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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Yoric on Sunday 04 September 05 17:44 BST (UK)
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Trying to trace the Montgomery branch that moved to San Francisco in the very late 1800s to very early 1900s.
My wife has a John Montgomery (her Gr Gr Grandfather) married to Catherine McIntyre in her family tree. They married on the Holy Isle, Arran in 1882. One of their children also called John Montgomery (birth date unknown) who married a Joan (last name unknown) who inturn then went on to have a child they named John Montgomery.
His last known whereabouts was in San Francisco and if still alive today would be in his late 70s to 80s.
Any information appreciated, Thanks
Yoric
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Hello
this may or may not be of interest to you
1930 US Census Oakland, Alameda, California
John M Montgomery, head, m, w, age 39, age at first marriage 30, no post secondary education, can read and write, born Scotland, both parents born Scotland, immigrated 1922, Naturalization pending, steam engine machinist
Joan M Montgomery, wife, f, w, age 36, age at first marriage 34, no post secondary education, can read and write, born England, father born Denmark, mother England, immigrated 1924, alien, no occupation
John R Montgomery, son, m. w. age 1 10/12, born California, father Scotland, mother England
this may be his birth (lists a maiden name that might help you)
John Richard Montgomery
18 May 1928
Male
Mother's Maiden Name: Thedens
Birth County: San Francisco
from Ellis Island
arrival Oct 29, 1922 from Glasgow, SS Cameronia
John McIntrye Montgomery age 31, married, Marine Engineer, wife Mrs. Mary Montgomery, 10 Murray Place, Lamlash, Arran, destination Tottenville, NY (friend John Forrester, 178 Manhattan Street, Tottnville, NY, coming to be permanent status in US
let me know if this looks likely and I will see what else can be found
Thelma
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Hi Thelma,
This sounds spot on to what I'm looking for ;D and although I don't possess the age/birth details about John or his wife. Comparing it to cousins within the tree, the age does appear correct (this makes his birth year 1891- correct to others within that generation line) . I'll have to inquire further to ascertain wether this was Joan's maiden name. But everything does seem to fit even what would be the approx age of John Montgomery now (if still around).
What is also interesting in the Ellis Island entry, is the friend John Forrester. Although that particular person is not in the family tree the surname Forrester is- as Uncle (name unknown, approx age in 1922 60+ years old) by marrage and of course cousin (George Forrester B: 1889 approx age in 1922 33 years old).
Thank you (keeping my fingers crossed)
Yoric ;) ;)
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Hello
This may be your John Montgomery born 1928
Name: John R. Montgomery
SSN: 075-26-8178
Last Residence: 91344 Granada Hills, Los Angeles, California, United States of America
Born: 18 May 1928
Died: 15 Apr 1993
State (Year) SSN issued: New York (Before 1951 )
with the date and place of death you could try to get an obit to see what is mentioned about his parents, etc.
Try RAOGK to find someone in California to assist you with that.
Also I know you can request the copy of the SSN papers but am not sure how to do that. Maybe someone else can explain how to proceed with that.
this may be something you have seen but there is an entry for your John Montgomery on another website that has his first marriage to Mary Fullarton who died in 1923 (it also lists his siblings).
http://awt.ancestrylibrary.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=mccabe1148&id=I5373&ti=5542
ID: I5567
Name: John McIntyre MONTGOMERY
Sex: M
Birth: 1891 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Occupation: Marine Engineer
Father: James Cook MONTGOMERY b: ABT. 1854 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Mother: Violet MCINTYRE b: 20 MAR 1871 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Marriage 1 Mary Christian FULLARTON b: 27 MAR 1899 in Blairmore, Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Married: 1921 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
ID: I5332
Name: James Cook MONTGOMERY
Sex: M
Birth: ABT. 1854 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Death: 15 DEC 1929 in Lamlash, Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Event: Death Informant: J. MONTGOMERY - son - of 11 Lansdowne Crescent, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Occupation: Joiner (Master)
Father: Alexander MONTGOMERY b: ABT. 1808 in Kilmory Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Mother: Ann COOK b: ABT. 1811 in Kilmory Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Marriage 1 Violet MCINTYRE b: 20 MAR 1871 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Married: 1890 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Children
Janet Elizabeth MONTGOMERY b: 1891 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
John McIntyre MONTGOMERY b: 1891 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Ann Cook MONTGOMERY b: 1895 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Violet McIntyre MONTGOMERY b: 1898 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Edith May MONTGOMERY b: 1899 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Marriage 1 Catherine MCINTYRE b: 24 JAN 1859 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Married: 29 NOV 1882 in Holy Isle, Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Event: Witnesses: in John W. INGLIS and Jeanie McINTYRE
Event: Bride's Age: in 23 years
Event: Groom's Age: in 30 years
Event: Groom's Marital Status: in Bachelor
Event: Bride's Marital Status: in Spinster
Event: Groom's Occupation: in Joiner (Journeyman)
Event: Bride's Occupation: in Domestic Servant
Event: Clergy : in Rev. Malcolm McLean - Minister of Brodick
Event: Bride's Residence: in Holy Isle, Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Event: Groom's Residence: in Lamlash, Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Children
Janet Taylor MONTGOMERY b: ABT. 1883 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Annie Cook MONTGOMERY b: ABT. 1885
John McIntyre MONTGOMERY b: 1891
Alexander MONTGOMERY b: 1893 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
Catherine McIntyre MONTGOMERY b: 1896 in Kilbride Parish, Isle of Arran, Buteshire, Scotland
all these listings are by the same person so looks like some information may have been incorrect and been adjusted.
Hope some of this helps you
Thelma
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Hello
I am guessing that this is the family of your Joan Montgomery possibly nee Thedens - father born in Denmark, mother in England, born 1893
1901 British census
Peter Thedens 38 Denmark Pellworm B Subj Lancashire Liverpool Bacon Curer
Elizth Thedens 38 Westmorland Milthorpe Lancashire Liverpool
Michael Thedens 11 Lanc Liverpool Lancashire Liverpool
Richard Thedens 9 Lanc Liverpool Lancashire Liverpool
Johanna Thedens 7 Lanc Liverpool Lancashire Liverpool
and this could be her birth
Births Jun 1893
Thedens Johanna Margretha W. Derby 8b 327
I can't find her immigrating under Montgomery or Thedens and there appear to be no Thedens born in England in the 1930 census in the USA. Maybe the name is indexed wrong on the ship lists or maybe she came through Canada or another US port.
once again, good luck
Thelma
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Hi Thelma,
Thanks for the link. It proves to be a great source of missing information regarding the Montgomery family in Arran and will keep me busy for days to come.
Some details differ from what I received from the Arran Heritage Museum regards John McIntyre Montgomery (1891).
According to them; the parents were John Montgomery and Catherine McIntyre not James Cook Montgomery and Violet McIntyre.
John and James were brothers. Catherine and Violet were sister. Brothers married sister. Both couples each had a son they named John McIntyre Montgomery ???
John and Catherine's son was born in 1891.
Whilst James and Violet's son wasn't born until 1908 and in 1929 was recorded as living at 11 Lansdown Crescent, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
The marriage to Mary Christian Fullarton is correct though and would have been the Mary Montgomery (nee: Fullarton) that arrived at Ellis Island in 1922. They married in 1921 and she died in 1923. I'm guessing he married Joan Thedans when he was already living in the U.S.A. As in the 1930 US Oakland Census it states that she didn't immigrated until 1924.
I think having these two John McIntyre Montgomery's on the same generation line causes confusion So either the Arran Heritage Museum has incorrect records or the website compiler has. Only death records are going to clear up which is correct.
Oh ??? by the way what is RAOGK and SSN papers (sorry new to genealogy research :-[)
Once again thank you for all your help Thelma it is very, very much appreciated :-*.
Stewart
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Hello
RAOGK is Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness. There are volunteers all over the world who will help with research in their local area, so you would need to look for someone close to where your John Montgomery died that could look for an obit and/or cemetery listings. A map of California would be helpful. Please make only one request every two weeks or the admin will remove your request (to avoid duplication of volunteer time and overloading of volunteers)
http://www.raogk.org/index.html
SSN - Social Security Number - all US citizens are required to have one to work, collect pensions, etc. When a person applies for one they fill out a form about personal information and when someone dies that form will include next of kin, etc. I live in Canada so am not sure how to request this information but I do know it is available for a fee (I believe about $35 US ??)
075-26-8178 - this is John R Montgomery's SSN
I think that some of the confusion may be that the information listed on the website may be old (it is very difficult to remove this type of outdated info so some people leave there and just update with new information as they go along). You can contact the compiler of this information by going to this site and using the email option
http://www.mccabeclan.com/
Perhaps this gentleman would be interested in comparing information about the Montgomery family.
Good luck
Thelma
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Hi Thelma :D,
Thanks for the quick reply.
I've done as you suggested and contacted the compiler of the site and hopefully will be able to compare notes if their interested.
I would have never heard guessed what RAOGK stood for, but hopfully it will prove fruitful. Thanks for the SSN number I'll try to use it to good effect.
Much appreciated,
Stewart. :D
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Hi. Yogic
I would say without a doubt that your Joan montgomery is my fathers sister.
She left Liverpool abt. 1908 bound Canada with many other young girls from
the orphanages.She shows up in the 1911 Quebece census as a domestic servant.
Our father is Michael.RIchard was killed in WW1.
I should be pleased to hear of any other family connections
Ten sheds
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Had a bit of a time locating the position in which your thread might fit as the thread owner was "yoric" and I was searching within 300 days of posting and on the Canada board, whereas this posting was '05 and in the U.S. ;D
Next time just hit the reply button on bottom of the same thread you are reading
I'll ask a mod to move it and attach it to the proper posting
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Hello
here is a link to the immigration record of Johanna Thedens in Canada in 1907
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/home-children/001015-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=68001&&PHPSESSID=ikq2ju8546v6h644socohvi6m7
She was a "British Home Child" and there is a website dedicated to the children who were sent to Canada through this program. The site is free, accessible to all, and voluntary. You are invited to visit and join this project at http://www.britishhomechildren.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=103
Best of luck - this is one of those good endings that are really a beginning sometimes
Thelma
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tensheds, should have properly welcomed you as well! Welcome to rootschat! I will add your information for "Thedens, Johanna Margretha" to the rootschat listing for home children.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,355348.0.html
Did you find all the info you needed in Canada? So sad, the loss of Richard Farrell Thedens...
and from the FreeBMD death information it looks as though they lost 5 or 6 children before the death of the father, Peter in 1905...2 of them Peter's namesake if the Thedeus one in 1900 was also theirs...
Thelma! so good to hear from you! ;D J.J.
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You might want to look into this death:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/CCBV-52M/p1
Joeanna S Montgomery born January 21 1895 / Death January 15 1994 approx. age 99
Social Security # issued in Texas
Last Residence: Los Angeles, California
I know her initials in 1901 u.k. were M. S.- "Johanna M. S. Thedens" but couldn't see her in 1911 Quebec to check month of birth...Do you have it to crosscheck tensheds?
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Hi jj
I do have Joanna on the 1911 of Canada the info. reads like this:
name Joanna Thedens
birth Apr 1893 England
residence Quebec Centre Quebec.
This seems to tie in. Do you agree?
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Hello
the Joeanna who passed in 1994 is very likely not Johanna Thedens
from the California Death Index at Rootsweb
MONTGOMERY JOEANNA
Date of birth 01/21/1893
Mothers Maiden name ROBERTS
Fathers last name STERLING
Gender F
Number issued in TEXAS
Last residence LOS ANGELES(19)
Date of death 01/05/1994
SSN # 457-18-8369
age 100 yrs
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I would say given the information in the death index it is
cetainly not johanna thedens. I did look hard at the spelling
but thought it could be a typing error.
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Thanks a million for looking in there, Thelma, not even close... ;D ;D Too bad they did'nt bother transcribing
that wee bit more while they were at it...sorry tensheds :P
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Hi Thelma
Disappionting, as much my fault as any ones.I should have spotted
the difference in the birth dates.I will keep my fingers crossed that something
will turn up on john richard montgomerys family.Johannas son.
many thanks.
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Alas poor Yoric may not be notified anymore of this thread... Have notified by p.m. him just in case, as this can happen when the site goes "boing" ( ;D My most technical term for what happens when the site loads up with too many people on...)
and yes, tensheds, we are a very popular site, so descendants might certainly see this and join in sometime in the future!!!!
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Hi Yoric
That was quiet an Interesting read, My Nan who is still alive today at the ripe old age of 91 has read these Post's.Her Mum was Mary Christian Fullerton & Father was John Montgomery my Nan was 18 months old when her Mum died, She was brought up by Catherine McIntyre untill the age off 21 until her Nan Died. She has a wealth off memory off the Family in Arran and still speaks to some members off the Family up there.
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Opps Just be corrected on My Spelling, My Nans name is Janet Fullarton Montgomery..!!
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Re: Johanna Thedens
I have a reference to Johanna Thedens, age 15, who immigrated to Canada in 1907 from Liverpool England. Found a reference to her in your post from 2005.
She was sent to Canada under the British Home Children scheme coming in the same group as my great aunt. She was mentioned in a letter my aunt wrote to their orphanage. Let me know if you are still interested in Johanna.
Madeline Busch, Carrying Place Canada
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Hello and welcome to Rootschat...I have notified a couple of others on this thread as unfortunately Yoric has in his profile that his emal no longer works...How he managed to get on and post that, so I have no idea why he did not inform admin that he was having problems and help reset to his new data so that he might be reached...but such is life.
This thread can still remain active, but the original poster won't be on anymore. Perhaps other interested parties will join back in the conversation once they get the notification. Either way, very nice of you to want to take the time to share what you have, madbusch .. J.J.