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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Huntingdonshire => England => Huntingdonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mrshoggy on Friday 02 September 11 12:06 BST (UK)

Title: Samuel Sykes
Post by: mrshoggy on Friday 02 September 11 12:06 BST (UK)
Hi List,
Am new to this, so hope I don't treat on any toes.  Am looking for details of a Samuel SYkes born in 1832/33 in Brampton, Huntingdonshire.   He was a Parkhurst Boy who was sent to VDL for "rehabilitation" when he was about 14.  His indent states his native place as Brampton.  He also used the name James Sykes (he had a brother Thomas - I think - from his indent).  I can find just one Samuel Sykes to fit this in the old IGI, but I know that not everyone is always included.   Could someone please advise how difficult it might be to find details of any others that might fit in this district??    I think his father was William.   Samuel's last crime was stealing pearl counters for/from a garden.

Regards and thanks,
lynne
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: nanny jan on Friday 02 September 11 12:27 BST (UK)
Hi,

Welcome to Rootschat.   :)

Found this group of Sykes in Brampton on 1841 census:

James (40), Sarah (45), Harriott (20), Eleanor (15), David (15), George (15), Ann (13), James (11), Sarah (10), Samuel ( 8 ), Martha (5).  James snr. shown as Gardener and Harriot as Dressmaker.

HO107  450   4/12  18

Ages were adjusted on 1841 census so Eleanor, David and George are possibly not a set of triplets.


Nanny Jan
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: suzard on Friday 02 September 11 13:52 BST (UK)
on census nanny jan has posted all except Sarah were b in Hunts

If you are certain he had a brother Thomas and his father was William -and he used the name James then is this a possibility?

1841 St Benedict Hunts
William Sykes 45 lab
Mary 35
John Shilton 14 lab
James Sykes 9
Thomas Sykes 6
George Sykes 4
Elizabeth Sykes 3
Wiliam Sykes 1mth
HO107 455 2 12 18

????

Suz
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: suzard on Friday 02 September 11 14:07 BST (UK)
On Criminal registers Hunts I can find james Sykes and Thomas Sykes - convictions for larceny -  received 4days imprison and whipped and then later transpoterd 7 years
James was 15 in 1847 and Thomas was 9

Cannot find a Samuel in Hunts records

Suz
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: suzard on Friday 02 September 11 14:15 BST (UK)
this is the family who lived at St Benedict Hunts in 1841
1851
St Johns Lane Huntingdon Hunts
William Sykes Head M 60 Chelsea Out Pensioner Gt Stukely Hunts
Mary wife 49 Gt Stukely Hunts Blind
George son 13 Lab Huntingdon Hunts
Elizabeth daughter 12 Brampton Hunts
William son 10 St benedicts hunts
HO107 1748 487 10

Suz
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Friday 02 September 11 16:15 BST (UK)
Hi Lynne

Welcome to Rootschat.

Brampton baptisms haven't been extracted onto the IGI or BVRI, nor was the LDS allowed to film the parish register. What you've seen on the IGI is a member submission, which range in quality from well researched to pure fiction. The one that you've found, presumably the one baptised on 23 Apr 1833, looks to be towards the more reliable end of the scale.

The trouble is, he's not yours, if yours was transported in 1846/7.

In 1841 living in Brampton were James and Sarah Sykes, with children Harriet 20, Elearn 15, David 15, George 15, Ann 13, James 11, Sarah 10, Samuel 8, Martha 5. No sign of a Thomas.

In 1851 still in Brampton, James 56, Ann 23, Sarah 20, Samuel 17, Martha 14.  So this can't be your family as Samuel was still in England.

James Sykes aged 14 was sentenced to 7 years at Huntingdon on 16 Jul 1847 - http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/park18.html

If you check Cambridge Archives online catalogue at http://calm.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/ArchiveCatalogue/dserve.exe there are a number of references to James and Thomas Sykes being admitted to Huntingdon workhouse.

I think the James Sykes in Huntingdon in 1841 looks a better bet

David

Sorry if I've duplicated some things. I typed this before 2pm, went out for a game of pétanque, thinking I'd finish it when I got back. You were all too quick for me!
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: suzard on Friday 02 September 11 20:11 BST (UK)
Hi Lynne

Welcome to Rootschat.

Brampton baptisms haven't been extracted onto the IGI or BVRI, nor was the LDS allowed to film the parish register. What you've seen on the IGI is a member submission, which range in quality from well researched to pure fiction. The one that you've found, presumably the one baptised on 23 Apr 1833, looks to be towards the more reliable end of the scale.

The trouble is, he's not yours, if yours was transported in 1846/7.

In 1841 living in Brampton were James and Sarah Sykes, with children Harriet 20, Elearn 15, David 15, George 15, Ann 13, James 11, Sarah 10, Samuel 8, Martha 5. No sign of a Thomas.

In 1851 still in Brampton, James 56, Ann 23, Sarah 20, Samuel 17, Martha 14.  So this can't be your family as Samuel was still in England.

James Sykes aged 14 was sentenced to 7 years at Huntingdon on 16 Jul 1847 - http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/park18.html



I think the James Sykes in Huntingdon in 1841 looks a better bet

David

Sorry if I've duplicated some things. I typed this before 2pm, went out for a game of pétanque, thinking I'd finish it when I got back. You were all too quick for me!

Thomas Sykes was sentenced to 7 yrs transportation at the same time as James

I think the family I posted in 1851 are most probable (parents William/Mary

It looks like their children were born in various parts of Huntingdonshire -some of them in Brampton


Suz
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Friday 02 September 11 21:20 BST (UK)

I think the family I posted in 1851 are most probable (parents William/Mary

Suz
I agree Suz
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: mrshoggy on Wednesday 07 September 11 07:34 BST (UK)
Hi all and thanks for your helpful replies. it is so much appreciated.    Have looked over & over at James/Sarah's family but think David & Suz are right.  Samuel, on his convict indent stated his father as William, his own name being given as Samuel.  There was a bro George and as mentioned, Thomas.  However, in Tasmania, in 1873 he (James/Sam) was further charged with sheep stealing (a charge which was dismissed) and his indent makes note that he was using his name as James.  He used James it seems from his arrival in Tas.  James' eldest son was named William James and one of his daughters, Elizabeth. (he had 12 children).   It seems I can rule out James/Sarah's family, simply becos both James & Samuel were still in UK in 1851.  James was definitely not in UK then.  He was transported on the Blenheim 3.  Am unable to locate Thomas after mention on James/Samuel's indent that his brother Thomas had come with him from Millbank(?) Thomas wld have been abt 9, so I wonder if he was transported?   Am not sure who the John Shelton/Shilton was but he too was charged with larceny at one time.  Just one more question if I may Suz?  In 1851, was Mary listed as "blind", Was this as in cannot see.  It would explain a lot of family history....
Again, so many many thanks.
Lynne in Tassie
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: suzard on Thursday 08 September 11 02:11 BST (UK)
Yes - blind as in cannot see - it is written in the end column

Will see if she is on any llater census -although "afflictions" weren't always noted

Suz
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: mrshoggy on Thursday 08 September 11 04:15 BST (UK)
Hi Suz,
Thanx so much for yr reply.    There is an extremely strong history of eye trouble in our SYKES family, so this info makes me feel slightly more convinced.   In fact, one of James/Samuel's grand-daughters was declared legally blind when a young adult, my cousin had to wear teeny glasses from when she was six months old etc etc.
Will have a look and see what I can find out on-line about the union workhouse.
Again, my many thanks.
Lynne
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: suzard on Thursday 08 September 11 11:47 BST (UK)
It looks like mary had died before 1861 census -and William had knocked 15 years off his age!!!!! But it looks like this is the family

1861
North End Huntingdon
William Sykes Head widower 55 Chelsea pensioner Gt Stockley Hunts
James Valentine son in law M 20 Labourer Huntingdon Hunts
Elizabeth Valentine daughter M 22 Brampton Hunts
next
George Sykes Lodger U 24 labourer Huntingdon
RG9 975 72 11

Marriage reg FreeBMD
Sept qtr 1859
Huntingdon
on same page
Elizabeth Sykes
James Valentine


Suz
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: mrshoggy on Sunday 11 September 11 04:19 BST (UK)
Hi Suz,
Thanks for your help.   I looked at some bits in the Huntingdon Union Workhouse and this fits to these guys it seems as well.
I wondered what had happened to Elizabeth, Thomas, James and William Jnr.  So thanks for the info on Elizabeth.  Will look further to see if I can find where/when/if Thomas was eventually transported, and what had happened to William Jnr.  Thanks so much for your help.

Lynne
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: suzard on Sunday 11 September 11 08:46 BST (UK)
Maybe this is William jnr?

1861
On board Vitake Whitby
Yarmouth Roads
William Sykes I 19 Seaman Appe Hundingdon
RG9 4442 121


Suz
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: mrshoggy on Monday 12 September 11 00:33 BST (UK)
Hi Suz and again thanks.

Certainly worth looking further into re William.
At the moment am still trying to find Thomas.  Unless he too changed his name (James changed his on his convict indent to Samuel)
then later reverted back as well.   There was no Thomas Sykes on the Blenheim 3.  I know that some kids as young as 9 were sentenced
and sent by transportation, but it didn't happen often, so wonder if he was transported later, but at the mo can find nothing into VDL.  There is
family hearsay that there were two brothers - they apparently "fought" over money, and one came to Tas, tother to NZ.  Given James' history
this could merely just be a story to cover his history however.   He was a very secretive man too it's said.
Some of the Parkhurst Boys were sent to both Western Australia and NZ, so will look there as well.    I think Mary's (James'mother) was
born Mary Shelton, and John, the boarder with them in 1841 census was her son.  Makes sense.    Again, thanks so much.

Lynne
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: BAC3 on Friday 18 November 11 17:23 GMT (UK)
Hello,

I have details for Samuel (James) SYKES, ex-Parkhurst Boy, if anyone would care to drop me a note.

For now,

BAC3
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 08 October 13 13:53 BST (UK)
I'll p.m. the poster, she must not get notification...

Perhaps James had a middle name Samuel  Several of my ancestors bounced back & forth between forename & middle name.

A bit on James Valentine's family...They seem to have Elizabeth dying very young, before the next census...but don't see her death in the district in that time period...Nor the marriage for James before the 1871... Wonder if she might have been using a middle name thing as well. 
http://genealogy-paulsen.com/Britain/Valentine_Register/RR01/RR01_006.HTM

May be William's progress http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wg1/
Have you sent for William's birth cert to find out Mary's surname? I see the marriage 1830   Great Stukeley to Mary Shelton, but that may have been a marriage surname as well....
I see the christening which does look pretty convincing, but 5 years after we found all proof leading to only one gal born in an area.... we found marriage of another gal, same name, born same district, same age, family had moved away as a baby ....& the poster had already followed through to the wrong ancestors...

Thus my tagline. J.J.
Title: Re: Samuel Sykes
Post by: mrshoggy on Tuesday 08 October 13 22:48 BST (UK)
Hi JJ and thanks for your reply.
I'm still new to Rootschat tho' started many moons ago.
I agree - I have come across situations where someone has created
an almost full family tree from incorrect situations, simply because
it was the only one there to be found at the time!!

will check out the other information and thanks so much for your help.
Lynne in Tasmania.