill to work, but if we could find out which port the ship visited prior to 8th June it may pinpoint a possible place where his death was registered.
flst
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I've now found that the ship arrived in Gravesend on 6th June 1855. Don't know when it sailed but arrived back in Gravesend on 13th. The round trip seemed to take about a week.
flst
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flst.
I looked in the British library newspaper archive. Are you referring to the article in the Morning Chronicle (London, England), Thursday, June 14, 1855; Issue 27602?
If so then this vessel is also a sailing ship, possibly the CITY OF LONDON o/n 18847 registered in Maldon Essex. You will note the letter "S" in brackets after her name. This would indicate she was a sailing vessel.
It's very difficult to find vessels when there is more than one with the same name but I am convinced the one we are looking for is the Paddle steamer with the O/N 26349. She was quite a large ship for the time, 1067 grt, so could have made trips to the Crimea with little problem. (see post 1)
I think lyndyloo6 needs to look in Lloyds Lists for 1855 to see if CITY OF LONDON 26349 is there and what voyages she made.
there are copies here
Aberdeen Maritime Museum
Lloyd's Register Library
Shiprow
Aberdeen AB11 5BY
There may well be a crew agreement there or they may be able to direct you to a source. Crew Agreements before 1861 may exist but there is no easy way to find them that is why I suggested that the original poster look in BT114
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Thank you all for your help.. I will pop into the Maritime Museum tomorrow as it is on the quay and round the corner from Commerce street. I had already looked it up and kinda thought about going in to see what was what in there. I am so gratefull to all of you fo giving me a hand once again.....
Regards,
Lynda
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Thanks seaweed, I've certainly been barking up the wrong tree regarding the voyages!Yes, the information I quoted was from that edition of the "Morning Chronicle"
This seems to confirm your info.regarding the "City of London"
I've googled the owners & found this;
The Aberdeen Steam Navigation Company
In 1821 the Aberdeen Steam Navigation company began to operate a service from Aberdeen Wharf, Limehouse.
It employed a number of small sailing craft and, by 1828, steamers. In 1844 a 1100 tons cargo and passenger carrying steamer, The City of London, was added to it's fleet.
I'll keep on hunting.
The Maritime Museum is a wonderful place to visit. They may have some information on the Aberdeen Steam Navigation Company & maybe even the "City of London". I recall a previous request I had with them regarding crew agreements & they didn't have any. Wish I remembered who they suggested I try!
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No worries flst. We all continue to live and learn. A search of the internet says the company records of the Aberdeen SN co. are held at the Special Collections Library, King's College.
Aberdeen. There may be something there.
regards
SW
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Hi seaweed,
I've found out that the City of London was to run in conjunction with the City of Aberdeen on the Aberdeen -London route. It had 110 berths. I've found advertisements in the Aberdeen newspapers for this route but in 1855 the vessel named is the Commodore. When I looked at the articles regarding the Crimea War I noted that that "City of London" was captained by Captain Cargill .This ship had (no.66) after it's name. Also mentioned was the "City of Aberdeen",transport, (202). Is this a coincidence or do you think these may be the steamers?
What do you think?
flst
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Answering my own questions here!
From "The Ships List" I can confirn that both the "City of London" & "City of Aberdeen" were requisitioned for the Crimean War.
flst
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flst, I admire your tenacity see if Cargill is here.
http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capsC.pdf
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Thanks seaweed, I'm enjoying this query! I see there was a book published in 2000 called "Aberdeen Steam Navigation Company", written by Graeme H.Somner. I'm going to try & request a copy of it through my local library. Should make interesting reading. I enjoy "padding out" family history.It seems a shame to have only birth, marriages, deaths & census records of our ancestors. I also spotted an image of a lithograph by J.Henderon (published in 1844) online, of the "City of London".
Regarding Captain Cargill, there are a few listed & they all seem to have been born in the Arbroath/Dundee area. I've discounted some of them owing to their late date of birth. I don't know how old a man was before he became a captain. Would a teenager be too young? Without seeing an initial,or a registration number? (what is that number shown on the list?), on the ship arrivals in the papers I cannot think how to identify the correct one. Would the captain stay with the ship for several trips?
As you say, we learn something new every day!
Regards,
flst
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Your enjoyment is clear, flst!
I have to admit I have got lost on the different 'City of London' options :P Just adding this link http://www.historic-shipping.co.uk/gsssco/City%20of%20London.html with the mention of a Captain Cargill c. 1853.
Monica :)
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A little bit more elsewhere:
Captain John Cargill, born 1802 at Dundee, was listed as 'shipmaster' in an Aberdeen directory from 1831. His commands were:
True Blue, 1831-1833, 93 or 105 tons
Singapore, 1833-1835, 300 tons
Ann, 1835-1837, 130 tons
Kingston, 1837-1838
Queen of Scotland, 1838-1840
St Lawrence, 1840-1841
Duchess of Sutherland, 1841-1843
City of London, 1843-1855
He is listed as 'late shipmaster' 1856-1860, all at Aberdeen.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/print.cgi?cargill::535.html
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Thanks Monica, now I'm confused! I'm away to re read my findings to see where I'm going wrong!
flst
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Here's the information I found in "The Ships List";
(Steamships - years of service)
City of London (1) 1844 paddleship, 1869 converted to screw propulsion, 1854-55 requisitioned for Crimean War service, 1871 sold to George Russell, London, 1887 scrapped.
So, this proves that the ship William Allan was on was doing Crimean War service. It's sister ship "City of Aberdeen" was also requisitioned .
The link you attached from historic shipping states that Captain Cargill was master of another "City of London".
Don't know what to think. Perhaps I'll find out more when I eventually get a couple of books from the library!
flst
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More snippets!
From "Recollections of an Old Lawyer" by Lachlan Mackinnon 1935;The steamers plying regularly at Aberdeen in the 'sixties were mostly paddle steamers; but the screw was fast ousting the paddle, and no paddle steamer was added to the register of the port in the 'sixties. Foremost in size and appearance was the City of London, of 1116 tons and 231 feet in length, built for the Aberdeen Steam Navigation Co in 1844. She was one of the few transports that weathered the great gale at Balaclava Harbour during the Crimea War. Her beam of 52 feet 6 inches across paddle boxes was so great that she had little more than room to get through the dock entrance. She could make the run between London and Aberdeen in three tides on a huge expenditure of coal. She was described in the Illustrated London News of 27th July, 1844, as a "stupendous vessel, ... and with the exception of the Great Britain, which has not yet been to sea, she is the largest iron steamship afloat."
T
flst
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I'll say it again flst, I admire your tenacity!
Monica's post and link re CITY of LONDON O/N 158 certainly added a new dimension.
I did eventually find this vessel via her O/N but I still think the vessel we are after is O/N 26349 and your snippet from the "Old Lawyer" would help to confirm this.
The sailing record for O/N 158 on that page would seem to me to be a case where little bits have been gleaned using records of a same named ship.
For example 3rd April 1856. Passed Deal for London from Calcutta I suspect that was O/N 22808 which was very regular trader to Calcutta.
Non the less O/N 158 should not be discounted as there are enough references there http://www.historic-shipping.co.uk/gsssco/City%20of%20London.html to suggest that she may have had some involvement with the Crimea. 7th April 1854. Arrived at Portsmouth Harbour with a number of Royal Sappers and Miners for the East, from the Thames to replenishment of coal.
It all hinges on finding a Crew Agreement
regards
SW
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Thought Lynda would like to see an image of William's ship.
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/displayRepro.cfm?reproID=BHC2475#content
flst
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thank you all for the help that you have given me....Yesterday was a fantastic day. The weather was fantastic. I found Catherine Carnegies headstone, no mention of our William. Looked all around to no avail. I have ordered The death cert in Lambeth, june qtr and await the results of this.
I could not have done this without your help. I met a family who were from america looking for her grandmothers burial site, so passed on Deceased on line info to here and the Roots chat.
I need to get my head round using the NA site as I can never get my head round it...
Thr picture of the boat is amazing and difficult to think how hard it must have been to keep it well stoked so it covered the journey.
I found commerce street and it must have changed so much since my ancesters lived there...right on the harbour as well. Idid not manage to get to the Maritime Museum, but am hoping toget there on a weekend off very soon.
Thank you all for giving me a hand with this and you have stirred up my interest in my hobby again...I need to make time for it cos I enjoyu it so much. It was well worth the 300+ mile journey.
Regards to all,
Lynda
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Your post makes great reading Lynda :) Says everything and more about this mad, crazy hobby (AKA obsession!) of ours.
Monica
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Of course you are correct Monica. When people stop thinking Anarchy is the result.
regards SW
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I was wondering if I can access his sailing records to see where he had been...
If he had been around after 1861 then we could maybe find his details from Crew agreements via the ships O/N
All I can suggest is that you take a look in the National Archives at Kew.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=6&CATID=2354785&SearchInit=4&SearchType=6&CATREF=bt114%2F1
Did a bit more on this one.It may be worth searching the following pieces at Kew BT98/3231 BT98/3638 BT98/4065 BT98/4358 Crew Agreements of Aberdeen vessels 1853-1856
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thank you so much for this, I will check it in the morning...Thank you Seaweed I will let you know...Lynda
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Hi Lynda, have you received the death certificate yet?
Today I collected the copy I'd requested of the book about The Aberdeen Steam Navigation Company Ltd. According to the author, the company's history is based on the Minute Books covering from 1836 - 1925 (held at the University of Aberdeen.The 1940 - 1974 Minute Books were, in 2000, held at the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich.I haven't read the book thoroughly yet but I can confirm that in February 1854 the British government chartered the "City of London" @ £600 per week for use in the Crimean War.After a boiler repair at Granton, she resumed duties on March 20th 1855, mainly carrying horses & cattle from Genoa & Malta to Balaclava.
flst
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well folks, I am so disappointed...I have received the death cert, but it is not the one I am looking for....this William was 70 and single and from London....don't know where to go from here....
But thank you all again for your help..maybe they will always be a mystery......and I dont like mysteries....hehe..
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Oh, Lynda, what a pain :-\ :'(
Monica
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I can only say I am gutted after such a long wait...my fault as I never sent for it immediatly...financial constraint...recession....hehe, but will find it though....such is my confidence..lol
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Just re-reading from the beginning for new inspirations ::)
None yet :P but one thing suddenly jumps out:
His occupation was a steam ship stoker/fireman on the inventory...he left a total of £137 + to Catherine
Catherine lived at this address till she died
Using the National Archives site for money conversion (old/new) www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/currency/default0.asp#mid to check how much £137 from the 1850s would be worth approx today indicates just under £6,000 in today's money. That is a lot of money for a stoker to leave behind you would think. Unless William has been a buccaneer of the High Seas...might be an indication or clue relating to his family's wealth?
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Oh Monica....I know it was a lot of money in those days and his wife had a boarder in some of the censuses, his son William worked in the printing trade. My gt gt grandfather, John Allan, (also William and Catherines son) just disappeared in 1881 after my gt grandmother was born. Apparently she did not know her father and I have not been told the story. He was a ships joiner, so it seems that father and son just disappear and it is so frustrating. many years now I have been looking for them and cannot get any further back on the Allan line or my Ross line....grrrrr....and there is no one left to ask..... :-\
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Never give up, things have a habit of turning up in the oddest places.It may take years. I've found that out myself!
flst :)
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awe flst, it just seems that there is nowhere to go now and I have looked at my options for a long time to no avail....every time I try again something else blocks me out...GR have regigged my tree and although it looks ok there are bits that are not alright...and as I am not doing my research on a regular basis now my memory looks like it is failing and I make mistakes...am a bitty down with the whole thing now....confused as well...I will leave it just now and have a look later, but thanks...Lynda
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Looking at the 1841 census for Commerce street gives the following transcription ::)
Dav Allas 30 born Scotland occ Blacksmith
Margt Allans 20 born Scotland
N K Allans 7/12 born Aberdeenshire
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HI,
Does that mean that there are Allans aged 7 - 12 years old there as well... and did it say which number n Commerce Street it was....raising my hopes here, but thank you...Regards Lynda
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Lynda, no number given and the age is 7 months
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1841 has a William Allan born 1810 occupation Boilermaker Journeyman living in Princes Street, Aberdeen and no sign of him 1851. He is listed with a female Harrel Allan ::)
There is a bit of a link between boilermaker and stoker and maybe William was married before marrying Catherine
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never thought o that one, but will need to wait till pay day on thursday before I can have a look at it, thank you for your help again, Regards, Lynda
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see what I mean...I would of clicked 7 months right away...memory....stress....omgoodness....thanks...
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Sancti, from 1841 FreeCen, Harrel Allan you mentioned with a William Allan, shows as Harriet Allan, 25, also born in Aberdeenshire.
Monica
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William Allan married Harriot Carnie 21 Dec 1826 St.Nicholas,Aberdeen.
Info from familysearch.
flst
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Willaim Married Catherine on 30/06/1842 in St Nicolas Aberdeen.
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It all hinges on finding a Crew Agreement or Logbook
regards
SW
William Allan died on board CITY OF LONDON 8/June/1855. Probably from food poisoning. Voyage Sevastopol for Malta. His effects were auctioned on 13/June/1855.
If you need copies of all the original documents, just PM you email address.
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Oh my, seaweed. What a remarkable find you have there for Lynda. You know she has has searched for so long and so hard!
Well done ;)
Monica
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Hi Seaweed and all,
Well found, Seaweed, never seen this before, where they auctioned off the deceased's goods and chattels. So much information, where did you find this information. Lynda will be pleased with this find.
Tom
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It was common practice to auction a dead man's effects "Before the Mast" and indeed the Merchant Shipping Act of 1850 made it a legal requirement. These were hard times with no Social Security safety net.
Seafaring was a hazardous undertaking and death was a constant companion which could strike any member of the crew at anytime. It was viewed by the crew as having a "Whip round" for the dead man's family. You will note some of the high prices paid. 4 shillings for a bar of soap, 1/ 6 for thread.
The information came from one of the links I gave on the 26/9/2011 "It may be worth searching the following pieces at Kew BT98/3231 BT98/3638 BT98/4065 BT98/4358 Crew Agreements of Aberdeen vessels 1853-1856"
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WOW WOW WOW... Absolutely fascinating find after all this time. I have never had any success on the NA site looking for records...I get so lost there...there was actually £11 from proceeds on board the ship...documented in his inventory...a total of £136.2.9d, £19.00 of which were wages.
I am so grateful for this information. Would thee be a death certificate and would he have been buried at sea. I will pm my email address t you ...I am so grateful. Thank you so much...my friends are all fascinated by my hobby and had gathered round my mobile this morning to look at the info.
Thank you Seaweed for your time on this matter..It means so much...now to find his son John Allan.. ::)
Regards,
Lynda
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Lynda, I have been waiting for you to log on to this news from seaweed...I am so excited for you! Big wow indeed ;D
Monica
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absolutely amazing find....I am so grateful for this...still not resolved my problem of who his parents are but I am sure there may be a death cert now. Poor man after shovelling all that coal. and then to die from food poisoning....
seems to have been a long journey as well...
I need to try and work out the site as I still have my gt grandfather Macdonald to find, although I know he left Montrose and went to Ghana...(the Goldcoast) and Williams son John seems to disappear between my gt grandmother being born in 1880 and the census in 1881 where her mother is listed as a widow.
So I really need to try and get my head round it..
Thanks to everyone for all the help I have received...I am so grateful
Regards, to all
Lynda
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I'm so happy for you. You were so disappointed when you got the wrong death certificate.
Told you to never to give up.
Well done seaweed!
Lynda, who did John Allan marry?
flst
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John Carnegie Allan married Helen Wemyss in 1877 and off the top of my head, I think it was Bervie
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John C Allan married Helen Wemyss on 26/06/1877, he was 27 and she 22 in Bervie. John is listed as a Ship Carpenter, Journeyman.
Susan Ann Gill McRobb Allan was born 17/03/1880 at David Street, Bervie.
In the 1881 census Helen is listed as a widow.
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Have you checked the 1880 Marine Return death for John Allan?
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Is that the one for the Diana..I saw one where a JOhn Allan was stabbed on board but was not sure if it was the one...it was some time ago I looked at this one...
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Further research suggests William Allan/Allen died from Cholera possibly in a Latitude near Balaclava around 8/6/1855 to 12/6/1855 (Dates vary) and left wages of £36 14 10 which was given to the British Consul at Constantinople. I have sent details to Lynda via email.
There is a big problem with the writting in the logbook and its very difficult to read.
Could his body have been taken ashore and buried in Balaclava?
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I see what you mean about the writing being difficult to read! I think it reads;
William Allan,seaman had an attack of diarrhoea...!
flst
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seaweed, might be an idea to post this clip on the deciphering board here on RC www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,425.0.html with a link back to this post just for background.
Monica
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I think it says, Diarrhoea and vomiting.....
died Saturday 12.12...
something about Balaclava....
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something about the 'navy' doctor to attend him but he died saturday 12.12
then something about ashore...
still looking..
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June 5th 1855, Tuesday, 4 hr am (?)
William Allan Seaman had an attack of diarrhoea and vomiting gave him the necessary medicine and sent for the doctor who prescribed for him an (?) at Balaklava had the Navy doctor to attend him but (or lest) he died on Saturday 12 am June 9th 1855 he was taken on shore and at the (?) of Balaklava Harbour at 9h (?) and his effects to collect and (received?)
John Cargill Master
John (?) Master.
gone cross eyed now.... ;D
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Gosh, Ruth, not surprised your eyes need a rest by now (I am so rubbish at this :P).
A simple calendar for June 1855 http://1855.calendardonkey.com/june
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its taken a few goes to get that far.... making it bigger only makes it worse - just gets even more blurry! ;D
(days are right according to the calendar ;D!)
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Thank you I have deciphered roughly the same... my eyes are crossing also...
Looks like I have to save up to go to Malta now...I had a hankering to go there anyway....
All this info far exceeds any expectations that I ever had..I am so grateful to all you...and for all the encouragement you have all given me...Many thanks,
Lynda
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June 5th 1855, Tuesday, 4 hr am (?)
William Allan Seaman had an attack of diarrhoea and vomiting gave him the necessary medicine and sent for the doctor who prescribed for him
Agree so far, then I think it continues:
... on our arrival at ...
Balaklava had the Navy doctor to attend him but (or lest)
I think "but" is right here - "lest" doesn't really fit.
he died on Saturday 12 am June 9th 1855 he was taken on shore
Not absolutely certain, but I think it might be "Saturday 1h A.M." (i.e. 01:00), in the same fashion as the "4h A.M." at the top.
and at the (?) of Balaklava Harbour at 9h (?) and his effects to collect and (received?)
Again not completely certain, but I'd hazard "at the head of Balaklava Harbor at 9h A.M. and his effects collected and received".
Can't do much better with the signatures, but the second one is qualified "Mate", not "Master".
Mike