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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: annemoranie on Friday 09 September 11 19:11 BST (UK)

Title: 1871 census look up
Post by: annemoranie on Friday 09 September 11 19:11 BST (UK)
Hi

Please can someone look up the following family, we can find them on the 1881 census, details are:
Robert Kells - age 49 - born in Bengal India -  Pensioner 19th  Hussars
Robert Kells - age 10 - born Pimlico

Mary Kells - Mother - age 74 - born in Cork Ireland

living in Wandsworth in 1881

thanks in advance

Anne
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 19:36 BST (UK)
I can't find them on 1871 but I did find a marriage

23/06/1869
Roberty Kells Wid musician, father William a soldier  dec
to
Sarah Ann Matthews spin, father Samuel  a printer
at St Marys Lambeth
both living Lambeth but no address

son Robert William born June qtr 1870 Westmister St M ref 1a 383, wonder where they wer ein 1871, perhaps he was abroad ?,the fact Mary was Irish would they have been resident in Ireland as at 1871

Perhaps son Roberts birth cert might reveal an address

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: annemoranie on Friday 09 September 11 19:44 BST (UK)
Hi Louisa

thanks for your quick response and will need to check out the details, we think he remarried so the marriage you found could be a useful lead. I will also try and find the family on the 1891 census which might confirm if the marriage is his - do you think this would be a good way forward?

thanks for your time - really appreciate it

Anne
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: groom on Friday 09 September 11 19:45 BST (UK)
Wonder if this could be him?

1871
RG10; Piece: 2775; Folio: 62; Page: 24

Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Lunatic Asylum, Bicton Heath Near Shrewsbury, St Julian

KELLS, Robert   Attendant Upon The Insane      M   38   1833      Bangladesh  Meerut Bengal

Edited  ;D
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 09 September 11 19:51 BST (UK)
Wonder if this could be him?

1871
RG10; Piece: 2775; Folio: 62; Page: 24

Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Lunatic Asylum, Bicton Heath Near Shrewsbury, St Julian

KELLS, Robert   Attendant Upon The Insane      M   38   1833      Bangladesh

I wonder how FindMyPast made it Bangladesh? This was only created in about 1970 from the former East Pakistan?

The original says Meerut, Bengal.
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: groom on Friday 09 September 11 19:54 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Well spotted, I'll try reporting it to them.
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 09 September 11 19:54 BST (UK)
I've already done so  ;D
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: groom on Friday 09 September 11 19:57 BST (UK)
Well done.

It also says he is married.
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 19:59 BST (UK)
1871 RG10/608 FOLIO 65 PAGE 20
250 Waterloo Road Lambeth
Samuel Matthews 43 born City of London
Sarah A Wife 38 born Lambeth
Alice 16 dau Lambeth
Samuel 7 son Lambeth
Jane 4 dau Lambeth
Ada 14 dau City of London
Sarah A Kells dau married 20 Lambeth
Robert W Gr/son 10 Lambeth
Sarah A Hills visitor shown on index as wrong age but is 63 born Dublin

Robert W is shown as 10, should this be 10 months ?

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: groom on Friday 09 September 11 20:03 BST (UK)
So it looks as if he is working away from home and his wife is staying with her parents in 1871.
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 09 September 11 20:06 BST (UK)
Wonder if this could be him?

1871
RG10; Piece: 2775; Folio: 62; Page: 24

Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Lunatic Asylum, Bicton Heath Near Shrewsbury, St Julian

KELLS, Robert   Attendant Upon The Insane      M   38   1833      Bangladesh

I wonder how FindMyPast made it Bangladesh? This was only created in about 1970 from the former East Pakistan?

The original says Meerut, Bengal. 

I think this is the same person - if you look at the original image for 1881 it gives his birthplace as East Indies Bengal M***t which could well be Meerut.
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 09 September 11 20:10 BST (UK)
Here's the clincher  -  in 1881 Robert has a son Thomas and a daughter Sarah born in Becton Heath Shropshire in c. 1873 and c. 1875. This is where Robert Kells was working in 1871.
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 20:13 BST (UK)
1891 RG12/422 FOLIO 97 PAGE 12
Battersea

Robert Kells 49 born India pensioner
Sarah A 40 Blackfriars
Thomas H 19 India
Sarah G 17  India
Samuel 17 Westminster
James 12 Lambeth
Albert E 9 Kennington
Alice B 6 Kennington
Florence J 5 looks like Clapham
Frederick 2 Isleworth Middx
Phillip 6 mths Battersea

Gosh these are spread about, strange 2 children born different countries but same age

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 20:14 BST (UK)
Jen B , was he running 2 homes , not uknown

LM
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: groom on Friday 09 September 11 20:20 BST (UK)
Here's Sarah's birth

Births Sep 1874   
Kells    Sarah Gertrude        Atcham    6a   688
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 09 September 11 20:23 BST (UK)
Here's Sarah's birth

Births Sep 1874
Kells    Sarah Gertrude        Atcham    6a   688

Yes - Atcham R D includes Bicton.
And on the 1891 she is Sarah G.

I suspect someone has got in a muddle on the 1891 census.
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 09 September 11 20:27 BST (UK)
1901 census shows Sarah Gertrude Kells, born Bickton Heath, Shropshire, with father Robert born East India, Meerut.
RG 13 / 415 / 6 / 3
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 20:30 BST (UK)
1901 Lambeth
Robert 68 Pensioner meecut India ?
Sarah Ann 51 Lambeth
Sarah Gertrude 26 Salop Becton Heath
Alice Beatrice 15 Kennington
Florence Jane 14 Lavender Hill
Frederick 12 Isleworth
Phillip 11 Battersea

Alice Beatrice bapt 26/07/1885 St Philip Lambeth
Florence Jane bapt 03/10/1886 St Philip Battersea
parents as above

Pity the bapts for Sarah Gertrude  can't be found

Sorry can't go any further than 1901 census

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 09 September 11 20:33 BST (UK)
Well, the original request was to find Robert his son Robert in 1871, and I think you and groom have done so, even though Robert the elder wasn't quite where one might have expected him to be.
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: groom on Friday 09 September 11 20:42 BST (UK)
Agree JenB

Think we've solved this one.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 20:46 BST (UK)
I think if the originator can look at 1911 she might see how many births and how many years Sarah was married to Robert,
Robert William death found 1905 Lambeth aged 74, born circa 1831
Poor Anniemoranie must have a headache by now

yes, cracked it !!!

LM
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 09 September 11 20:46 BST (UK)
1891 RG12/422 FOLIO 97 PAGE 12
Battersea

Robert Kells 49 born India pensioner
Sarah A 40 Blackfriars
Thomas H 19 India
Sarah G 17  India
Samuel 17 Westminster
James 12 Lambeth
Albert E 9 Kennington
Alice B 6 Kennington
Florence J 5 looks like Clapham
Frederick 2 Isleworth Middx
Phillip 6 mths Battersea

Gosh these are spread about, strange 2 children born different countries but same age


I think someone - either Samuel or the enumerator - was in a right muddle when they did this.

It's clear Sarah was born in Shropshire, not India.

Samuel was born in Southwark in 1878, which would make him 13 at the time of the census, not 17.
Samuel Charles Kells, 3rd q. 1878, St Saviour 1d, 75.

I wonder where Sarah was in 1881?

Over to Anne, I think  ;D
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 20:52 BST (UK)
This is interesting

Marriage of
12/11/1899
Robert William Kells aged 30 Stock broker clerk, of 17 Jane St no father's name but occupation shown as Yeoman of the guard
to
Ann Guy aged 31  of 8 Jane St father James Guy

LM
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 20:59 BST (UK)
Sarah Ann is at home with her parents Samuel and Sarah on 1881 as MATTHEWS
1881 ref RG11/591 FOLIO 43 PAGE 1
Sarah Ann aged 29 MARRIED
LM
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 09 September 11 21:00 BST (UK)
Yes, just found that. James Kells aged 1 is there as well  ::)
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 21:31 BST (UK)
James was on 1891 aged 12 born Lambeth

LM
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 21:44 BST (UK)
I wonder what else Ann wants, we have perhaps gone further than she wanted but hey ho I have enjoyed it

With the surname it is easy, 4 of the boys were in some sort of force so they followed in their father's footstaps

LM
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 09 September 11 21:51 BST (UK)
Sarah Gertrude married
Frederick William Hill
1901
her father Robert William KellS yeoman of the guard

LM
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: groom on Friday 09 September 11 21:52 BST (UK)
It gets you like that sometimes doesn't it LM? You get on a roll and just need to see how it ends and if it all fits together.  ;D
Title: Re: 1871 census look up
Post by: annemoranie on Friday 09 September 11 22:10 BST (UK)
Hi Everyone

Thank you very much for all the information and answers a lot of questions i.e. that Robert Kells married twice and had 2 families. His first marriage was to a Christiana Harper in 1859 in India - but we have been unable to find out if she died in England or India - or whether they just separated - final piece of the puzzle. Need to print off the pages and analyse the detail - so thank you all very much.

Anne