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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Monmouthshire => Wales => Monmouthshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: erinsullivan on Tuesday 13 September 11 09:24 BST (UK)
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I am trying to track down my SULLIVAN family. M g-grandfather WIlliam SULLIVAN and wife Ann DONEGAN . I am after Williams birth which according to census would be about 1846 and says born Pontypool. I have able to find one William in 1851 census (Trevethin, Monmouthshire) that seems about right. If so his father was Daniel SULLIVAN and mother Mary. Both born Cork Ireland.
William's marriage to Ann also not found and they were living in Canton by 1871 with one son Daniel (aged 1)
I can't see anything in freebmd though. Also on the look for how to find if any catholic registers for the area.
Fingers crossed
Erin SULLIVAN
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Hi I just wonder if Ann could be a Julia?
Marriage William Sullivan to Julia DONNIGAN June 1868 Cardiff 11a 370
Only a hopeful punt!
Keyboard86
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If his mother in the 1851 census was aged approx 50 then he is in Cardiff in 1861:-
Mary SULIVAN Widow 60 b Ireland
William 15 b Pontypool
Residing at Severn Road, Llandaff, Cardiff, Glamorganshire
Census ref RG09/4038/50/4
Keyboard86
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Hi,
The marriage with Julia is the ONLY one I can find in FREEBMD that seems possible. BUT census and childrens Birth certificates all say ANN. That is why I thought a Catholic register (if possible) might find it.
I also have the 1851 census and again it seems the only one that matches. BUT I cannot find a birth for William , again maybe RC registers.
One of Williams sons - James is my Grandfather who migrated to OZ. His marriage certificate also says b Pontypool and parents William and ANN.
Thanks for the help - still fingers crossed
Erin
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Hi again, the birth via Freebmd I agree does not want to show itself, as far as the marriage is concerned, unless someone comes up.with another Sullivan/Donegan combination I think it is a goer!
Maybe, ( This is possibly clutching at straws ) Julia did not like her birth name, and like my mother uses, and is known by her middle name Patricia , which followed on from her mother Clara, who was known as Pat, but her middle name was Minnie!!
Hope it gets sorted for you, the marriage cert may be worth a punt.
Keyboard86
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Yes I may have to spend my hard earned to check this marriage. Parish registers are so much more useful. She may have been a widow and the Formerly Name may be her maiden name not her name that she married under - if you see what I mean.
The missing birth may also suggest that William may not be his birth name. I have many Irish in my family and they are very fond of the use of pet names and middle names etc.
Maybe someone on the boad may by chance be a SULLIVAN of this clan.
Thanks for the help - much appreciated
Erin
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the records for St Alban's, Pontypool are at the county record office
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,143291.0.html
But, the record office is closed until next month as it's moving premises
http://www.torfaen.gov.uk/CommunityAndLiving/GwentRecordsOffice/Home.aspx
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Thanks for the information about where the records are. Is St Albans the only RC source for Monmouthshire?
Is the County Record office is the only place that holds RC records? If so then I will just have to be patient.
William moved to Canton sometime by 1871. Do you know from your experience where the RC records are held for Canton/Cardiff? I thought I would ask before posting elsewhere. So far - I have had no responses to this question I posted elsewhere.
Thanks again. I don't know my way around Wales Family History so any tuition very gladly received.
Erin
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it's the only one at the time in the parish of Trevethin
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Trevethan/index.html
Choice of 2 churches in Cardiff at the time - St David's & St Peter's, records for both at the archives in Cardiff
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Roath/Chapels.html
http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/get_collection.php?inst_id=33&coll_id=76221&expand=
http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/get_collection.php?inst_id=33&coll_id=76219&expand=
http://www.stpeters-roath.co.uk/
http://www.glamro.gov.uk/
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Thank you so much. I guessed you would know. Just to be sure - these were both RC churches in the 1868 - - period? I had a look but it seemed to me that there were no parish churches for the period I was looking. Clearly I wasn't looking in the right places.
If confirmed then does this mean the archives hold the Parish BMD records? Or just records of the Church itself? Hopefully you confirm yes and then I can plough on there while waiting the other archives to complete their office move.
Thanks again for your help.
Erin
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they are not parish churches as such. Parish churches implies the established church, the Church of England even in Wales at that time. C of E wasn't disestablished until 1920.
http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/get_collection.php?inst_id=33&coll_id=76221&expand=
If you open up the link, it shows what records the archives hold - baptisms from 1836, marriages from 1856.
St Peter's was opened in 1861, baptisms start that year, marriages a year later.
http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/get_collection.php?inst_id=33&coll_id=76219&expand=
So, baptisms & marriages for both, no mention of burials. Cathays cemetery opened in 1859, so burials likely to be there after that date. I'm not sure what you mean by parish bmds or church records. Churches only produce church records. Copies of marriages will also be at the registrars after civil registration. Also after the start of civil registration, burials couldn't take place without a death certificate. So, in theory, all deaths should be registered. The onus of registering births wasn't on the parents at the start of civil registration, but on the registrar. Not all births were registered, but from 1874 there were fines for non-registration. This is from Devon but has good info for all counties
http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/councildemocracy/record_office/family_history_3/civil_registration.htm
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Hi again. I meant Church records - Just in the habit of using the phrase Parish as I have looked at so many birth and marriage records lately and they normally show the Church and I tend to link Parish and Church.
I did read somewhere that people were a bit resistant to the "laws" of registering initially. Might explain my missing William SULLIVAN in the civil register.
Thank you for all the links , hopefully I can now find some more of the SULLIVAN side of my family and their story.
Erin
(An Australian NOT enjoying the British Summer)
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Hi Erin,
I have recently started tracing my tree and have run into a similar (or exactly the same actually) roadblock. I have been able to to trace my grandfather's tree back to James Sullivan, born in 1874 and the son of William Sullivan (my great-great grandfather) and Ann Donegan.
I was wondering if you had had any luck in going back further than William at all?
Cheers,
Luke
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Hello Luke
Not really. I have not looked recently. I will check my records. I believe that the marriage of William and Julia is our William and Ann.Have you had any luck with James siblings? Are you in Australia? Have you access to Ancestry as my tree is there.
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Thanks Erin. My mother has also been researching and has found birth records for two of James' older siblings (his brother Daniel and his sister Mary Anne). Both of those records also note Ann Donegan as their mother.
Yes, I am in Australia and have an Ancestry membership. I'll have a look for your tree there, thanks!
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Luke,
I also have the birth certficates for James and siblings. My tree is Private so when you find it ask for access in ancestry. Luke do you realise that James is my Grandfather? So drop me a line in ancestry about family links. Is your mother Anne?
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Thanks Erin - yes, that is me!