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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cumbrian Nige on Saturday 03 September 11 20:34 BST (UK)
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Can a SKS help, please?
I'm having difficulty trying to trace a Nicholls (2 x 'l') family in London on the 1901C. There should be Mary Jane, as head, widow aged abt 45/46 born in Bethnal Green together with children Florence Rose, aged 20; William Percy, aged abt 19, Walter aged abt 16 and Theresa May, aged abt 14. The childern were born in either Walthamstow or Bow
Many thanks
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Hello and welcome to rootschat :)
They are here 1901 RG13 / 1636 / 66 / 15
George Lane, 3 The Pavement Woodford
Mary J Nicholls 45 yrs Manageress cigar business b Mile End
Florence R 20 yrs Music Teacher b Mile End
Percy W 19 yrs Junior Clerk Telegraph operator b Walthamstow
Walter 16 yrs Junior Clerk Hospital Fund b Walthamstow
Theresa M 14 yrs b Walthamstow
best wishes
heywood
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Thats them. Many thanks. I'm been searching for ages for them.
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Hi Nige
Welcome to London and Middlesex ;D
Is your request now complete?
if so, please have a quick look here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,403275.msg2921122.html#msg2921122
Thanks
Dawn
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These are my Family too :D Mary Jane was my GGGrandmother ;D
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Hi diane
Cumbrian Nige hasn't been online here since July 2012 but should receive email notifications that we have posted and hopefully come back soon.
Dawn
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Ooh, I hope he does! I only found this thread by accident doing a 'Google' search!
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Apologises. I set aside my genealogy time whilst I finished my studies, moved, got a job etc etc. Just getting back to setting some time aside to re-start where i left off.
This Nichols family are part of my distant direct relatives and I recall that I posted to try to seek some help on who the parents of Mary J might have been.
I guess this might be a good place to re-start my genealogy time.
Any info to any links would be much appreciated
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Welcome back then! I haven't got too far with Mary Jane because I've been concentrating on my Dads side, but, if I've got the correct Marriage Certificate (19/01/1878) I believe her Father was Benjamin Cooper, a Merchant Captain. The certificate looks as if its witnessed by William Benjamin Cooper and Ellen Cooper but not sure if they are her Parents or perhaps Siblings. I can't find her on any Census using her Maiden name and Stepney/Bow as a place of Birth - the first one I've found is for 1881 when she is married to William Nicholls with a Daughter, Florence (my GGrandmother)
How are you related?
Perhaps an expert out there can help with earlier records?!
Thanks
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Would love to find any records for Benjamim, possibly Wiliam Benjamin Cooper who gave his occupation as Merchant Captain on his Daughters Marriage Certificate in 1878. She was Mary Jane Cooper b about 1855/56
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Hi Diane,
there are several baptisms in Stepney for children of William Benjamin and Mary Jane Cooper
St Thomas Stepney
William Benjamin Cooper 22 Dec 1852- father Benjamin, Tailor (possibly Sailor)
William Benjamin Cooper 10 Apr 1853 - father Benjamin William Henney Cooper - Mariner (but same address as previous)
Mary Jane Cooper 30 Apr 1855 - father William Benjamin Harvey Cooper, Mariner
Ellen Cooper 10 Apr 1859 - father Benjamin Wm Harney Cooper, Sailor
St Mary Stepney
Rosina Cooper 30 Nov 1862 - father Benjamin William Harvey Cooper,Mariner
Caroline Cooper 4 Dec 1864- father Benjamin William Harvey Cooper, Mariner
regards
heywood
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1861 278/9/17
29 Johnson Street St George in the East
Mary S Cooper 34 yrs head married Mariner's wife b Devon Clovelly
Wm B Cooper 8 yrs b St George
M S Cooper 5 yrs b St George
Ellen Cooper 2 yrs b St George
1871 1635/ 178/ 2
ellen and Rosina Cooper are possibly inmates in the Orphan Asylum for the Children of Deceased British Merchant Seamen in West Ham/Leyton
1871 556/ 156/ 37
2 Hawkins Street Mile End Old Town
Mary J Cooper head widow 44 yrs General Dealer b Clovelly
William B Cooper 18 yrs Lodger Clerk
Mary J Cooper 15 yrs
Caroline Cooper 6 yrs
Elizth Cooper 4 yrs
children all born Stepney
1881 477/7/ 8
16 King John Street Mile End O T
Mary Jane Cooper 55 yrs
Ellen Cooper 22 yrs
Elizabeth Cooper 14 yrs
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Thanks Heywood for all this lovely info which I'm trying to get to grips with (long day=Tired!)
The census info looks really hopeful - am I right in thinking then that Mary Janes Mother was also called Mary Jane and that her Siblings William and Ellen were the witnesses at her Marriage or am I on the wrong track?! I've never known if she had any Siblings, only that she had 4 Children.
In 1901 she was managing a Cigar Shop of her Brother in Laws and in 1911 (a Widow) a General Provisions Store. ;)
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Hi,
yes it looks as though you are on the right track.
Free BMD marriage:
Benjamin William Harvey Cooper and Mary Jane Burnaid
June 1852 St George in the East Vol 1c pg 850
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Fantastic, thanks! Lots of useful info as usual ;)
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Hi Heywood. On the Baptism info that you've found, I'm a bit confused by the two William Benjamin Coopers in 1852 & 1853. We're they living at the same address?!
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Hi Heywood. On the Baptism info that you've found, I'm a bit confused by the two William Benjamin Coopers in 1852 & 1853. We're they living at the same address?!
Yes they were - 14 White Horse Place
1) born and baptised December 1852
2) baptised April 10th 1853
Both these would fit with a birth registered in Stepney, March quarter 1853
At first, I thought it was a child who died, followed by a second child with the same name but it must be the same child :-\
It's odd being the same church and same minister.
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So, the same Child, baptised twice? That's strange isn't it?!
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It looks to be so and it is odd and I don't suppose we will ever know why!
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Could it be that he was Baptised at Birth because he was not executed to live, then Baptised again later?! Just a thought...
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Yes, I wondered that too but it is the same minister and baptism should be a once only. It is in the registers but it may have been a more public celebration as you say and maybe not an actual baptism.
I wonder if dad wasn't available and the second one was when he was home :-\ - especially as the second one has dad's full name.
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Yes, good thought, and presumably the 'Henney' is Harvey?
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...did you notice that on Williams First Baptism record on 22/12/1853 - there was a note to the left of the Baptism date that said 'born 19th December, 1853? So, only a few days old :)
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I can't find any Birth/Census/Death records for Benjamin William Harvey Cooper :(
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Hi. I think William Nicholls (the father) married a Frances - but I can't find my records to confirm this. William (the son) married Mary J Cooper. Their daughter, Theresa May married Matthew James Butterfield, who's son Matthew Bernard was my maternal grandfather.
I'll dig through my files during the next few days and see if I can mind the marriage details of William and Frances
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Are you by any chance related to Betty or Anne Butterfield?!
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Yep. Betty was my mother
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Oh wow! This is amazing! She and Anne were my Mum & Dads Bridesmaids!! Do you use Ancestry.com?
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I think I've seen some piccies of that wedding. I've used Ancestry but don't currently have a subscription
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That's a shame - I would love to share my Tree! Are we OK to give email addresses?
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I was always hoping I'd be able to find relatives of Betty and Anne :)
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..I don't have Williams Father as William Nicholls - I have him as Joseph married to Elizabeth?
I have a photo of Eric Butterfields War Grave - he died in 1944 in Italy, aged just 24.
My Grandma, Doris Nicholls was born illegitimately in 1902 and was brought up thinking that her Grandma (Mary Jane Cooper) was her Mother, and that her Mother (Florence) was her Sister! She didn't find out the truth until just before her Marriage to my Grandad. Would love to be able to add you to my Tree now ;D
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Re: the earlier posting on the Marriage record on freebmd by Heywood, could the entry in freebmd be for 'Mary Jane Burnard' rather than 'Burnaid'?
The Devon site on Rootschat has a link to baptism records for Clovelly, in which 'burnaid' isn't listed but 'burnard' is. If so, there is a baptism reference for a Mary Jane on 26th May 1826, which would be about the right year of birth, with parents given as William and Jane. In turn there is a marriage reference for a William Burnard to a Jane Jeffery on 19th Jan 1815, which could be a connection.
Maybe this is a link to the Mary Jane listed on the 1861C at 29 Johnson St, St George in the East. Maybe!
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Hi again,
That will be the transcription re the name.
Marriage: 13 April 1852 Christ Church St George in the East
Benjamin William Harvey Cooper Mariner - father William Cooper, farmer
Mary Jane Burnaid father William Burnaid, shoemaker
Both these look like 'aid' but her signature could be 'ard'
Heywood
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Yes, sorry, I'd already discovered the Surname was Burnard but forgot to mention. Found info using the Clovelly link on Genuki. Had seen that Marriage too. Benjamin William Harvey Cooper still a bit of a Mystery but I've found a Baptism record using Family Search for a Benjamin Williams Cooper which I think could be him as date and location are good. Gives Father as William, which is correct & mother Jane Johanna. Only found this last night!
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That may not be your man :-\
1838 Marriage of Benjamin William Cooper, Sweep to Rosannah Wilkins with father William, a shoemaker. A witness is Jane Johanna Cooper.
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Ah, so still a mystery Man then :/ >:(
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Diane, Just had confirmation that Doreen (Nicholls nee Williams?) was bridesmaid at the marriage of Eva Mellish and Matthew Bernard Butterfield. She must have been a cousin to Matthew Bernard. Check hotmail!
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I will Nige!
By the way, my Mum is Doreen Walker nee Williams and her Mum was Doris Irene Williams nee nee Nicholls :)
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..it was my Grandma, Doris Irene Nicholls that was Matthews Cousin :)
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So, I understand and there are piccies to prove it!!!
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Ooh, I'll watch out for your email then :)
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My Mum would have been 6 when she was their Bridesmaid in 1935 :)
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Have you any photos of my Mum as a bridesmaid Nige? I don't think my Mum does. I've been looking out for your email :)
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Hi,
I cant work out how to send an email. I've used hotmail but clearly tht doesn't work. Short of the moderators here agreeing to post an adress, I cant work out how to contact you.
And yes, a piccie is available
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Did you get the private message I sent you with my email address Nige?
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Nope ....
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..just sent another. Said it sent successfully ;)
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Nothing received. I'm not even showing in the BT phone book for Carlisle!