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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: fuseman on Saturday 03 September 11 22:08 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone, I'm looking for a little help, I have just traced my Great Grandmother who was born in Ireland through the 1901 census, I now wish to go back to find her roots, the problem is the census says she was born in "LOAMS" Ireland, but I can't find any trace of this place, anyone any ideas.. Thanks
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Hi...
Whats your great grandmothers name and year that she was born...and possibly parents names? Also, which census are you looking at, and where?
Annie
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Hello fuseman and welcome to rootschat,
1901 search gives a Cecilia Marlow born c 1858 living in Walsall. Is that her?
Looking at the birthplace it looks like Toums/Toams (fist letter compares with another' T' on page).
This made me think it was Tuam (County Galway).
I can't find a marriage for the Marlows but there is a Celia Laughton (could be Faughton :-\) in 1881 born Tuam living in Walsall.
Could this be her?
heywood
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Hi again, yes she was Cecilia Marlow and was I believe married to Edward Marlow who lived in Walsall, I couldn't find a marriage either. My Grandmother was also listed in the 1901 census aged 15 (Emma) living at the same address. I have no idea if the marriage took place in Walsall or Ireland all I can remember from my fathers stories was that she was Irish. Now I do have Emma's birth certificate which states that her mother was Celia Marlow formally Fahy, her mark on the certificate was an X so taking this into account and the fact she is down named as Celia leaves me to think that she may have made some inaccuracies in the records due to not being not able to write as I have also drawn a blank finding a birth of a Cecilia or Celia Fahy or Fay.
From research I have carried out on ancestry I think but not 100% sure that her mother was named Mary Elizabeth Gleason. b, abt 1835 also in LOAMS d. 1923 and her father was Martin Francis Fay b. abt 1830 also in LOAMS d. 1921. Thanks
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The Celia ?aughton in 1881 is listed as married and a sister in law to Lawrence Collins - can't find him in later censuses.
I don't quite understand re the Fahys in 'Loams' when you said you can't ind the place ???
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I also thought of Tuam when I looked at it too.
I see that mum Cecilia died in 1906 and daughter Cecilia married in 1908.
Marriages usually take place where the girl comes from,so I wonder if they married in Ireland?
The oldest daughter was Emma born Walsall June 1886 ref 6b page 736,you could always get her birth cert to confirm mum's maiden name.
Carol
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OOps sorry I missed the bit on your earlier posting that said you already knew her maiden name.
How about this birth- only Family Search. I know she appears older on the 1901 census but is listed as 44 when she died in 1906.
Cecilia Fahy, Birth in district of Tuam in 1866
Volume Number, 19
Page Number, 596
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There is a public family tree on Ancestry.com which shows a Emma Marlow (my Grandmother) I know its the correct tree as my father is also listed in the same tree, the person who made the tree states that Cecelia Marlow (my Great Grandmother) was born in LOAMS Ireland, a place I can't find if in fact it even exists, looking at the 1901 census I found the Marlow family living in Penkridge St Walsall, this is correct as my father and I were also born in Walsall, this census also shows Cecilia being born in LOAMS Ireland however I get the impression that Cecelia was unable to read and write so this place called LOAMS could have been the interpretation of who made the record ? I have my Grandmothers birth certificate, the birth was registered by Cecilia who signed it with an X (hence my reason for believing she couldn't write) on the birth certificate she called herself Celia Marlow with her maiden name being Fahy, but again this could be an interpretation of who made the record. so if LOAMS is in fact a place in Ireland then I would be looking for a Celia or Cecelia Fahy born there in abt 1858 and then moved to Walsall. In the same family tree that I found its author spelt the name Fahy as Fay? so not sure which is correct, hope this makes it a little clearer. From what you said earlier that the place could be Tuam (Tuaim) I believe this is pronounced "Choo am" This is quite possible with a strong Irish accent "choo am" and "Loam" sound very alike so perhaps that's the next place to research.. Thanks for your help.
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Whoever put the tree on Ancestry could have easily taken that census info as gospel and just copied out what the transcriber thought it said.
With genealogy you have to find every piece of evidence for yourself,and never trust what others have put until you have seen it with your own eyes.
You will find lots of threads about this on Rootschat,some people have even deliberately put a couple of wrong bits of info on their tress and watched others copy it on to theirs.
I have been doing my tree for nearly 20 years now and only recently had a major breakthrough when more parish records became available online,so don't despair if you can't find it yet,it may appear online later.
Carol
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You need to be careful as both Cecilia and Fahy would be common names in the West of Ireland. Here's the full details of the 1866 Tuam birth, not matching your sketchy possible name for the mother:
Name: Cecelia Fahy
Birth date: 21 Nov 1866
Birthplace: Co. Galway
Parents : Edward Fahy & Margaret O Dea
Ref: V 19 -2 / P 596
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I can only reiterate what Carol says.
If you look at the actual census, the 'T' is written in a cursive manner- compare it with 'T' for Thomas elsewhere on the page. The transcriber has then interpreted it as 'L'.
The trees have no evidence for the Fay or Fahy name- other than perhaps the birth certificate you mention but certainly nothing to show on the trees to support the parents.
You could write to the owner of the tree to ask re Martin and Elizabeth.
If you are able to do so, it may be worth looking at the other children's birth or baptism details to compare mother's name.
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Thanks all for the info, I agree with you Carol regarding the false leads however up to now the info I found in this public tree was all that I could find relating to my GG Mothers birth even though I knew it to be incorrect, I'm finding it very difficult to locate any Irish records on the websites I'm using, they must be the incorrect ones?. Someone else had copied this same info into a tree and then got a totally different persons record for death which gave my GG Mother an age at death of 99 (which would have meant I could have asked her these questions personally) also the tree details didn't fit with the info on her birth cert. My problem was the place of birth "Loams" Ireland, from the answers to this post I now presume that no such place exists or ever existed in Ireland, and it looks like Taum is possibly the place I should be looking. The info posted by johnjensen is looking good for the birth, Cecilias parents details that I gave earlier could be a complete red herring having came from the same source as that claiming my GG Mother was 99 at death. I recall reading that a lot of Irish records were lost in a fire some years back could this be the reason I'm struggling to find records on both Ancestry and findmypast. Thanks
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Ancestry and FindMyPast dont have many Irish records, so there's not much point looking there.
All the civil BMD records survived, and so do all the RC parish records. It was older census returns and many Church of Ireland records that were destroyed in the Public Records Office fire during the civil war.
Shane
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Hi, Emma Marlow who was Cecilia's eldest daughter obtained a copy of her own birth cert in 1947 following the death of her husband
john Henry, she must have obtained it to claim widows pension or something, this is were the name Fahy came from, Cecilia registered the birth in Walsall Staffordshire herself and signed the cert with an X also if you look at the 1901 census the column which is far right and asks if a person is Deaf/Dumb a Lunatic etc also shows a X for Cecilia, so putting 2 and 2 together I'm thinking she can't read or write or maybe even worse I'm yet to find out. If her educational skills are shall we say low to none existant then any info she gave to the registrar would be recorded in there interpretation, her Cristian name is recorded as Celia on the cert and not the full Cecilia, It would be interesting to see if Cecilia had any siblings as the surname Fahy comes up quite often for Walsall which could mean she had other family members in the area.
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Fuseman
The X in the far right box on the census was the enumerators way of recording those born outside the country/county,and as she was born in Ireland he marked it such. He could then scan through the pages quickly to count how many 'outsiders' he had recorded.
Also if she spoke with an Irish accent,the registrar may not have understood her and wrote Celia if that's what he thought she'd said.As you say she couldn't read,so she wouldn't have known if it was right or wrong.
Carol
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The name Cecilia can also be found as Celia/Selina/Sabina there are variations.
I am trying to find anything about the Celia in 1881 with the Collins family. It is perhaps coincidence but as I can't find anything about the Collinses in later censuses, it isn't too good.
She is married so that could account for there not being a marriage between Edward and Cecilia.
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Going back to my interest in Celia ?aughton in 1881.
There is a marriage 1877 Walsall with possible spouses:
Cecilia Foy
William Naughten
The other spouses on the page are together in 1881.
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Ah Heywood,you may have something there....
Foy/Fahy (said with an Irish accent!)
If you look at the 1901 page you will see there are a lot of Irish people there,so it's not unlikely that there will be others locally in Walsall with the Fahy surname.
Carol
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The man Cecilia was living with was Edward Marlow, Cecilia also used the surname of Marlow, but I don't expect this proves they were actually married, I have drawn a total blank on a marriage. And yes Carol8353 the surname Fahy comes up very often in Walsalls birth records around the dates I've Searched, also the name Foy is there. Just had another look at Emma's birth cert (Cecilia's eldest daughter) and I can see she was born in Green Lane Walsall, which is within a stones throw of the address shown for Cecilia in the 1901 census as Penkridge St, Green Ln is in the same parish of St Peters, this may have been the place a wedding took place?. St Peters is still in use so I will contact the local vicar to see if they still have any records for around that time, this may reveal something.
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I think it would be good to get a copy of that marriage certificate of Cecelia Foy. You would get a father's name and the witnesses may also provide clues. If nothing else, it may eliminate this Cecelia.
If she was already married, that would be a reason for not being able to marry Edward Marlow.
Do you know if the children were brought up Catholic?
Cecilia's year of birth is shown as 1856 and 1858.
Celia Laughton's is 1859.
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From research I have carried out on ancestry I think but not 100% sure that her mother was named Mary Elizabeth Gleason. b, abt 1835 also in LOAMS d. 1923 and her father was Martin Francis Fay b. abt 1830 also in LOAMS d. 1921. Thanks
It looks as though this information may have derived from 1881 RG11 2824 / 61 / 11
Martin and Mary Fahy with several children including Cealia born 1874 and a mother in law Mary Glesson.
There is a Foy family at 1881 RG11 2826 / 11 / 15
Martin Foy and Ellen Foy from 'Chume' - they look to be married in Penkridge in 1866
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Looking at Rootsireland.ie there is an Ceceilia Fahy born 1899 in Galway, and a Cecily Fahy 1904 they were the only two on a country wide search of Fahy's that came close couldn't find one in or around 1858 but than the Tuam records don't appear to be there going by the list of parish's available for Galway
On the National Archives Census (Ireland) there is a Martin Fahy in Dooros Drummin Galway age 70
Wife Lizzie 60
Mary Ann daughter 30
Kate daughter 24
Martin son 23
by 1911
Lizzie has age 14 years but that not unusual
Mary Ann is gone but they now have a Margaret.
They had 8 children 7 still living so it is possible they could by Cecelia's parents but Drummin is a good hours drive from Tuam
BTW they can all read and write.
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Hi Sinann and thanks for the info.
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The Foy family who were married in Penkridge and then in Walsall are also listed as Fay in other censuses.
At the risk of repeating myself ::) I would check that Foy/Naughten marriage.
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I have looked at the william noughten and cecilia foy marriage in 1877 at walsall but the marriage record is all I can find there is no record of the family anywere in the 1881 or 1891 census I did find a death record for a william noughten in walsall but thats about all, so will need to dig a little deeper with that one
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She looks to be in 1881 census as I already gave you with her brother in law Lawrence Collins.
What I am trying to establish is of course, is if she is your Cecilia which is difficult as you have little to go on to find your Cecilia.
I was thinking that if you got the marriage details - probably would have to be by buying a certificate unless you could find the church marriage, you would get that Cecilia's, father's name and also any witness names who may be other clues.
There could possibly be a connection, as you have said already, to other Foy/Fay/Fahy/Fahey families in Walsall. There is the Martin Foy/Fay one who also give Tuam as p o b.
If you are able to go to a local library, there may be Catholic and other church records you could check.
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Looked at the 1881 census record for Lawrence Collins who is showed as a widower, Celia Laughton would have been Lawrence's wifes sister I would think?, then looked at the 1871 census and found Lawrence Collins listed as Susanna Collias (not far out realy) still living in Walsall with his wife Julia Collins (if reading correct) However I can't find a record of her death or a marriage for her and Lawrence maybe they were married in Ireland? If Julia's maiden name was Foy then this could be the link to the Cecilia Foy who married William Naughton in Walsall in 1877 and hence she could be the Cecilia I'm looking for. Need to dig a little deeper in the Irish records for Julia's marriage to Lawrence.
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That looks good.
There is a death for Julia Colleran 1879- Walsall and nothing similar in 1871 so that is a possibility.
The year of birth fits - 1849. Julia Collins is born 1848 in 1871.
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I think I have Cecilias mother and Cecilia in the 1871 census, her mother is Mary Foy dob 1824 born in Galway no mention of the father. Also a possibility that Mary died in 1878 in Wolstanton Staffordshire.
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Hello again,
that sounds good. :) Where are they? I haven't found them.
I was looking at wrong census- sorry I have them now ::)
heywood