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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: ASA1 on Wednesday 14 September 11 20:59 BST (UK)

Title: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: ASA1 on Wednesday 14 September 11 20:59 BST (UK)

I understand this was a chapel that was demolished. I am following up some very old notes scribbled on a family tree for the MORGAN side of my tree; it makes reference to a Morgan grave in Babell Cemetery; can anyone tell me if the cemetery has gone too?

If its still there I am looking for any Morgan graves; the notes mention a Lilian Morgan b.1912, d.1915 who is apparently on the headstone.

Many thanks,
ASA1

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 14 September 11 22:16 BST (UK)

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Swansea/Cwmbwrla

CWMBWRLA, SWANSEA, St LUKES

The Glamorgan Family History Society have produced a set of microfiche containing monumental inscriptions for the following burial grounds :-
Babell Calvinistic Methodist Church

regards

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 14 September 11 22:37 BST (UK)

Located Babell Chapel on an 1884 Ordnance Survey map.

If you locate Cwmbwrla/Carmarthen Rd (A483) on a google/street view map the burial ground is near the first roundabout after leaving Cwmbwrla and following Carmarthen Rd towards Cwm du

regards.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: bevbee on Thursday 15 September 11 16:40 BST (UK)

I was there not long ago and took this photo - not the easiest graveyard to search, but I'll give it a go if you give me the names you are looking for.

Bev.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: Non on Thursday 15 September 11 21:30 BST (UK)

Transcript of M.I. sent by P.M
Bev - the stone is mentioned to be a white marble open book hopefully will help you with finding the plot

Regards
Non

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: ASA1 on Friday 16 September 11 07:32 BST (UK)

Thanks all for the replies - it looks like a pretty overgrown place!

Hi Bev - as Non says its a MORGAN grave apparently with a white open book. If you are able to get there and take a photo that would be much appreciated, no rush though.

Regards,
ASA1

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: bevbee on Friday 16 September 11 16:52 BST (UK)

No problem, I'll look this week.

Quote

Bev - the stone is mentioned to be a white marble open book hopefully will help you with finding the plot

Good to have an idea of what it looks like - that's half the battle.  ;)

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: bevbee on Tuesday 20 September 11 15:39 BST (UK)

Oh dear, I've been today and the graveyard is so overgrown it's not possible to see many of the stones; it's very dangerous underfoot due to some of the stones sinking and being broken so as you walk you slip down holes.  ???

There has also been a lot of fly tipping there - I saw 4 settees and a bag of clothes strewn around as well as cans and bottles etc. It looks as if the area is used in the nights - I won't guess what for.

Add to that the fact that the Japanese Knotweed hasn't been cleared for some time and you'll get the picture. As the stone you are interested in is going to be a low one, it must be covered by the growth, if it still exists at all.

Sorry.  :(

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: ASA1 on Saturday 24 September 11 11:46 BST (UK)

Hi Bevbee,

Sorry for the delayed reply, I've only just seen your message. Its certainly overgrown there!! Thanks for trying and for the pics.

Kind Regards,
ASA1

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: greenday235 on Saturday 24 September 11 15:41 BST (UK)

babell cahapel demolished after 1946, dangerous to navigate alone due to vast invasive japanese knotweed.
original burial register available at SCC Archives. cemetery subject to two attemps of purchase by housing.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: greenday235 on Saturday 24 September 11 16:06 BST (UK)

 Capel Babell affected by fly tipping, vandalism and stone desecration.
unprotected and open to abuse, a high priority for housing associations to purchase, and numerous attempts so far resisted. >:(
no doubt will be sold in time and graves exhumed. :'(

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: hwntw on Monday 11 March 13 06:46 GMT (UK)

I've just found this site by googling Lilian Morgan Cwmbwrla.  Why did I do this ?  Because by chance, I heard on the BBC news this morning on Radio 4 at 05:30 a.m. just as I was waking up, that a 'Princess Lilian' of Sweden, born in Swansea in 1915 has just died.  I've now come to the conclusion that this would be a false trail to investigate the Lilian that you are interested in, as Princess Lilian's maiden name was Davies (found on another website).

However, Lilian Morgan is of great interest to me, as she was the sister of my mother Rachel Mary ('Rae') Morgan (who had a beautiful contralto voice and used to win eisteddfodau galore) and her 2 brothers, ie my uncles  Ben and Gwyn.  Rae, Ben and Gwyn were not buried in Babell - because by the time of their deaths, Babell had been demolished. Gwyn died in 1986 and my mother, rae, died in late December 2001.  I was born in 1950 in Abergavenny, but was christened in Babell Chapel at about 6 months old. I still have the certificate (all in Welsh), somewhere in my files.

I know a little about Lilian because Gwyn's 2 twin daughters (my cousins) are alive and I am in regular touch with them and visit at least once per year.   Lilian apparently had a beautiful singing voice and was always singing.  She died of an illness.  This is all I know about her, but when I phone my cousin tonight, I shall try to find out more about her.  The next time I go to Swansea, I shall endeavour to visit the old Babell graveyard to see if I can find something.  I know that her parents (my late maternal grandparents, Isaac and Elisabeth Morgan) were buried there.  Isaac spent his last few years in my home near Abergavenny with my mother, father and myself (I am an only child) and Isaac died in 1956.  His wife Elisabeth died (I think) in 1949 - not that long before I was born in 1950.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: bickleton56 on Friday 21 June 13 15:35 BST (UK)

I am currently researching a WILLIAM MORGAN buried    Nov 13th 1901.His wife was Elizabeth Morgan (nee PADLEY)
They were my Gt Grandparents
Anyone else researching these two PLEASE contact me...I do have other details re births/marriage etc that I am very happy to share.
I am GRAHAM PROSSER

Many thanks,
Graham.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: spadge1964 on Monday 17 April 17 11:33 BST (UK)

Hi,

Just came across this forum and was wondering if anyone can help locate the grave of my great grandfather, Benjamin Thomas, who is buried at the cemetery. Benjamin died on the 8th March 1904 in a mining accident at the Gendros colliery aged 34.

Thanks in advance.
 

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Wednesday 03 May 17 15:30 BST (UK)

Hello Spadge1964

Following a phone call to West Glamorgan Archive Service, webpage (http://www.swansea.gov.uk/westglamorganarchives) at Swansea Civic Centre it would appear that they have a document that might be of interest to you.

If you live within reasonable travelling distance of Swansea, I'll leave you to make your own arrangements to visit the Civic Centre, but you must read  this page (http://www.swansea.gov.uk/article/2924/Registering-for-an-Archives-Wales-readers-ticket) before you set out.  If you live 'away', I can visit the archive service and request the document be brought out from store and search for the location you require.  However, I know not when I shall next be near the Civic Centre.

However if your intention is to visit the actual burial ground, you might be interested in the following links:
1) an aerial view of the site, the former chapel was to the western boundary of the site. click here (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6346428,-3.9573858,121a,35y,45t/data=!3m1!1e3)
2) A ground level view from 'Carmarthen Road': click here (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6353775,-3.9582886,3a,60y,18.04h,90.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sB2gnVNZXOeOKYCcI8BnNeQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
3) A ground level view from Middle road: click here (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.636287,-3.9574,3a,60y,180h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss0Vl_3d_FgGVLP2im9fPxA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

I drive past this location from time to time and can if required comment on the visible state of the burial ground in due course.

JohnG_Swansea

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: spadge1964 on Thursday 04 May 17 14:05 BST (UK)

Hi John,

Thanks for the feedback and offer of help. I live in Hong Kong so would really appreciate you taking a look at the documents whenever you get a chance. Thanks again.

Regards,
Richard.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Sunday 07 May 17 18:50 BST (UK)

Richard,

This morning (Sunday) I unexpectedly found myself within a reasonable distance of the Civic Centre, with some spare time available.  So knowing that the West Glamorgan Archives only work Monday to Friday, I called instead, into the Civic Centre branch of the library service and had a quick look at their local Newspaper Archive and found the following news item in the "South Wales Daily Post, Tuesday, March 8, 1904"

FATAL ACCIDENT AT
FFORESTFACH
------
COLLIER KILLED BY A FALL AT
GENDROS PIT
Fforestfach,  on  Tuesday afternoon.   A fall
took   place,    Benjamin   Thomas,   collier,
Carmarthen Road, Fforestfach,  was killed on
the spot.  Thomas  who  was 35 years of age,
leaves  a  widow  and  three  young  children.
   Deceased recently acted as overman during
the  absence  of  the overman with  a  broken
leg.   On Monday  night  he  took part  in  the
voting for the election of Parish Councillor.
    Only   twelve   months   ago   last   August
Thomas's  brother  lost  his  life  in  the  same
colliery.
===============

I trust that although you didn't specifically ask for a newspaper search, that you find the above to be of interest.

Needless to say, I shall be returning to the Civic Centre as soon as is practical to complete the original commitment.

JohnG_Swansea.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Wednesday 10 May 17 08:42 BST (UK)

Richard,

Following communication with the webmaster of 'Fforestfach History' (http://www.fforestfachhistory.com/Collieries/gendros.html) I have been provided with a link to an earlier newspaper item, this time concerning the un-named brother mentioned in my earlier reply #16 of 7th, May.

Please visit:  http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3346454/3346459/81/Gendros

The link leads to what looks to me like a bit of muddled newspaper editing, firstly six lines about Joseph Thomas' original colliery accident, followed without a break by eight lines about a children's choir, then follows a column break and next a report of the Coroner's Inquest into Joseph Thomas' accident.

JohnG_Swansea

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: spadge1964 on Wednesday 10 May 17 18:44 BST (UK)

JohnG_swansea,

Tremendous information and thanks for taking the time to collect it together and send it to me.

Regards,
Richard.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Thursday 11 May 17 23:32 BST (UK)

Richard,

I have today (Thursday, 11 May) visited  West Glamorgan Archives and have accessed a list of burials at Capel y Baybel there are NO plot numbers shown for any grave.  So your request to:  ..  ..  locate the grave of my great grandfather, Benjamin Thomas, who is buried at the cemetery.  ..  ..  cannot be found via that avenue of endevour.

Having seen the state of the burial ground, I certainly, and I doubt if anyone else will be able to find the grave by searching the actual burial ground itself.

Having said that I have looked for both Benjamin & Joseph.

I have found three entries for different Joseph Thomas,  the most likely one being: with an address of Gendros, Raven Hill; buried 30 AUG 1902; age 20; (apparently) on page 5 of the original Burial Record.

However, there are five Benjamin Thomas' listed but none of which I can comfortably sugest is 'Your' Benjamin, they are: 1954, age 82; 12 Dec 1903 No age; 1921, age 80; 1925, age 51; 1933, age 79.

I'm not overly sure what other assistance I can provide.

JohnG_Swansea.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: bevbee on Tuesday 21 November 17 13:44 GMT (UK)

This graveyard is for sale;

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/you-can-buy-entire-graveyard-13928447

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: spadge1964 on Wednesday 22 November 17 04:46 GMT (UK)

Thanks.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: David morgan on Tuesday 13 February 18 19:32 GMT (UK)

Hi.      Checking up on the recent sale of the graveyard I came across this site and your message
My grandfather and g.grandfather are buried in the Babell and I have two small books with a list of all the graves
I would be interested to hear your Morgan link
David Morgan

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: spadge1964 on Tuesday 13 February 18 23:30 GMT (UK)

Hi David, I have links to the Chapel, but no “Morgan” links.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: KnotweedJo on Wednesday 14 February 18 12:02 GMT (UK)

You may be interested in this exciting new project The Babell Graveyard Project  http://babell-chapel.com/
Regards Jo

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: sarah on Thursday 15 February 18 10:11 GMT (UK)

Hello David, Welcome to RootsChat

You will be able to access all functions of RootsChat once you have one more post on RootsChat.

bickleton56 please note the above.

Regards

Sarah

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: bevbee on Friday 16 February 18 13:54 GMT (UK)

Quote

You may be interested in this exciting new project The Babell Graveyard Project  http://babell-chapel.com/
Regards Jo

Great news!
See this from today's "South Wales Evening Post" for more details.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/abandoned-graveyard-bought-man-prevent-14294380

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: David morgan on Saturday 17 February 18 19:36 GMT (UK)

Have we any information on the identity of the person or people behind this initiative..This  be could be a breakthrough for those with relatives buried in the Babell graveyard
I had my grandparents headstone removed some years ago as the vandals were destroying surrounding headstones near to the main path
David Morgan

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: Nellie49 on Saturday 17 February 18 22:47 GMT (UK)

According to Walesonline web site this chapel graveyard has just been bought to prevent it from being developed:- https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/abandoned-graveyard-bought-man-prevent-14294380

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: spadge1964 on Sunday 18 February 18 14:23 GMT (UK)

I bought the graveyard.

Richard.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: bevbee on Sunday 18 February 18 15:19 GMT (UK)

Quote

I bought the graveyard.

Richard.

I'm so glad Richard - what are your plans for it? I'm local and am watching with interest.  ;D

B.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: spadge1964 on Sunday 18 February 18 15:24 GMT (UK)

Bevbee,

The website will be updated tomorrow with more details of our plans.

Best,
Richard.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: bevbee on Sunday 18 February 18 15:38 GMT (UK)

Great, I'll check in tomorrow.

B.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: David morgan on Tuesday 20 February 18 12:29 GMT (UK)

Rae Morgan
Brought up in the Babell I remember Gwyn Morgan well as a friend of my father. My friend John Williams remembers his mother Anice May singing in chapel with Rae.
I may be wrong but I think I heard that relations moved Gwyn and his wife from the babell graveyard to a private burial ground
David Morgan

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: mlrsuperstar on Saturday 24 February 18 16:57 GMT (UK)

I heard about this from Mary Claire Scott  from Maryland USA. She is  willing to come over and help with the clean up. If she does I'll come too all the way from......Bridgend.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: mlrsuperstar on Monday 26 March 18 19:51 BST (UK)

7 years later . The yard is about to be cleared of weeds and trash !!

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: JohnG_Swansea on Tuesday 27 March 18 07:54 BST (UK)

The Babell Graveyard Project website has been updated, connect to: http://babell-chapel.com/update (http://babell-chapel.com/update) and read more.

And  ..  ..  a page has also been added showing the layout of the graveyard, connect to: http://babell-chapel.com/grave-map (http://babell-chapel.com/grave-map)

JohnG_Swansea

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: spadge1964 on Tuesday 27 March 18 14:44 BST (UK)

Thanks JohnG_Swansea for the link. It was your research on Benjamin Thomas that started the project...that and bevbee spotting that the graveyard was up for auction. Many thanks to both of you.

Regards,
Richard.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: Fenian1956 on Saturday 31 March 18 14:17 BST (UK)

Saw your post below Richard.  I am from Cwmdu, now living in Fforestfach (not gone too far!) and very interested in the future of the site.  Have sent you an email about being involved in the project.

Pop lac am y dyfodol!  Keith Collins

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: spadge1964 on Thursday 12 April 18 14:26 BST (UK)

There is a community meeting to discuss the graveyard project at the Gorse Mission between 7-8pm on Friday 20th April, followed by a volunteer day at the graveyard to continue clearing vegetation and rubbish on Saturday 21st from 10am. All are welcome.

Richard.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: spadge1964 on Friday 16 November 18 07:21 GMT (UK)

Babel-chapel.com now includes a downloadable copy of the burial register from the chapel (original in the West Glamorgan Archive) and an index linking its records to a map of the graveyard and the survey completed by the Glamorgan Family History Society in 1990.

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: bevbee on Friday 16 November 18 13:34 GMT (UK)

Quote

Babel-chapel.com now includes a downloadable copy of the burial register from the chapel (original in the West Glamorgan Archive) and an index linking its records to a map of the graveyard and the survey completed by the Glamorgan Family History Society in 1990.

It's not working.  ???

Title: Re: MORGAN - Capel Y Babell, Cwmbwrla
Post by: bevbee on Sunday 25 November 18 11:52 GMT (UK)

OK, it's not working from the links in this thread (you get 404 not found)  but is working if you go directly to https://babell-chapel.com/

 ::)