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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: angiek on Thursday 08 September 11 14:25 BST (UK)
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I am looking for the baptism of my 2 x great grandfather Walter Joss bc1813.
Walter Joss married Philis Watson in Tynemouth on 24/2/1833. Philis was born in South Shields.
They had five children in South Shields where they settled.
Jane Maris 1836
James Barron 1838
Catherine Ann 1840
Alexander 1842
Philis 1844.
Walter was a master mariner and it appears that he may have died off the coast of Murcia, Spain in August 1858.
I can find no record of him in any census so have nothing which states where he was born.
Any help would be much appreciated.
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An inital search of the IGI plus or minus 10 years either side of 1813, any county has drawn a blank, as he was a master mariner he may have been born abroad.
Have you found any of this family on any census ??? if so please post the full reference numbers.
Also are you quite certain of the spelling of the surname. ???.
Do you have any of his childrens birth certificates to confirm the surname spelling.
thanks
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Where did you get the birthdate of c.1813 from?
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Have you found any of this family on any census ??? if so please post the full reference numbers.
In 1851 Phillis and the children are in South Shields, HO 107 / 2399 / 270 / 18.
Phillis is 'Master Mariner's Wife'.
In 1841 She and the children are also in South Shields, HO 107 / 289 / Book 6 / 12 / 18.
She is entered as a 'Ship Owner' :o
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Phillis and family are transcribed as Top in the 1841 census.
Phillis is a Ship Owner.
HO107/298/6 Folio 12 page 18.
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Phillis and family are transcribed as Top in the 1841 census. Phillis is a Ship Owner.
HO107/298/6 Folio 12 page 18.
...and she's Jop on FindMyPast. Durham Records Online got it right - they have her as Joss.
To be fair, it's very difficult to read.
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Hi
Not answering your question but there is an article about a Walter Joss a Mariner who was charged with the murder of one of his seaman in The Times, Wednesday, Feb 12, 1834; pg. 4; Issue 15399; col C Admiralty Sessions, Tuesday, Feb. 11.
Rosie
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Thanks for the comments.
His approximate birth date comes from a death record on familysearch.org
which states:
Name: Walter Goss or Joss
Gender: Male
Death Date: 01 Aug 1858
Death Place: British Consulate,Carthagena,Murcia,Spain
Age: 45
Birth Date: 1813
Occupation: Master Mariner
familysearch.org was also where i located his marriage and their childrens baptisms.
The 1881 census on findmypast confirms Philis as a widow and has her children all as listed.
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Thanks Rosie,
Somehow I hope that is not the same Walter Joss that I am looking for !
How would I go about finding out more about that story and the outcome ?
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It would appear to me that if it is the same person, then he was not found guilty in 1834 if you look at the dates he fathered his children.
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Thanks Rosie,
Somehow I hope that is not the same Walter Joss that I am looking for !
How would I go about finding out more about that story and the outcome ?
Are you able to access the article on the Times online?
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There were technical problems with that website when I looked earlier today, but i will try again.
I have noted that were a number of Joss' located in Aberdeenshire. I also see a marriage for a Robert Joss to Christian Marr in Aberdeenshire on 1/5/1824. Walter Joss had a daughter named Jane Maris or Marr so perhaps I should be asking my question on the Aberdeenshire pages...
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Hello 'angiek',
Can't help with the baptism, but can give you some details of his career. He was master of snow Andromeda, barque Alice Thompson and bark Jane (1849-50), plus at least four more.
Cheers,
Westoe
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Hello Westoe,
Thank you for the information. I have a Times article dated 4th Feb 1834 referring to an incident involving Captain Walter Joss on the Andromeda from St. Petersburgh. However, I am unsure if this is the same Walter Joss, as that would have made him a Captain at approximately 20 years of age. I would have thought that was unlikely ?
The name Walter Joss is not common however and the pieces of information I have suggest that he may have been from Banffshire and that his father was named Walter Joass.
I would be very interested to know the details of the other ships he was on with dates etc so that I can pursue that line further...
Many thanks,
Angie.
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Hello Angie,
Yes, in those days (pre- examinations for Certificates of Competency) he could have been a master at age 20. I have younger masters in my files.
However, I am unsure if this is the same Walter Joss, as that would have made him a Captain at approximately 20 years of age. I would have thought that was unlikely ?
Here is a link to online volumes of Lloyd's Register of Shipping:
http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/lloyds-register.html
They are searchable and, (smile), with Joss being a short name, there won't be creative truncations to make it fit into the narrow column allowed for master's name.
The book "Dictionary of Tyne Sailing Ships" by Richard Keys lists him as master of:
ANDROMEDA, 29 March 1833
HARVEST HOME, 3 April 1843
AMAZON, 22 September 1849
JANE, 21 December 1849
ALICE THOMPSON, 31 October 1854
plus two others that I can't name for you now because I don't have the book here with me.
10 May 1850, Joss and crew and some supplies were rescued from the sinking JANE off Cape St. Vincent en route to Quecec by the BRILLIANT. There are two references in Newcastle Courant newspaper on Friday, 31 May, 1850, and one in the Caledonian Mercury on Monday, 3 June, 1850.
Walter is not listed in Lloyd's Captains Registers, but there are 8 others with surname Joss (possibly kin?).
http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm
Cheers,
Westoe
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Hello Westoe,
Thank you for the details, it sounds fascinating and I will follow up on that.
I wonder if I could ask you to check your book for details of my great grandfather
George Gibson Johnson. (He was married to Walter Joss's daughter Catherine Ann Joss).
The 1841 through 1901 census shows the Johnson family living in Hill Street, Westoe.
I did find him in the Lloyd's Captains Register and I have copies of his certificates from 1854.
His statement of service leading up to that shows he was on the Dorothy and Hercules
between 1848 and 1854, however I have no information after that.
I understand from family that he supposedly died at sea around 1888. However I have no information about when or how etc. I would dearly love to find out details of
any voyages being taken at that time or circumstances surrounding his death. My research online
has led me to believe that deaths at sea for that year may not have survived.
Thanks & regards,
Angie.
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Hello Angie,
There is only one entry for George Gibson Johnson (there are several for George Johnson-s but none of those look likely).
Entry # 1331 (page 281)
snow ELBE
Official Number 24415
211 tons
dimensions 82.6 X 24.6 feet
built Sunderland 1826
Not registered on the Tyne (only scope of this book) until 1846.
Owners as of 9 November 1854 were Hannah Gibson, widow (48/64ths) and George Gibson Johnson (16/64ths), both South Shields. (Geo. and his Nanna?)
Master as of 16 November 1854 was George Gibson Johnson.
ELBE was sold-on 13 June 1862, and foundered at sea 23 November 1863.
Cheers,
Westoe
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Hello again, Angie,
I've just had a look at the newspapers. The last mention I found of ELBE with master named Johnson was leaving Newcastle, with coals, for Altona, on Tues., 25 September, 1860, so he appears to have stayed on her nearly six years.
On another note, did your George GJ have a brother Henry who died before 19 November, 1887? If so, GGJ gave a donation of £20. in his memory to the Indigent Old Age Society of Leicester.
.
Cheers,
Westoe
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Hello Westoe,
That's excellent, thankyou, your help is greatly appreciated.
George GJ did have an Aunt called Hannah and so that must be her.
I have a long line of Gibson's in my tree who appear to have been shipowners and master mariners and so I still have a lot of research to do on this.
I have asked my local library if it is possible to get hold of a copy of the Dictionary of Tyne Sailing Ships. I don't know the answer yet, not sure if there is a great demand for this book in Dorset ;)
Thanks again,
Angie.
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Hello Angie,
I have asked my local library if it is possible to get hold of a copy of the Dictionary of Tyne Sailing Ships. I don't know the answer yet, not sure if there is a great demand for this book in Dorset ;)
Good Luck! To the best of my knowledge that massive tome was a limited edition of 100 copies, most of which are in reference libraries.
Cheers,
Westoe
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Hello Angie,
Here's a bit more on GGJ.
If you search Google Books for
"Johnson, George Gibson"
you will pick up freely-downloadable The Mercantile Navy List 1861 (which has information to 31 December 1860), where you will find that he got his Ordinary Master Certificate #11051 in Sunderland, but that it had already been cancelled. Either he had already been reported dead or he had lost it at a BoT (Board of Trade) enquiry for poor seamanship or intoxication or whatever.
The pages of interest are:
Book page 78 which by Google's pagination is page 85
Book page 172 " " " " " " " " page 179
Book page 208 " " " " " " " " page 215
If you'd like to PM me with your list of Gibson mariner names, I will have a look in Keys for you when I'm at it again.
Cheers,
Westoe
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Hello Angie,
Here are the last two entries in Keys of Walter Joss as master.
Entry # 4492 page 707
snow VESTAL, 187 tons
76 ft long X 24.8 feet beam
built previous to 1808
Master 4 May 1837 Walter Joss
Entry # 4647 page 729
snow WILLIAM & JANE, 210 tons
86.3 feet long X 22.1 feet beam X 14.6 feet depth
built Sunderland 1846
Master 13 November 1850 Walter Joss
My apologies: I was too rushed today to look up your other names, but I will.
Cheers,
Westoe
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Hello Angie,
Did you get that PM I sent you on 14 December after looking up your other names? It's been 7 weeks and I've wondered why I haven't heard from you again.
Cheers,
Westoe
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I could not find any other reference to Walter Joss that backs up the following statement found on the Internet. "From his Merchant Navy Seaman's records show he was born in Macduff in 1805". {Macduff Banffshire or Aberdeenshire?}.
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Hello Westoe,
I did receive your message and my sincere apologies for not responding sooner.
Thank you very much for all the information. Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to
look at it in detail yet but hopefully will get to it in the next few days.
Thanks again,
Angie.
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I could not find any other reference to Walter Joss that backs up the following statement found on the Internet. "From his Merchant Navy Seaman's records show he was born in Macduff in 1805". {Macduff Banffshire or Aberdeenshire?}.
Hello BarryD,
Since 23 Feb this year FindMyPast has offered images of merchant navy records 1835-1941. Searching for Walter Joss brings 5 hits for Macduff, Banffshire and 1 for Peterhead, Aberdeenshire.
Here's the link:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/merchant-navy-seamen
Cheers,
Westoe
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More information on the career of Walter Joss is now available on Ancestry in the "Masters and Mates" database added September 2012. The search engine takes you directly to the certificate image. You'll need to use the scroll arrows backwards and forwards from that image to see the rest of the file.
Cheers,
Westoe
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I have Josses in my tree. No sign of a Walter, but the earliest is Alexander born 27.12.1686, followed by Alexander b 6.6.1763 Fylingdales North Yorkshire.
My branch then goes down to a John Tovey Joss 1829 London.
No real help, but may give an idea where to start looking. It´s not a common name.
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walter joss is my 3xggandfather my line is his son james baron joss
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Hello Angie and Mouseytuck,
Familysearch may not be correct on his death Angie. I doubt that he actually died at the British Consulate in Carthagena as per your Reply #7 on this thread, but his death would have been *reported to* that consular office because he died either in or off Carthegena as master of the THOMAS FIELDING and the date is given as 1 August 1858. There! That's another vessel name for you to add to your list, and I have yet another one. From November 1855 to June 1857, he was master of ELIZABETH.
Source: National Archives file BT 124/5
Cheers,
Westoe