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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northamptonshire => England => Northamptonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: salhyde on Sunday 04 September 11 06:35 BST (UK)

Title: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Sunday 04 September 11 06:35 BST (UK)

I have 2 families who I can't seem to find marriage dates nor maiden names for.

 1) Edward James b 1789 marries an Esther ? b 1796. I know they lived in Ecton Northamptonshire. The first born child was Sarah James b1826 and Mary James b1826 then my relative Rachel James b1839 who went on to marry William Hyde.
also
2) William Driver b1804 marries a Martha ? b1799 of Chelveston Northamptonshire. There is one child born in 1821 Ephraim, then a gap to 1833, so not 100% sure if Ephraim was a child from a previous relationship or perhaps a nephew? He lives next door in the 1841 census. Other children include: William, Martha, Joseph and James Driver.

If I had a date for the marriages I could then order the certificates. I have been hunting for some time, so it could be that these are unavailable perhaps?

Thank You very much, in advance to anyone who can help me  :)

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 04 September 11 07:15 BST (UK)

Hi

Welcome to rootschat  :)

From freereg   http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl   

Higham Ferrers  St Mary the Virgin
MarriageDate 18 Mar 1827
GroomForename William
GroomSurname DRIVER
GroomAge 
GroomParish Higham Ferrers
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation 
GroomAbode 
BrideForename Martha
BrideSurname HALE
BrideAge 
BrideParish Higham Ferrers
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode 
GroomFatherForename 
GroomFatherSurname 
GroomFatherOccupation 
BrideFatherForename 
BrideFatherSurname 
BrideFatherOccupation 
WitnessOneForename 
WitnessOneSurname 
WitnessTwoForename 
WitnessTwoSurname 
Notes 
FileNumber 5285

This couple are also witnesses to the marriage of Abraham Tight and Mary Ann Driver also on freereg married at Chelveston


Certificates are not available until civil registration started in 1837

Rosie

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Sunday 04 September 11 07:24 BST (UK)

Thanks Rosie,
Awesome! I've spent ages looking for those  :) The other couple you mention are also my ancestors Abraham Tite and Mary Ann Driver. I'm sure their children married my gg grandfather William Driver and my great g grandmother Sarah Ann Tite.
Huge thankyou!

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Sunday 04 September 11 13:30 BST (UK)

Hi to you both.

Welcome from me also katvonD.  :)

The Northants Marriage Indexes also has a marriage for Edward James
yet later than you mention katvonD .

Northampton St. Giles
19 Feb 1835
Edward JAMES of Ecton & Easter ROBINSON otp   

The marriages you seek are pre 1837 therefore would be the
Parish Church Records which can be seen at the Northants Record Offices
and some Northants Libraries and the Latter Day Saints Churches by
ordering the micro- films if they do not have them in their resources.

Sandy   

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Sunday 04 September 11 14:08 BST (UK)

Hi again.

The details from the Chelveston marriage are as below.

x means signs with their mark.

Chelveston Parish Church By Banns

No.36, 14 Oct 1825
Abraham Tight,x, otp, Bachelor & Mary Ann Driver,x, Spinster
Witnesses: William Driver,x, Martha Hale,x, Joseph Stirman   

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Sunday 04 September 11 14:40 BST (UK)

This is the marriage of Ephraim at Chelveston from the N.M.I
who you were not sure was a son of William.

Chelveston   
25 Dec 1838
Ephraim DRIVER of Higham Ferrers, bachelor, of full age, labourer, father Joseph, labourer to
Mary Ann STARLEY otp, spinster, age 20, father William, labourer

Sandy   

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Sunday 04 September 11 14:51 BST (UK)

This is more than likely Ephraim parents marriage from the N.M.I.

Raunds
24 Nov 1800
Joseph DRIVER of Cauldecot & Sarah WILBEY otp


Chelveston was/is also known as Chelveston cum Caldecote

So the baptism for Eprahim is at Chelveston as follows.

No. 44, 19 Oct 1817
Ephariam   s of Joseph & Sarah Driver, Labourer

siblings were
1. 3 Oct 1802, Mary d Jos’ph & Sar’h Driver. 2. 10 Jun 1804, William s of Jos’ph & Sarah Driver 
3.  18 Feb 1810, Phoebe d of Joseph & Sarah Driver

Sandy      

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Sunday 04 September 11 19:56 BST (UK)

Hi Sandy, that is wonderful, thank you very much for your help. I am quite new to all of this and didn't realise I couldn't get certificates. I now live in New Zealand so hunting parish records isn't really an option for me, unless I can find them online :-) so this is fantastic. Thank-you very much again.

I did think Ephraim was too old to be the son of William, so that is a mystery solved.

Thanks heaps
Sally

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Sunday 04 September 11 20:22 BST (UK)

Quote from: seahall on Sunday 04 September 11 13:30 BST (UK)

Hi to you both.

Welcome from me also katvonD.  :)

The Northants Marriage Indexes also has a marriage for Edward James
yet later than you mention katvonD .

Northampton St. Giles
19 Feb 1835
Edward JAMES of Ecton & Easter ROBINSON otp   

The marriages you seek are pre 1837 therefore would be the
Parish Church Records which can be seen at the Northants Record Offices
and some Northants Libraries and the Latter Day Saints Churches by
ordering the micro- films if they do not have them in their resources.

Sandy   

I guess it would be hard to prove, but I'm wondering if this is the marriage I seek given my relative Rachel was born in 1839. From census records I see they have 2 other girls (twins?) Sarah and Mary 1826, but I am thinking perhaps they were from a previous marriage esp as both parents would be 'older' by 1839 and that is quite  gap in child baring years. What do you think?

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 07:51 BST (UK)

Hi Sally.

I also think it is the Marriage you seek.

The Census of 1841 rounded ages hence 2 girls the same age.

Therefore ages could be 15-19 -15, 20-24 -20, 25-29 -25,
30-34 -30, 35-39 -35 etc.
They would be upto 10 years difference for older folk.

Sometimes men and woman did not dis-close that they were previously
married therefore a certificate would say Bachelor instead of Widower,
Spinster instead of Widow.

So due to the ages of Edward and Easter it is possible that one
or the other was previously married or Easter had illegitimate children
that took the name of James.

Needs looking into a bit more I think.

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 08:55 BST (UK)

Hi again Sally.

I have found Easter's baptism on the Northants Baptism Indexes.

The name Easter was also known as Esther hence

Ecton C of E
10 Apr 1796
Esther ROBINSON d of William & Mary, labourer

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 09:05 BST (UK)

Also on the Northants Marriage Indexes.

Ecton
14 Sep 1850
George CAMPION otp, widower, full age, shoemaker, father William, labourer to
Sarah JAMES otp, spinster, full age, father Edward, shoemaker

On the 1851 Census Sarah is noted as aged 29 making a possible birth 1822.

Sandy   

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Monday 05 September 11 09:28 BST (UK)

Quote from: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 08:55 BST (UK)

Hi again Sally.

I have found Easter's baptism on the Northants Baptism Indexes.

The name Easter was also known as Esther hence

Ecton C of E
10 Apr 1796
Esther ROBINSON d of William & Mary, labourer

Sandy

This is great, Esther Robinson daughter of William and Mary Robinson, and that age is the age I have for Esther 1796, so it's all slotting into place OK. I need to absorb your next post a little.

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Monday 05 September 11 09:55 BST (UK)

OK so, I think I understand this. If Esther Robinson married Edward James in 1835, as we think, she would be 39 years old. If she was still a Robinson when married that suggests she wasn't previously married? so if the 2 girls are hers they we illegitimate and took Edwards name. Or, Edward is a widow in 1835 and the 2 girls are his from his previous marriage? But it's fairly definite it's them though isn't it?

I wonder how unusual it was in those days to not marry until you are almost 40? Perhaps she was sick or something. I know her daughter Rachel had an illegitimate child and that Esther lived to be fairly old (80s from memory).

This last post is the older sister of Rachel and it fits cos of that rounding of age they did (that answers many a puzzle re ages :-)

So if Edward was a widow there should be another marriage record for him?

Awesome thank you for doing all this for me, I have been puzzling over this for months now :-)

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 18:03 BST (UK)

Well Sally I saw a problem and went to look at the original marriages
for Ecton and Great Billing.

As all the C of E are noted on the Northants Marriage Indexes
I decided to check out this one.

Great Billing C of E By Banns

Pg 14. No. 41
14 October 1828
Edward James, of Ecton, Widower, and Sarah Mayes, otp, Spinster
Both signed their names.
Witnesses: John James and Esther Robinson They both signed their names also.

So there was a previous marriage of which the Sarah and Mary on the 1841
Census were noted as Edward and Esther's children.

Sandy
 

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 18:07 BST (UK)

So then I looked at the 3rd marriage of Edward at

St Giles C of E BY Banns

Pg.13, No.37
19 Feb 1835
Edward James, of Ecton in the County, & Esther Robinson, otp

Both signed their names (Esther as Easter).
Witnesses: Robert ? & Mary Ann Robinson

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 18:25 BST (UK)

As it seems as though Sarah (Edward's 2nd wife) died in 1834 this
is more than likely her burial date 30 Jun 1834 aged 39 at Ecton.

To follow on from that here are Edward and Esther's burial info.

Pg. 85, No. 680
Edward James, Ecton, November 7th 1869 aged 81.

Pg. 93, No. 744
Esther James, Ecton, February 3rd 1876 aged 79.

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 18:29 BST (UK)

Further info I looked at Sally was the baptism of Rachel's son.

Ecton C of E

Pg. 89, No. 706
Novr 29th 1857
Andrew Frederic Benjamin to Rachel James, Ecton

And her marriage.

Ecton  C of E.

June 27th 1865
Pg. 66, No. 131
William Hyde, 23, Bachelor, Shoemaker, Ecton, father James, Labourer to
Rachel James, of full age, Spinster, Ecton, father Edward, Shoemaker
Both signed their names.
Witnesses: Edward James (X) and Sarah Campion (Rachel's sister).

Sandy

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 18:37 BST (UK)

Lastly I found the marriage of Sarah James to George.

Ecton C of E.

Pg. 35, No. 69
September 14th 1850
George Campion, Full age, Widower, Shoemaker, Ecton, father William, Labourer to
Sarah James, Full age, Spinster, Ecton, father Edward, Shoemaker
Both signed their names.
Witnesses: Joseph Smart, Lucy Smart (x)

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 18:50 BST (UK)

Now to finish this for now Sally.

I have the graves for Ecton Churchyard and note some of your family
in them.

I will try and make a list and then P.M. you.

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Monday 05 September 11 19:38 BST (UK)

Hey Sandy,

just woke up to find your messages. You are awesome :-) Thankyou very much indeed! This is fantastic news :-) and certainly confirms everything. I did know that Rachel's son was Andrew James, as he was in the William and Rachel Hyde, nee James, census records as Andrew James. I think that is a firm confirmation that this is our family and ends the mystery :-) Cant thank you enough for your help - I would never have found any of this by myself :-) Burial records would be great, I have some ancestor visiting to do on my next trip home :-)

Sally

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 19:42 BST (UK)

I have just looked through some baptisms for Ecton at home and
spotted this one.

Ecton C of E

Pg. 4, No. 29
12 Jun 1864
Rachel to Edward and Esther James, Ecton

In left hand column Adult.

If only Edward had baptised the other children at Ecton
or Great/Little Billing.

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Monday 05 September 11 19:52 BST (UK)

Quote from: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 19:42 BST (UK)

I have just looked through some baptisms for Ecton at home and
spotted this one.

Ecton C of E

Pg. 4, No. 29
12 Jun 1864
Rachel to Edward and Esther James, Ecton

In left hand column Adult.

If only Edward had baptised the other children.

Sandy

Yes indeed that would have been good if he had. Rachel was baptised as an adult, so I'm guessing they weren't religious? Or perhaps that was common to not be baptised.

I just realised he married 3 times and Esther only once. I still find that odd. Perhaps she was always secretly in love with him and waited for him lol. But clearly she always knew him as she was witness at his marriage to Sarah who died in 1834, they didn't waste much time after she died though, then had a huge long life together after that. Quite romantic really :-)

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Monday 05 September 11 20:03 BST (UK)

I couldn't agree more.  :)

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Tuesday 06 September 11 09:21 BST (UK)

Morning Sally.

As to Rachel's baptism it was usual to have been baptised to marry
in the C of E, therefore before her own marriage.

Saying that were are all the James family of yours baptising.  :)

You could ask Alan on my link below this posting as he has indexed
many baptisms for the whole county with Marilyn.

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Tuesday 06 September 11 09:46 BST (UK)

Thanks Sandy, I just sent him an email, fingers crossed :)

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Tuesday 06 September 11 23:22 BST (UK)

Hi again Sally.

Well done.  :)

I have just found a bastardy order for Rachel.

Wellingboro'
26 Oct 1857
Rachel JAMES reputed father William JAMES order made

Sandy 

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Tuesday 06 September 11 23:33 BST (UK)

And in case this person comes into your tree further back Sally.

At the Quarter Sessions 1835
Charlotte James of Ecton, M child born 11 Mar 1835, reputed father
William Horn of Moulton, order made.

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Wednesday 07 September 11 06:30 BST (UK)

Quote from: seahall on Tuesday 06 September 11 23:22 BST (UK)

Hi again Sally.

Well done.  :)

I have just found a bastardy order for Rachel.

Wellingboro'
26 Oct 1857
Rachel JAMES reputed father William JAMES order made

Sandy 

Hmmm that makes me a bit nervous, wonder who he was, hope not an evil uncle or something  :-\. She married a William (Hyde) you don't think they meant him really? Nah I don't think so.

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Wednesday 07 September 11 06:34 BST (UK)

Quote from: seahall on Tuesday 06 September 11 23:33 BST (UK)

And in case this person comes into your tree further back Sally.

At the Quarter Sessions 1835
Charlotte James of Ecton, M child born 11 Mar 1835, reputed father
William Horn of Moulton, order made.

Sandy

I haven't encountered a Charlotte yet. Wonder how she fits?

I got a negative reply from Alan,  he cant find anything. They were all born (apparently) in Ecton so it's a mystery why they wouldn't show up. Unless the first wife was from out of town and they lived somewhere else for a while, but I doubt this.

Sally :-)

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Tuesday 13 September 11 07:58 BST (UK)

Morning Sally.

As promised here are the graves I found at Ecton.

So many graves are illegible so they more than likely others but not readable.

1.

In
loving
memory of
ANDREW FREDERICK
THE BELOVED HUSBAND OF
SARAH JAMES
DIED JULY 11TH 1894
AGED 36 YEARS

MARTHA DAUGHTER OF THE ABOVE
WHO DIED IN HER INFANCY

DEAR IS THE SPOT WHERE CHRISTIANS SLEEP
AND SWEET THE STRAINS WHICH ANGELS POUR
O, WHY SHOULD WE IN ANGUISH WEEP
THEY ARE NOT LOST BUT GONE BEFORE

ALSO THE ABOVE
SARAH JAMES
DIED SEPT 26TH 1928
AGED 86 YEARS

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Tuesday 13 September 11 08:36 BST (UK)

Wow, thanks Sandy, thats lovely and so true :-)

Thankyou for all the help you have given me it's been fantastic :)

Sally

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Friday 16 September 11 08:54 BST (UK)

Not sure if you want/have these marriage details Sally but will 
list in case another rellie comes along also.

Ecton P.C. after Banns

Pg. 109, No. 218
July 29th 1888
Thomas Kemp Jolley, 27, Bachelor, Labourer, Ecton, father George, Labourer to
Sarah Beatrice Hyde, 21, Spinster, Ecton, father William, Parish Clerk

Both signed their names.
Witnesses: Andrew Frederick James and  Elizabeth Hyde

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: seahall on Friday 16 September 11 08:58 BST (UK)

Ecton P.C. After Banns

Pg. 114, No. 227

Dec 25 1890
Joseph Mawby, 20, Bachelor, Labourer, Hackleton, father John, Shepherd to
Elizabeth Hyde, 19, Spinster, Ecton, father William, Labourer & Parish Clerk

Both signed their names.
Witnesses: William Hyde Junior and  Kezia Mawby

Sandy

Title: Re: Marriage dates and maiden names - Driver and James
Post by: salhyde on Friday 16 September 11 09:18 BST (UK)

Thanks Sandy the first rings bells for me :) will check them out :-)