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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: spook on Thursday 05 May 05 17:07 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I'm struggling and looking for some guidance :)
My Great Grandfather, John Douglass who was from Amble, Northumberland was lost at sea from a trawler on 27/12/1930 off the Dogger Bank.
He was born in or around 1864.
Any ideas where I could locate a death certificate for him ???
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Have you tried 1837online?
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I know that you can view births/marriages/deaths at sea...in the Family Record Centre in London.
One of my ancestors died at sea and I was able to get his death certificate by doing that.
Im sure other record offices would also hold the information
Good luck ;D
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Hi Spook
I can't tell you about death certs - but here are site about Fleetwood trawlers etc - might give you some ideas !
http://www.fleetwood-trawlers.connectfree.co.uk/industry2.html
http://www.kokand.karoo.net/index.htm
Check out this thread it might help
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,55327.new/boardseen.html
Annie
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thought I'd resurrect this thread :o
Still not had any joy finding this death cert but just had a thought - is there a 7 year rule or something about someone being missing for 7 years before they can be declared dead?
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Died at sea and lost at sea are two different things. Died at sea means a body (even if it was then buried at sea before the ship could make the next land) and therefore some proof of death and possible cause of death. That equals the possibility of a death registration. Lost at sea means no proof of death and no body (unless it is later washed up on the coast and identified - there are deaths registered at the end of each quarter for a depressing number of unknown people/bodies).
The topic has been asked about before.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,132892.0.html
The 2003 newspaper article is useful for the process that still must be gone through for someone to be declared dead without a body found.
Regards
Valda
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Just to resurrect this, I never did find a death certificate although I did find these newspaper reports.
Just goes to show how wrong family memories can be, lost off a trawler on the Dogger Bank indeed 🙄
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Neither of these deaths from the GRO are him?
DOUGLASS, JOHN ROBERT 67
GRO Reference: 1930 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM SOUTH Volume 06D Page 160
DOUGLASS, JOHN WILLIAM 66
GRO Reference: 1931 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 1137
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I don’t think so. I’ve made contact with someone who has an alternative date of death of 1926 as opposed to 1930.
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I don’t think so. I’ve made contact with someone who has an alternative date of death of 1926 as opposed to 1930.
But newspaper mention I can see (which is neither of the ones you have posted) is for 29 Dec 1930.
So reg might be in 1st qrtr of 1931. But I don’t see one other than one age 70 in Dewsbury district which seems a bit far away.
But, if they never found the body, would it have been registered 7 years later? Or maybe there was no need to sort out any legal matters so it was never done?
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That’s interesting thank you. Out of interest, which newspaper report are you looking at?
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29 December 1930 - Hartlepool Northern Daily Mail
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Tynemouth is Northumberland... first quarter death. Apologies if incorrect.
DOUGLAS, JOHN
GRO Reference: 1931 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 445
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Is that a cut and paste Alan? I can’t get that up in either Freebmd or the GRO
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Yeah off of GRO 1931 search...
First one Douglass , Two S's
One died in 1929:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
DOUGLASS, JOHN
GRO Reference: 1929 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 505
and the other in 1931: Douglas , one S
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
DOUGLAS, JOHN
GRO Reference: 1931 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 445
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Isn’t that a birth?
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Oh my god. Brain cross-circuit...
Yes you are correct. Too much GRO searching for me. Thought I flipped to deaths.
If he was born about 1864 and would be about 66... there is this one (under deaths)
DOUGLASS, JOHN WILLIAM 66
GRO Reference: 1931 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 1137
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If he was born about 1864 and would be about 66... there is this one (under deaths)
DOUGLASS, JOHN WILLIAM 66
GRO Reference: 1931 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 1137
I don't think that's him. This probate record looks like a match for that one, and this John William and Elizabeth appear to be in St Helens in 1911. St Helens comes under the Prescot (https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/prescot.html) district.
Probate index:
John William Douglass
of 30 Gleave Street, St Helens, Lancashire
died 05 Feb 1931
Admin
to Elizabeth Douglass, widow
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=douglass&yearOfDeath=1931#calendar
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There are a few other newspaper reference but none give as much detail as to what's already been posted. But just for your records...
Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer
29 Dec 1930
Mystery Of Man Lost In Gale
Boat Believed Blown Out To Sea
- John Douglas
- aged 66
- of Gordon Street, Amble
- last seen in a fish saloon at 10.30 pm
Blyth News
29 Dec 1930
Mystery Of Man Lost In Gale
Boat Believed Blown Out To Sea
[similar to above but briefer]
Lancashire Evening Post
29 Dec 1930
Man Disappears
- despite lengthy search by lifeboat, tugs and trawlers all day,
- no trace has been discovered of
- John Douglas, aged 66, of Amble
- Douglas is a night watchman on the dredger in Amble Harbour
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Thank you all, much appreciated :)
At least it looks like 1930 is correct.
Where do you find the newspaper reports please?
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The newspaper items are from the British Newspaper Archives, available directly from BNA or via FindMyPast (for some subscriptions).
I assume John was the husband of Mary (nee Dunn), and that she died in 1940 and was buried in Amble West Cemetery.
FindAGrave appears to have good coverage for the cemetery (https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2319441/amble-west-cemetery) but no records for Mary. It's possible she may have a memorial stone that just hasn't yet been photographed, and if so, it might possibly have a reference to John. It's a long shot, I know.
Do you know if any of their children married around 1930? I'm wondering if any marriage record indicates whether he had died or not, at the time of the marriage, as it may help narrow down the time period of a death record.
GRO reference:
1940 Q4 Death: Mary Douglass; age 76 (born c1864); Northumberland North Second; 10B; 798
Newcastle Evening Chronicle
01 Oct 1940
Deaths
Douglass
- Amble, 3, Newburgh Street,
- on the 30th September,
- aged 76 years,
- Mary, beloved wife of the late John Douglass
- internment Amble West Cemetery, on Thursday;
- leaving residence at 2.45 pm for
- service in Church of the Sacred Heart
- where friends please meet. RIP
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Thank you Cuffie.
Yes, that’s the one, Mary was my Great Grandmother. I’ve learnt something new there as I didn’t know that’s where Mary was buried, so thank you for that.
That’s a good point re marriage dates for their children, I shall do some digging.