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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: NEW ENGLAND on Thursday 01 September 11 14:56 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I have just received details from Worcester Records Office of my gr.gr.grandparents wedding which took place in June 1830.
Can someone please tell me the next step in trying to find their parents names? I very naively thought this information would be included in the marriage details.
Regards
NEW ENGLAND
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Hi
Fathers names were not shown on marriage entries prior to 1.7.1837 which is the date when Civil Registration was introduced. Mothers names are never shown on English marriage certs
All you will get will be on the lines of the following - some of which you may already know
Names, date and venue
Spinster/bachelor - or widow/widower
If over 21yrs - will just say "full age"
Under 21yrs - "Minor"
Of this parish (OTP) - does not necessarily mean they were both born in that parish - just that they satisfied the short residential qualifying time required to enable them to marry there (approx 3wks)
The name and signature of the person marrying them plus the signatures of the 2 witnesses (occasionally more than 2 witnesses but not usual)
Have you checked the IGI for baptisms?
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
and also
https://www.familysearch.org/#form=advanced-records
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Hi New England,
FamilySearch coverage in Worcestershire can be patchy and please remember it is only an index, as are those below.
The county marriage (1660-1837) and burial index from BMSGH are at http://www.bmsgh.org/search/sea1.html. BMSGH covers the 3 counties of STS, WAR and WOR http://www.bmsgh.org/ and members get a discount on the searches.
Malvern Family History Society are doing a county baptism index, currently working on dates between 1754 and 1812. (1813-1839 is finished and is available on a pay per view site. http://www.fhs-online.co.uk/ Register for free and get to know the search engine before you part with any money.) After logging in click on Search our databases, then scroll to the bottom of the page and click on Worcestershire*coverage.
When you have entered the parameters and search use the View potential family members button.
There is also a relatively new transcription project called FreeREG, http://www.freereg.org.uk/ but again coverage is patchy.
Hope that helps
Mike
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Friday 2nd September 2011 7.35p.m.
Hello CaroleW and Yegvard,
Thank you both very much for all your information - quite a bit to go at over the week-end.
I am rather ignorant and puzzled when it comes to searching indexes. I have never yet had any luck with them; but probably I don't know how to use them.
No doubt I shall be wanting further help!!
Again many thanks.
Kind regards
NEW ENGLAND
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Hi New England if you write or email Worcester Record Office, for the cost of about £3.00 they will send you a print out of your Gtx2 Grandparents Wedding, it won't have the Parents names, but the Witnesses and other details will help.
Linell.
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Saturday 3rd September 2011
Hello Linell,
Thank you for your email. I have the document you mention (it was £5.)
and I didn't know it wouldn't show the parent's name. In fact it gave only the couple's names, date of marriage, Curator's name and the names of two witnesses. My first attempt to trace these was negative; I shall try again.
One thing which puzzled me was that my gr.gr.grandfather's signature appeared without a X; as did one of the witnesses. However, the handwriting throughout appeared similar; also to the previous entry.
Is it a copy of the original document?
Kind regards
NEW ENGLAND
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Hi New England
It would have helped if you had put the names of your Gt Gt grandparents down with the parish that they were married in - then some of us would have been able to try & help you by doing a look up at the History Centre
All the very best
Phil
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Hi New England, yes your document should be a print out from the Parish Register, can't see it being a fake. :o No X means that your GtX2 Grandfather signed his name, as did the Witness. As Phil suggested, you need to put all the info you have on here, would be a big help.
Linell.
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Hi New England
Ive been waiting for you to put the detail on as I was going to try & do a look up for you - but my time on this library computer is fast running out & I wont have access to one again this holiday in time to see the details needed to do a look up
All the best
Phil
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Saturday 3rd September 2011 5.00p.m.
Hello Linell and Philweeks,
Thank you both for your emails. Sorry about not putting details - must try harder!
My gr.gr.grandfather/grandmother:
BENJAMIN WILLLIAMS and HANNAH WILLIAMS (nee Davis)
They were married at St.Mary's Church, Kidderminster on 27th June 1830
Details from Marriage Register:-
Benjamin Williams of This Parish, a Bachelor and
Hannah Davis of This Parish, a Spinster
were married in this Church by Banns with Consent of Parents, this
Twenty-Seventh Day of June in the Year One Thousand Eight Hundred and Thirty.
By me, T.Cook, Curator
This Marriage was solemnized between us ( Benjamin Williams
( Hannah Davis her mark X
In the Presence of ( Charlotte Rowley her Mark X
( Thos. Andrews
They are on the 1851 census living in Highley with their 3 sons and 4 daughters:-
Edwin, James, Sarah, Mary, Emma, Benjamin, Leah.
I am trying to trace the parents of Benjamin and Hannah.
Many thanks for all your help.
Kind regards
NEW ENGLAND
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Hi New England, do you have an idea as to when Benjamin was born? I did a search on the IGI for 1810 plus and minus 10 years, and there are a lot for Shropshire, Staffordshire and Worcestershire. At a guess I would think his father was either an Edwin or a James, family names are usually carried on.
Linell.
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Saturday 3rd September 2011 6.20p.m.
Hello Linell,
I'm not sure of his birth date but the 1861 census gives it as 1811 and his place of birth as Warfield, Shropshire - which I think should be WORFIELD.
The 1881 census shows he is widowed aged 70, born Worfield, Shropshire
living with his son Benjamin and Grandson William.
I think that 1810/1811 is probably correct, but there aren't any certificates available for these years are there?
Kind regards
NEW ENGLAND
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BENJAMIN WILLLIAMS and HANNAH WILLIAMS (nee Davis)
They were married at St.Mary's Church, Kidderminster on 27th June 1830
in Highley, Shropshire.
New England, I'm a bit confused. Were they married at St Mary's Church, Kidderminster (which is in Worcestershire) or were they married in Highley (Shropshire)? It can't be both. ???
Julie
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Sunday 4th September 2011
Hello Julie,
They were married at St.Mary's. Kidderminster. Sorry for this mix-up; it was when I was re-arranging paragraphs and I missed this error.
Sorry, and thank you for your email.
Kind regards
NEW ENGLAND
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Sunday 4th September 2011
Hello All,
I have just been looking through my papers and have found the Death Certificate for Benjamin Williams -
He died 31st October 1889 Aged 88 yrs.
at Button Bridge, Kinlet.
Informant was Benjamin George (Son-in-Law) husband of Leah Williams.
This makes his birth year 1801 and not 1811 as given on all the census returns. I know we should allow for errors but 10 years??
Does this mean that the Benjamin Williams on the 1881 census mentioned in my posting yesterday is a different one?
How do I resolve this please?
Kind regards
NEW ENGLAND
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Benjamin is consistent with his year and pob of Birth on 1851/1861/1871/1881 Census.
The info given on the Death Cert is only what the informant thinks, and can be wrong unless the informant is extremely close to the deceased.
I am a little confused re the Marriage in 1830 also.
The first Child in 1851 Census was born 1829.
Edwin also says in 1881 he was born c 1828.
Did you get Hannahs maiden name from a Childs Birth Cert?
Now do you have the 1841 Census?
This is the one I found as they should be in Highley in 1841
1841 Census
Highley, Shropshire
HO107/922/1/HIGHLEY
Benjn WILLIAMS, 30, Tailor
Hannah, 30
Wm, 10 (could be Edwin described as Wm, was his name misheard?)
Tho, 5
James, 4
Sarah, 2
1851 they have;
EDWIN, 1829, born Billingsley
JAMES, 1838, Highley
SARAH, 1840, Highley
MARY, 1842, Highley
EMMA, 1844, Highley
BENJAMIN, 5, Highley
LEAH, 1, Highley
I can only find 1 Davis born Kinlet c 1805 +/- 2yrs on FreeREG;
WILLIAM, 31 Jan 1807 to WILLIAM/ANNE + a MARY to them 1810
Sorry more questions than answers.
Trish :)
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Monday 5th September 2011
Hello Trish,
Thank you for your email. I too am confused!
I thought the details on the death certificate would be accurate. The informant was his son-in-law and Benjamin was obviously living with him when he died. Kinlet village is only a few miles from Highley and it would be natural for him to go and live with his daughter Leah.
I do have the 1841 census and the 1851,61,71,81.
The first son - Wm. on 1841 census and Edwin on 1851 census is probably the same person.
He could have been born before his parents married
He could have been a relative's son they 'adopted'
He could have been from a previous marriage.
I think I had Hannah's maiden name from an advanced search of Family History.org. She was born at Kinlet.
The problem is trying to find recorded proof of this information - hence my original query. I just don't know where people search for such information.
Thank you for your help.
Kind regards
NEW ENGLAND
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Hi New England
I would never have got the info to try & do a look up at Worcester History Centre had it not been for my cousin Julie (jaybeebuzz) as she sent me the info by text.
This is far from the info that I like to send as a look up result but hope that it may help a bit.
This is the nearest that I can find for a baptism of what may be your Benjamin in the registers of St Mary Kidderminster
23 AUG 1808 Benjamin s/o Stephen/Letitia Williams
I then looked at the marraige books to see if their marraige had been recorded in the index but the only one that I could find in them that would fit is at Old Swinford, WOR
page 64 No 253 by Banns 17 MAR 1800
Stephen Williams (B) = Letitia Walters (S)
Wits Samuel Walters, Theophene Walters. Rector Thomas P. Foley
I was sunable to find Benjamin & the family on the 1841 or 51 census & had little to go on so please dont treat this info as fact, I know in looks very little but it took me just over 2 hours to find
All the very best
Phil
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Hi New England
I forgot to say that I searched Kidderminster St mary registers from 1830 - 1836 & could find no sign of any siblings for Benjamin.
The marriage that you have for Benjamin Williams & Hannah Davis is 27 JUN 1830
& the Wits were Charlotte Bowley, Thomas Andrews.
All the very best
Phil
ps the sourse for all the look up was the Parish registers for the parish concerned & the look up was done at Worcester History Centre (on reader number 21 to be exact :))
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Hi Again New England
I also forgot to say that I searched the parish registers of St Mary's Kidderminster from the start of 1802 to the end of 1808 for a possible marriage of Benjamin's parents but found none in those years
All the very best
Phil
ps I shall be unable to do any more searching at Worcester History Centre until Christmas time when on my next holiday in the county of my birth
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Thursday 8th September 2011
Hello Phil,
Thank you very much for all your information and the trouble you have taken to look this up for me. I do appreciate your efforts as I know how long it can take to find either a tiny bit of information or none at all; which is the result I have had on my last two visits to Shropshire Archives. My thanks also to your cousin Julie (jaybeebuzz) for sending the information to you.
I have my doubts about Benjamin being born in Kidderminster but I am keeping an open mind. My next move should be to check the births at Worfield on my next visit to Shrewsbury. I will plod on trying different avenues and hope to find confirmation of the right Benjamin and Hannah.
Thank you also for correcting the name of Charlotte Bowley; one of the witnesses for Benjamin and Hannah on 27th June 1830. I read it as ROWLEY.
I do hope you enjoyed your holiday in lovely Worcestershire in spite of the time you spent searching the Archives.
Thank you and Kind regards
Lavinia (NEW ENGLAND)
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Hi Lavinia
This is the first time I have got my hands on a computer connecter to the internet since I sent to you last & Ive been suffering withdrawel symptoms :)
Im very sorry that I was unable to do your look up to the best of my satisfaction as I pride myself on doing a thorough job if I can - but this time the lack of info beat me into a corner but I did try hard (honest) even though it dousnt look like it.
Im back home at Weston-super-Mare looking after myself again after my long holiday in Worcestershire, I shall be going on another long holiday in that county for Christmas/New Year so if there is anything alse you would like me to have a go at in Worcester History Centre let me know & I will do my best to help you out
All the very best
Phil
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Sunday 18th September 2011
Hello Phil,
Thank you for your email. Please don't apologise; I'm sure you did your very best and I'm surprised you were able to find out the amount that you did.
Thank you for your kind offer to do a further look-up when you are next in Worcestershire and I will contact you again if there is anything more I need researching.
Again many thanks and Best Wishes.
Lavinia (NEW ENGLAND)