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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Lindyloo22 on Saturday 10 September 11 23:53 BST (UK)
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Hi, I'm hoping that someone might be able to help me in some way. I'm desperately trying to find out more about John DYNAN b abt 1806 in Ireland who married Ann PARRY on the 31st Dec 1827 at Cathedral, Manchester according to Familysearch.org. He/they may have been Roman Catholic or not, his second son's birth was registered in Rochdale. Is it possible to get access to records for that time and find out his parents details or witnesses etc? Anything that could help me.
He was I believe a Tailor in the 1841 census, then went to America in abt 1850 leaving his family behind. I've tried for years to find his parents in Ireland with no success but I noticed recently that there were a few Dynan people in the Manchester area in the early 1800's, so maybe his family moved to the area while he was younger....yes... I'm now clutching at straws and trying to think 'outside the box'..so any help with directions of what to do next or actual info would be fantastic. Thanks.
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Hi
Fathers names were not shown on marriage entries prior to 1.7.1837 which is the date when Civil Registration was introduced. Mothers names are never shown on English marriage certs
All you will get will be on the lines of the following - some of which you may already know
Names, date and venue
Spinster/bachelor - or widow/widower
If over 21yrs - will just say "full age"
Under 21yrs - "Minor"
Of this parish (OTP) - does not necessarily mean they were both born in that parish - just that they satisfied the short residential qualifying time required to enable them to marry there (approx 3wks)
The name and signature of the person marrying them plus the signatures of the 2 witnesses (occasionally more than 2 witnesses but not usual)
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Thanks for helping so quickly CaroleW, unfortunately that means I'm not really going to be able to find out any new info from their records then, at least I know that now and will have to try another route!
I think I'm just going to have to hope he's related to the other few Dynan's around Manchester about that time, and hope that some of my requests on the Irish boards come up with something.
Thanks for your help I really appreciate it. Best Wishes.
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If you do decide you would like to see a copy of the actual record, Manchester Library do offer a copying service when the exact date and church is known. The details are on this link:-
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?categoryID=448&documentID=464&pageNumber=4
Unfortunately, as CaroleW has already said, marriage records prior to Civil Registration, don't give as much information as those after. Another point to mention regarding the witnesses at Manchester Cathedral weddings, some of them were "professional" witnesses and you can often see the same names witnessing several weddings.
The Manchester Cathedral records I have do give an occupation for the groom so this might help you decide if this is the right person.
Luzzu
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Hello
You could always order a copy of the marriage entry of the Parish record for 1827, as this may state whether the marriage took place by Banns or Licence, if the latter you should glean more information from the licence. Witnesses maybe relatives!
You state that the first child was born in Rochdale in 1836! Quite a gap from marriage ........
If the children are baptised as 'non conformists', not all records are on line...... Griffith b 1838 is baptised at St Nicholas RC Liverpool in 1840 as Jacobus Griffith DYNAN s/o Joannes & Anna PERRY ? 24/05/1840 b 16/10/1838 godparents Anna WOODS Dionysins (Danielus) RYAN
Anna b 05/04/1842 bp 15/05/1842 godparents Nicholas DINAN & ? Rabbitt?
Would suggest that you look at all Lancashire entry's for DYNAN / DINAN to see if you can get a family group together
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You could always order a copy of the marriage entry of the Parish record for 1827, as this may state whether the marriage took place by Banns or Licence, if the latter you should glean more information from the licence.
Yes it will say whether the marriage was by Banns or Licence.
If you want to see an example of an Manchester Cathedral marriage record pre Civil Registration, send me a PM with your email address.
Luzzu
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This is wonderful. Thank you so much for helping me Elzabels and Luzza. :)
Its a lovely surprise to see so much new information when I've been stumbling around for ages! I never realised that the children would be registered in Latin and I certainly never knew that Griffith was actually a 'Jacobus'.
The names of the Godparents are going to be a great help I'm sure, I've never heard of Nicholas Dinan before but surely he must be a relation which is more of a link than I've ever had, and I will get onto the Lancashire Dynan/Dinan's asap and order some records-Thank you so much.
Elzabels you raise an interesting point and I was wondering about more children,as far as I know Charles born in 1836 in Rochdale was the second son, the first was called John (b. abt 1830)he was living in Anglesey with maternal Grandparents on the 1841 census so for many years I never knew he exisited, it took me years to find him by accident as originally I didn't know about Ann Parry's surname and in finding that and searching for her parents in Anglesey I came across him, but after 1841 he seems to disappear completely-another puzzle. I am wondering that that still leaves a six year gap so there maybe more children to be found! My husband likes puzzling crosswords but I find my family tree more than enough of a challenge!
Thank you all so much for helping me, I will get onto these links as soon as I can, your help has been amazing. Thanks and best wishes.
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Hello
Have you thought that John DYNAN has entered the UK via Holyhead as opposed to the traditional route of Liverpool?
John DYNAN jnr is shown with his grandparents Griffiths PARRY and family in 1841. If you look at the enumerators report with the census you will see where in Holyhead the family were. Irt mentions Thomas Street / Edmund Street/Baptist (Church) St to Mount pleasant, all visible on maps.google.co.uk
You may find this site of interest....genuki.org.uk
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Just having a look around I have come across a marriage on 16/11/1864 Liverpool St Bride of Ann DYNAN & Wilton CURWEN
father of bride John DYNAN dec'd Tailor!!
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Thank you so much for all your help, and Yes, that marriage to Wilton Curwen is one in my line.
I'm having difficulty getting hold of the marriage entry for John and Ann Parry, I've contacted Manchester Records Office about their 1827 marriage details but the chap couldn't seem to find them the first time, I've since given them the actual date but with no luck, I think maybe he's not allowed to spend time helping in this way as they'd be inundated with requests otherwise.
Do you know how to get the volume and page numbers etc that I would need to actually order a 'copy'?
Thanks again and best wishes.
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Hi,
I don't think they had volume and page numbers for prior to civil registration in 1837.
If you click on this link and download the form, you should be able to order a copy that way.
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?categoryID=448&documentID=464&pageNumber=4
The form just asks for the name of the church, the precise date and the names of the bride and groom.
They are usually quite quick so you should hear back from them in a matter of days.
Luzzu
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The marriage took place on 31 Dec 1827 ( familysearch)
suggest a phone call or e mail to
http://www.manchester .gov.uk/libraries/arls
will produce a more positive result!
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Thanks again Elzabels and Luzzu. Thats great I will get onto it asap, if I get something interesting-as I hope I will- I will let you know. Thanks for all the help and best wishes.
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Hi Elsbells and Luzon. Just an update as in more recent times more records are online and I have now seen the entry for John Dynan and Ann Parry/Perry…unfortunately there is no further info logged with that marriage at that time! Thanks for all your interest and help.