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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: andferdav on Friday 16 September 11 15:23 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find any information about the O'Neill family who were in Carlisle from certainly 1811, when John was born there.
Mother of the family was Cathrine (1841 census shows no e in the middle) she was living in Carlisle with her son John (age 30 in 1841), daughter Cathrine (born about 1818) son Henry (born c.1820) and granddaughter Mary (9 months illegit daughter of Cathrine 2) and brother-in-law (guess he is, though 1851 census shows him as brother to Cathrine 2, which is not possible?) Hugh, age 48, born Ireland.
With the gap in ages between John and Cathrine 2 there are probably other children I cannot find.
Cathrine 1 does not show on the 1851 census, so I presume that she died between 1841 & 51, one possible death on freebmd jun 1844 carlisle.
I am guessing that Cathrine 1 was born in Ireland and married her husband there, but it is also quite possible that she was from Carlisle and he came over from Ireland. No idea what his name was as he was not on the scene in 1841, and I can't find any births of the children on IGI.
I am assuming that Hugh was his younger brother, but as above he may not have been.
Part of the family moved east to near Gateshead and that's the connection to my husband via yet another Catherine, daughter of Henry.
I am completely stuck as I've no idea where in Ireland Hugh and presumably his brother came from.
ANY help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Andrea
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Hi Andrea
Have you got a marraige cetificate for any of the offspring which would give a name for the father unless you're very unlucky.
Then it would be easier to find a marriage here or in Ireland as there are a fair few O'Neils at the best of times!
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi again Andrea
What did 1841 say about birth? Did it give I or S for Ireland or Scotland or in or out of county?
Emms :)
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Thank you.
I have a copy of the 1841 census and can see there is a mark in the column Scotland etc. but cannot make out if it is an S or an I. It looks more like an f, but is the same as for Hugh, who I know from a later census was born in Ireland. Thank you!
I don't have the marriage certificates for any of Cathrine's children, but that it a great idea - Henry would probably be best, at least I know he got married.
John I found with a daughter in later censuses, but never a wife, and Cathrine 2 had possibly 7 children who all seem to be illegitimate! On one census she appears as Catherine Montgomery, but there is no Mr Montgomery on it and I can't find a marriage on freebmd.
Thanks for the tips, I just got stuck and couldn't even think of how to get any further.
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AAARGH.
The only marriage for a Henry O'Neill in Carlisle on freebmd has an illegible page number. His wife Margaret was born in Scotland, so it's possible they married there any way.
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Hi
If you can narrow down the time period I'll see what I can see in the registers for Carlisle.
In fact if I had the quarter for the illegible page number I could check that too.
If you haven't found them next time I go I'll have a look.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Emms
Many thanks. The only marriage I can see on freebmd for a Henry O'Neill is Henry O'Neil (1 L) in q. ending mar 1843. The timing is probably right, the first son John (O'Neale) was born in q.e. jun 1843 in Carlisle, so if it is my Henry it must have been a shotgun wedding - at least he got married, unlike his sister.
His wife was Margaret - I think she might have been Irving, but it is tentative - a nephew Hugh Irving was with them on one census and with her sister(?) Agnes Wilson on another also as nephew, so I am guessing that he was the son of their brother. Henry & Margaret's 1st daughter was Agnes so it feels right.
On that thinking - Henry had an older brother John, and his first child was John, I wonder if Catherine 1's husband was John - I think it's an Irish tradition to name children after grandparents in a particular order.
Thanks again
Andrea
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Hi
You're welcome!
I'll see what I see.
Of course if they were just outside town rather than in it, it might be another ball game, but we'll see!
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Census shows the O'Neill family living in Botchergate in 1841 - I guess that marriages tend to take place where the girl lives though, so that might not be much help. In 1851 Henry and Margaret were living in English St. His sister Catherine (O'Neal) was still in Botchergate in 1861 and 1871.
Andrea
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Hi Andrea
i
I was in the record office today and I drew a blank with the parish churches in Carlisle but I'd wondered about the RC parish in Carlisle as I've used the registers for this parish a lot and know it well.
I was sure I'd seen O'Neils and indeed, there they were!
I'll have to send you the fine detail tomorrow as it's late and there;s loads of it on another document - I don't have my printer sorted yet.
Anyway, I first found your 1843 marriage to work back from and it was indeed your Henry O'Neil married Margaret Gallagher, fathers John O'Neil and John Gallagher.
There are also some children complete with godparents. John and Joseph and possibly more. I'll look a bit later next time and at what you have from the census.
I left off and looked at the earler register and did indeed find a baptism of a John O' Neil to John O'Neil but blank for wife. However a little later a Joseph to John O'Neil and Cath Shannon and I reaised that was the name of John's godparent.
I'll give you more detail tomorrow - I hope"
Best wishes
Emms :)
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By the way, there are quite a large group of O'Neils in the register. Take care if you come to use this register.
There is another John O'Neil having children at the same time!
Good night!
Emms ;)
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Emms
That's fantastic! Look forward to hearing more.
I had a presumption that Margaret was called Irving, I guess nephew Hugh must be the son of another sister not brother!
thanks again
Andrea
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Hi Andrea
Nice to have somebody pleased this early in the morning!
I actually saw a Hugh but I'd been on the machine a while and I forgot that comment in your post.
Searching Carlisle RC is a bit like my own Hoeys in Salford. This group[ of largely Irish descent have so many relationships between them all that once you know who you're looking for, you have to home in on them and leave out all their 4th cousins 5 times removed - well not quir=te! etc.
When I go back, now I know I'm on the right track, I'll try and flesh it out!
No reall success with the marriage though.
I wonder if they went back to Ireland? On the other hand, I have some TRC's who wenbnt to Gretna! Better than paying the Established |Church!!!???
I'll keep you posted!
Emms :)
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PS Looking at Hugh and the other info again, I also the Wilson marriage but didn't know if it was linked.
Emms ;)
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It would be so much easier if they didn't all use the same first names! My mother was a Pears from Northumberland - Henrys, Johns, Matthews etc. but it seems nearly every Pears family used those names.
We live close to the National Archives in Kew, if you ever want anything looking up there please just drop me a note.
Andrea
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Wow Andrea
What an amazing offer - that's really kind! I will definoitely take you up on it!
Most of my famil;y are in the north apart from odd detours to foreign parts, but we have one resally big branch in London and around. One major dream but not on the horizon at the moment or two!
Don't feel obliged though.
Meantime I will savour the thought.
Thank you again! :D :D :D
Emms :)
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PS Going back to your family, I'll put more details up tomorrow but I wasn' t bothered by Matthews but there are definitely more than a smittering of Josephs and Henry's in your family!
I did find evidence of a couple of other names you mentioned but I'll just put up the vital part of the main ones tonight when I've had a look.
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi
An entry for a Hugh but no relationship to your lot given.
1844
Birth Sept 30 and baptism Oct 12 th for Margaret O’Neil of Annetwell St
Parents Hugh O’Neil and Margt Cain
Sponsors Patrick Flynn and Bridget Morrison
Sorry, bed time, but I'll have another go tomorrow!
Emms :)
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Hi Andrea,
I see that you have been trying to find out information about Rosetta Paterson's husband Reginald Arthur Brock. We have been trying to do the reverse in that we know lots about Reginald, but little about Rosetta...
Reginald was my grandfather. It would seem that he was quite a roaming chap as he married my grandmother in 1924 (I see that this marriage was noted in another thread of yours) produced my mother before disappearing back into his merchant navy world. My mother never knew him.
Some years ago during some resaerch into his past we came upon a second marriage, or rather, a second set of offspring (he didnt marry the second woman until after their 3rd daughter had been born in 1944). The discovery of this second family brought much joy to my mother who was an only child as she and her 3 half-sisters have been in contact ever since and we have had several reunions.
They also remember little of their father as he returned to the sea.
So, his third marriage to Rosetta in NZ in, I think, 1955 was the last in quite a complicated life....
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Hi Andrea
Sorry I( haven't got back to you.
There's been a lot going on here.
I'll be in touch this weekend. I'm sure there are more answers for you here.!
best wishes
Emms
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hi all
i went to school with a Johnathon O'Neill in the 1970s in blaydon on tyne
they were family Friends
a different oneill family married in to my family
a jean O'Neill married a Robert pearson in blaydon
there are some O'Neill graves in blaydon grave yard do not have were the O'Neill family are from
blaydon on tyne is near gateshead
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Anthony
Yes the O'Neill's ended up in Blaydon. I don't have any of the names you mention in my tree, yet at least. My Catherine O'Neill married a Devlin, then they moved to Tynemouth. I have not found any families for any of her brothers past the 1st generation.
Thanks for your interest
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hi
1 of the O'Neill family lived at polamas street in Balaton
the father was john O'Neill
mother Eileen O'Neill both have died but they had one son Johnathon O'Neill he will be about 43y old
i do know that he married in Balaton but do not know who to