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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: kim ter-horst on Thursday 05 May 05 08:57 BST (UK)
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HI all
I have become aware of the fact that nearly everyone I talk to about my family's "related to royalty" story is able to come back with their own family's version. We're meant to be descended from the duke of bedford - his daughter supposedly ran away with her music teacher. Although, I have the marriage certificate and the groom was illiterate which I find unlikely in a music teacher. (shes the one who later killed herself in an asylum so she might have been the most reliable source).
So that's our story - what's your "related to royalty" story?
Where so they come from? How do myths like this get started? Are our ancestors all bold faced liars or are there seeds of truth - has anyone uncovered the truths in their own myths?
royally yours
kim
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My lot seem to have been 'common as muck' from the year dot - no one even remotely connected to royalty, aristocracy or whatever.
I read somewhere that statistically speaking just about everyone in England has to be descended from William the Conqueror. I think my ancestors probably cleaned up after his horse.
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One branch of my family came to New Zealand from Nova Scotia and a pretty reputable source has traced that family back to very early settlers of Massachusetts, circa Mayflower era. No great claims made in this book ...
However I find that, given the enthusiasm of US genealogists, it is very easy to find somewhere on the web someone amongst all those names (usually a wife) who has been traced back to just about every royal family in Europe. I take it all with a huge grain of salt and tend to lose interest once it all moves into the ridiculous world of speculation. Who actually cares? It's the people you can feel a real connection to who count.
I do have one terrific connection I am very pleased about, though. Not exactly royalty, but a good story.
My gx4 grandfather was a convict transported to Australia in 1790. (I read the actual transcript of his 'trial' on the Old Bailey site - a fantastic site if you, too, are one of the criminal classes.) His grandaughter, sister of my g-grandfather, married Ivo Bligh, the captain of the English cricket team to whom the original Ashes were first given. She subsequently became the Countess of Darnley and was for a time the official 'Keeper of the Ashes' - they were given to the MCC after her death.
The bit I enjoy most is that I looked her up in De Bretts, where she was said to be 'a niece of Morphy, the chess player'. This is total nonsense - someone, somewhere along the way, was keen to see that it didn't get out that she was the grandaughter of a transported criminal!
A lovely blend of fame and infamy ...
Ros
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Hi,
Welcome to the discussion !
why not add your stories here: Are you related to Royalty
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,3318.0.html
and don't forget to read this thread, too ;D
Blue Blood: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,10725.0.html
Enjoy :)
Bob
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Lovely story about Florence Morphy and you are quite correct - she was no relation to Paul Morphy at all. His brother Edward lived in the States all his life. She was, of course, the daughter of Stephen Morphy who came to Australia from Killarney. But being even vaguely related to Ivo Bligh is wondeful.
Did you ever find out whether he was, in turn, any relative of Captain Bligh as that would give you another Australian antique connection? 8)
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Hi Hackstaple,
Yes, I did investigate the Paul Morphy story quite closely - and after reading all about him I was quite sorry to find there was no connection! I forget the exact details now, but his family was quite prominent in Louisiana politics and there was a suggestion they had somehow come through Spain? the Caribbean? - as I say, I'm a bit vague now.
The source I read said his family had changed their name from Murphy to Morphy, which I always imagined my family must have done, but so far I have only found Morphys. I had also imagined that the only reason for three of my family's brothers to emigrate to Australia was that they were impoverished peasants, but this turns out not to be true as well - the family was reasonably affluent and it remains a bit of a mystery.
Yes, he was John Stephen Morphy and - apropos of the topic heading - through his mother Charlotte Galway you can find web stuff tracing the line back to Brian Boru.
That is all quite fun, but a bit meaningless ...
I'm intrigued by the idea of Captain Bligh being there somewhere, but any connection is only by a distant marriage and there are so many other names to pursue!
Glad you liked the Ashes story!
Ros
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Hi
I had thought that the father of Harry Sparrow Bence Roe (born 1847 in Suffolk)would never been found as there was a blank on his birth certificate and his mother was unmarried. But I always thought that the middle names must mean something as Sparrow and Bence are very unusual and there is no trace of those names on the mother's side. On his marriage certificate the father was named as Henry Bence Roe.
Then I discoved Bence Sparrow, a rector from Beccles. The Rev Sparrow inherited the Bence fortune in 1804 and out of gratitude changed his name to Bence Bence. He had a son called Henry. Henry was christened Henry Bence Sparrow and after 1804 was known as Henry Bence Bence!
Confused? Yes, me too. However I did some research into the family and find lots of well-known names. Two of the Bence/Sparrows married daughters of the Earl of Gosford. One Sparrow married the grandson of Capability Brown. The wife of Robert Sparrow acted as go-between between the Duke of Wellington and his wife to be.
Also another one, wrote a biography of Faraday, a personal friend. He was also a doctor after whom something medical was named (something to do with blood, I think) and Charles Darwin was one of his patients.
But I can't link all this to my tree unless I can prove Harry Sparrow Bence Roe's parentage. Very frustrating!!
Sue
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HI,
According to family folklore, my great grandmother was a 'Scottish Princess' who ran away with an English signwriter. They moved throughout England following his job, till she got sick and tired of it and said she was staying put, which happend to be in Kidderminster in Worcestershire.
His name was F John Cooper (who was a signwriter) and her names was Lavinia, but I havn;t been able to trace her any further back to verify my inheritance!
Adrian
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I am reliably informed by an aunt that Ann Griffiths the Welsh hymn writer is a great aunt, or great great aunt or something. Now to a Welshman that would beat being related to a royal by a long way.
Sadly, having traced all my lines back before her time, and traced all her parent's descendants, I can find no connection - except for one of my ancestors who claims to have been born in England but is a Welsh speaker and has the same name as one of Ann Griffiths missing relatives who disappeared after killing someone.
Ah well, I'll just live with the legend. It's more fun.
Lyndon
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Hi I am related to all the British royals and most of European ones too, also some Saints that were Kings and Queens of Scotland, banished, beheaded whatever. I think most people are, they may not have searched enough to have found the exact connection; all you need is a Campbell, Hamilton, Gordon, Stewart or such ancestor, unless you are German like the current British royality stems from, then you will need to be a : Hanover-Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg -
von Hessen und bei Rhein......, (then quickly change your name to Windsor.) I have easily found over 20 blood lines to those heir apparents too...mostly from their beautiful mother's side.
I am not holding my breath, for invites and visitations to my ancestral homes from my cousin Queen EII.
I wanted to say, that my 5th great grandfather Duncan Campbell was responsible for getting a lot of convicts to Sydney during the time your 4th grt was sent there. Firstly he would take convicts to Virginia, then after the 1776 blow out..sent them to Sydney. If you or readers are interested in this sort of research. The on line story "Blackheath Connection" is fascinating. Your 4th great may have been on his vessel "Justicia" for instance, you could be sent away for just about anything, not paying a bill, tax, you did not have to be a murderer.
Duncan Campbell's niece married Adm Sir William Bligh... and thus they are my Bligh cousins. I am looking for living Blighs and Adm Bligh's blood connection to the Earls of Darnley. Incase anyone is out there with information, such as yourself. The 4th Earl and my grtxxxx uncle were executors of his will and I believe the Earl to have been a relation consequently. So I am also wondering if this is your grandmother Mary Stoyte, daughter of John of Westmeath; or Elizabeth Brownlow, daughter of William of Lurgan? I hope to talk to you further about this.
DR
My gx4 grandfather was a convict transported to Australia in 1790. (I read the actual transcript of his 'trial' on the Old Bailey site - a fantastic site if you, too, are one of the criminal classes.) His grandaughter, sister of my g-grandfather, married Ivo Bligh, the captain of the English cricket team to whom the original Ashes were first given. She subsequently became the Countess of Darnley and was for a time the official 'Keeper of the Ashes' - they were given to the MCC after her death.
The bit I enjoy most is that I looked her up in De Bretts, where she was said to be 'a niece of Morphy, the chess player'. This is total nonsense - someone, somewhere along the way, was keen to see that it didn't get out that she was the grandaughter of a transported criminal!
A lovely blend of fame and infamy ...
Ros
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My grandfathers surname was,King and my grandmothers maiden name was, England. Does that count?
gjil
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You could be related to my KING, Earls of Kingston or Sir George England, Thus Anne England and then indirectly to my HOSTE of Norfolk, ie Adm Sir William Hoste also the Walpoles and Duke of Norfolk...
Get back to me if you have researched these people.
DR
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DR,
No,I haven't got that far with my research. My gr grandmother was Susan King, she never married, so my grandfather had her surname, father unknown. My gr grandfather was a William England from County Mayo??
gjil
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One of my ancestors supposedly burnt down a castle. Does that count?
Kathleen
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Hi again, the Kings I have are in co. Dublin and Cork and had titles of Viscounts Kingsborough and Baron Kingston...
I am not sure of how far off co. Mayo would be from there...one William King was styled Hon. but I do not know of any known children from him...If you investigate those titled peoples descendants you may come up with a connection. Other Irish I have close relations with are Crozier, Acheson, Johnston, MaGill, Meade in the family. The doomed explored Capt Francis R M Crozier of Bambridge was 1st cousins to my 6th great grandfather Colin Crozier. I am looking for relatives connected to him.
My Achesons became Earls of Gosford and lost touch or died off I am not sure... our connection being 3rd Bt Acheson. I have distant Wyse, but I must leave that family alone for now.
DR
DR,
No,I haven't got that far with my research. My gr grandmother was Susan King, she never married, so my grandfather had her surname, father unknown. My gr grandfather was a William England from County Mayo??
gjil
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I read somewhere that statistically speaking just about everyone in England has to be descended from William the Conqueror. I think my ancestors probably cleaned up after his horse.
;D ;D ;D
and mine may have emptied his bins...
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Always interesting to find out how William the C. connects to your family, and if once, usually many times over. And to have blind faith in Heralds and hope families told the truth.
William the C. is my 26 great grandfather a few times over...(keep in mind every one has 100's of 26 great grandfathers to pick from)...his wife Matilda of Flandre, my 26 great grandmother.
His son Henry I married the daughter of Malcolm III of Canmore who's mother is known as St Margaret "the exile" and who's brother was King (and Saint) David of Scotland also a direct grandparent.
Everyone comes from somewhere and this batch of British
from Burgundy, Hungry, Netherlands, Luxembourg.
It is always good to find a Saint or Greco-Roman God in your tree top, holding a wheel / or golden apple, for instance.
DR
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Hi DR
Have a look further back on this post and you will see that two people in my Sparrow/Bence tree married daughters of different Earls of Gosford. So I have been collecting information on the Achesons and things get very complicated as most of them are called Archibald!
Unfortunately I still have no concrete evidence to connect to these people as my great great grandfather parentage is still a theory.
Maybe one day.....
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This Newbie:
is not sure how to look further back, but I will try. I would very much like to here about your Acheson's...as there children are cousins and I am 100 % sure.
I have a Mary, and Robert Sparrowof Worlingham Hall, Suffolk and a Millicent Sparrow caught up with a Duke of Mancester. I would like to work on it, if you are interested in filling me in.
DR
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I was interested to read about the connection to Paul Morphy. His brother, Edward, is my great grandfather. And yes, their original MURPHY name became MORPHY when they settled in Spain.
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A very distant relation(still to prove the connection) was the first man to be hung in private in England Thomas Wells August 1868 at maidstone prison. Not exactly royalty but a good bit of scandal to bring out over dinnerconversation
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The best I've been able to do is look at surnames I have and see if there's a connection further back, so it's not 100% certain. I have Scholey on my tree, which supposedly comes from King Harold's brother's son, Skuli. There's also Blount on my mum's side, and there was a Robert de Blount (or something) who came over with William The Conqueror.
Andrew