RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Lydart on Wednesday 31 August 11 19:51 BST (UK)
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Tonight, BBC 1, 9 p.m.
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Watching it now. Very good.
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Oh my! Husband loved that he met his half uncle! I really thought that Larry got into researching - he seemed to really care what happened and what he found out.
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Excellent, a most enjoyable watch! :D
Delighted that he was able to discover so much information about his grandparents for his elderly mother. :D
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Excellent, the best one yet!
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I was in tears at the end, best episode to date. I would have loved to have seen his mum and her brother meet up at the end of the programme. It would have made a great ending.
panda
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A fantastic episode. Loved the happy ending!
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Fascinating; interesting records on both sides. I hope Jessie and John managed to meet.
Best one so far. :)
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A great result , and so much information from both sides of his mothers family.
He was so pleased to meet all these relations .
One of the best episodes .
Spring
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I loved it, I agree one of the best :) :)
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A lovely heartwarming episode.
He was so natural and genuine with the people he met- you could see it in his body language and everything. Splendid. :)
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Brilliant episode!!
Larry was so natural and excited at what he found out.
I hope that he continues with this family further. :)
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You don't have to go back a long way to make a fantastic program
Wow
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I agree with all the comments. The most enjoyable and interesting episode I have seen so far and Larry Lamb seemed quite delighted with all that was discovered.
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Yes, a good programme !
Did we ever see what happened to his grandfather, Albert Day ?? When and where he died ??
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Yes, a good programme !
Did we ever see what happened to his grandfather, Albert Day ?? When and where he died ??
I think Manchester and alcohol were mentioned but I don't think they gave a date. :-\
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Agree with all replies so far, I really enjoyed this one.
The previous episodes of this new series hadn't 'grabbed' me as much as the previous series, but I'm really glad I stuck with it.
Simply loved it. :)
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The WDYTYA magazine website has a very small clip of "unseen footage".........it's not Jessie and John meeting up.
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Definitely the best of the series so far 8)
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Super!!
Anna
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Of all the WDYTYA programmes this was certainly the most interesting for us the viewers and for Larry Lamb to find out so much about his family from having so little to work with I think he was, pardon the expression, gobsmacked!
I couldn't take my eyes off the screen waiting for the next part of this story to unravel.
Abiam2
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Excellent. Loved this episode.
It was great to see the thinking behind the research for a change. The logical step by step process of getting certficates and tracing it back. Eliminating possibilities before jumping to the next conclusion (... can't find death, maybe re-married...then maybe emigrated, then no death so maybe married again etc). Much better than some episodes which just have leaps of logic without showing how they got there.
And - interesting to see the travelling funfair community. I don't think they've done that before.
And - interesting to do an adoption story too..
And of course - to find a brother at the end.
One of the best episodes for ages I think.
Also - he was just a working class boy with no famous relatives. It is a story any one of us could find in our own past. I like those stories better than the ones who are linked to landed gentry or famous people.
Milly ;D
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Thoroughly enjoyed it! My, they crammed a lot into that programme :) It was nice to have both tracing backwards and working forwards too.
Very interesting how the 'travelling' genes seem to have continued down the family. :)
Heather
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Great programme!
Larry has announced on Twitter that his mother and her brother have met.
A lovely story
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I was in tears at the end
Glad it wasn't just me who had to grab the tissues!
I thought this was fascinating. Best one this series.
OH came in and interrupted me during the programme (must watch it again on iplayer) - but did Little Albert disappear from the Day family before his marriage? If so, I thought it wonderful that the Day family stories still include him.
Cati
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Where did you find that bit of 'unseen' footage NJ ??
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think its here Lydart
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/footage/12163
The Beeb used to have links to it but this series appears to have little coverage over there :-\
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Thank you !
I've often wondered why Jewish people leave a stone at the grave of their family or friends ... remember that last scene in Schindlers List ?? Anyone know the reason ?
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I think the significance of the stone is about leaving a mark that the deceased person has been remembered and visited by loved ones. Flowers wilt but the stones remain in place. It was explained in one of the very early WDYTYA programs but I can't remember which one, possibly David Baddel?
Jenny
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Thank you !
I've often wondered why Jewish people leave a stone at the grave of their family or friends ... remember that last scene in Schindlers List ?? Anyone know the reason ?
I think it is to show others that someone else has visited but I could be wrong.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070605190353AAsEhkk
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I wonder how much research was done to find Larry's grandfather Albert Day ? There are a few 'possibles' in the BMD deaths index for Albert Day deaths between 1950 and 1980. Did they try to eliminate any, I wonder ?
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Probably !
Remember, what we see in the programme is no doubt only some of the research ... I expect Larry Lamb got as much info as the researchers found; we just get the interesting bits !
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I agree with everyone else
One of if not the best yet.
What a lovely family he has and what lovely new families he has found I do hope he keeps in touch with the Days and the Rosens.
Carolyn
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Agree with all.....one of the best yet . It tackled 2 subjects which are hard to research . Travelling people and adoption.Well done ---a superb hour of viewing.
Ringrose
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and naturally, the one that I missed, and I can't get the beeb i-player in Ireland :(
In answer as well to the stone on the Jewish grave...
"Even when visiting Jewish graves of someone that the visitor never knew, the custom is to place a small stone on the grave using the left hand. This shows that someone visited the gravesite, and is also a way of participating in the mitzvah of burial. Leaving flowers is not a traditional Jewish practice. Another reason for leaving stones is to tend the grave. In Biblical times, gravestones were not used; graves were marked with mounds of stones (a kind of cairn), so by placing (or replacing) them, one perpetuated the existence of the site."
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Seems that Larry's extended family has links to the Chipperfield family see Find My Past Link (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/content/wdytya/larry-lamb.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=fmp_email&utm_term=reg&utm_content=010911&utm_campaign=wdytyalarrylamb)
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I liked it that the Days he met said if they had know about the child of Albert, they would have taken her in, not allowed an adoption ...
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I liked it that the Days he met said if they had know about the child of Albert, they would have taken her in, not allowed an adoption ...
Yes, I thought that was a lovely moment
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Thoroughly enjoyed this programme about Larry Lamb.
A mixture of everything, adoption, travelling fairground people, new found family, and if you watch the clip provided, he found Kay Rosen's grave.
An excellent evening !
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I've yet to watch this episode (OH chose 2 mins before the start of the programme to telephone me for a chat - just because he had 2 hours to wait to make a delivery ::) ) After all the comments I am looking forward to it even more than I was. All I can say is thank goodness for sky+.
Larry Lamb has done a couple of promotional interviews on TV this past week and he mentioned that the red button service on the BBC has some more about his story. Something about they used him to show how to do the researching and where to look. It's part of the BBC First Click campaign. I know you can get red button on freeview, but not sure about on line.
Pebs
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I agree - I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I was interested to see Larry at the Fairground Archive at Sheffield University. Its somewhere I keep meaning to go as I have fairground ancestors (grandfather and great grandfather). If they're all as helpful as that professor lady was with Larry, I might take the plunge.
Unfortunately, my ancestors weren't famous showmen like Larry's. They just worked for showmen like Randall Williams so not sure if there'd be any records to be found. ???
I also agree with Milly - nice to see them doing 'one of us' for a change instead of those with links to well documented gentry.
Jill
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It's the best one I've seen - but was it irony when LL visited a traditional funfair, and as he was saying that it was just how he remembered them to be as a boy, the camera cut to a shot of a board saying '3 balls for £1.00' &!&
I think it would have been nearer 6d if it was totally traditional LOL
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It's the best one I've seen - but was it irony when LL visited a traditional funfair, and as he was saying that it was just how he remembered them to be as a boy, the camera cut to a shot of a board saying '3 balls for £1.00' &!&
I think it would have been nearer 6d if it was totally traditional LOL
The funfair is a permanent exhibit at the Black Country Museum: more details about it here:
http://www.bclm.co.uk/map15.htm
It's still a working funfair, so I suppose prices have to reflect current ones...
Cati
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I thought it interesting that having got his grandmother's marriage cert, which showed she'd married in a register office, they just automatically decided to check synagogues. My first thought - and I would guess, most other peoples - would have been to see if there were any children of the marriage. The fact that they just jumped to a syngagogue didn't ring true, and how did they know which one to choose? I suppose they had to get the link to the synagogue and granny becoming Jewish somehow.
I liked the way the American guy showed his research. Looked for a death of granny, couldn't find one so looked for the death of her husband. Found it, got the certificate and then found granny used a different Christian name, so checked for deaths under that name, then as she was only about 60 when her husband died, looked for marriages. At least it showed how to get round difficulties in finding people in records.
Lizzie
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I suppose her marrying someone with an obviously Jewish name like Rosen was the clue; then they must have seen where the registry office marriage was, and then checked to see if there was any records in a local synagogue ? Maybe they just got lucky, or maybe they checked all the synagogue records in that area of London.
Perhaps Jews marrying a gentile in a registry office weren't considered married properly, until the non-Jew had converted ? Then the marriage followed on ...
Just guessing !
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Maybe they already knew something
Trainspotter mode on
Did you see Kay (Catherine's) Grave said Kay Rosen (and not Levitz)
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Certainly, she didn't seem to have her son until after she'd converted, even though he would have been legitimate in the eyes of the law. Odd that both times she married she was 5 months pregnant. ::) Not sure how a Jewish marriage would take precedence over a register office, she was already married by law.
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I was interested to see Larry at the Fairground Archive at Sheffield University. Its somewhere I keep meaning to go as I have fairground ancestors (grandfather and great grandfather). If they're all as helpful as that professor lady was with Larry, I might take the plunge.
Unfortunately, my ancestors weren't famous showmen like Larry's. They just worked for showmen like Randall Williams so not sure if there'd be any records to be found. ???
There was a talk about fairground folk at my local FHS a few months ago: from what the speaker told us, they are immensely helpful.
I understand that the professor is from a fairground backgroung herself.
Cati
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really enjoyed this episode. Only critique would be why they didnt mention the Chipperfield connection?
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Perhaps because it was irrelevant to the story ?
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hardly irrelevant. Both the Days and Chipperfields were well known in Travelling Shows, and the fact that Larry Lamb is related to both families (they found a 2nd cousin I believe) would have been of interest to some.
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Can anyone remember........was this the first time a 1911 census sheet had been shown?
Nanny Jan
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Certainly, she didn't seem to have her son until after she'd converted, even though he would have been legitimate in the eyes of the law. Odd that both times she married she was 5 months pregnant. ::) Not sure how a Jewish marriage would take precedence over a register office, she was already married by law.
I think that being a Jew is passed on through the mother.
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Larry Lamb is another one with a direct rellie who went to America. I am amazed at how many of us Brits have direct rellies who emigrated. When I am in Chicago I might see if they have any info on Pennsylvania records for my 3xgreat grandad. Long shot but they may help.
Not a trace of Archie Mitchell last night.
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Can anyone remember........was this the first time a 1911 census sheet had been shown?
Nanny Jan
I think so ... and do you know when the blanked out column will be visible ??
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Can anyone remember........was this the first time a 1911 census sheet had been shown?
I thought they showed one in the J.K. Rowling episode. They showed how her grandmother had entered 'married' against her name, and it had been crossed out and replaced by the word 'head'.
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I think so ... and do you know when the blanked out column will be visible ??
2nd Jan 2012 - the date the whole census would have been out had it not been for Guy Etchells fight to get it earlier for us.
Agree with everything that has been said here about last nights prog,best for ages.
Carol
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I think that being a Jew is passed on through the mother.
Catherine Walker Burns Rose born illegitimate, 27th April 1908 at 10 Milne Court, Lawnmarket, Edinburgh father John Rose ‘Licenced Pedlar’ mother Catherine Walker Burns ‘Confectioner’
In 1911 in Dundee, Catherine Walker Burns Rose is with her mother, aged 23 and father aged 24 now listed as a 'Hawker of Hardware’ and has 2 younger siblings Jessie 19 months and Charles 1 month. The parents are listed as married, but I can't find evidence of that.
I followed up on that census entry, and found a death certificate in Dundee for the same year (23rd July 1911) for John Rose aged 24 years, death informant Katie Walker (Inmate). There is a possibility that this is the correct John Rose.
Against the argument...... He is described as ‘Assistant at the Roller Skating Rink’ (single)
For the argument..... The informant. His age is correct. His father’s occupation is described as ‘Hardware Hawker’ (Deceased) the same occupation as John Rose had declared on his 1911 census.
The plot thickens..... If this is the correct John Rose, then I am sure he is from a Jewish family. Which ties in with the programme, Catherine Walker Burns Rose, married in the Synagogue, after converting to the faith, so if I’m correct with her father, she was half Jewish anyway.
This death certificate lists his Parents’ as Abraham David Rose, ‘Hardware Hawker’ (deceased) and Rebecca Lindey.
Further research shows this family living in Edinburgh in 1901, Parents both born in Germany, as was John and his two older siblings (Harris and Isabella), his three younger siblings (Solomon, Lea and Israel) having been born in Edinburgh.
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Really enjoyed it too.
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One more vote - I too really enjoyed this :)
Also, enjoying reading all the bits of info you all have posted. Thx to heedrapper for his research ! V. interesting. Still can't think what a young girl of 17 from Edinburgh was doing in London, seems a long way to go to work in service. Would love to know what happend to Albert Day (Jr) ???
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The best of the lot! Even OH was glued from start to finish.
I loved Larry's enthusiasm, no major histrionics but that little break in his voice at the end of the programme had me searching for my hankie.
Suey
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Hi,
I thoroughly enjoyed it too and thanks heedrapper for the extra information - very interesting.
Did anyone notice that Albert was lying about his age when he married Catherine? The certificate states he was 24 but he was actually 28 (born 13th April, 1897)
Just an aside - When the Day family were showing Larry the photos, they showed him one of Wallace the man eating lion! I just can`t get Stanley Holloways rendition of Albert and the Lion out of my head now.
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'Young Albert was et'n by a lion ... '
And what was that about 'the stick w'the 'orses 'ead 'andle' ...
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'Young Albert was et'n by a lion ... '
And what was that about 'the stick w'the 'orses 'ead 'andle' ...
He pushed it in Wallace`s ear!!
I can`t help wondering if that is where Albert disappeared to ;D ;D ;D
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I think they must have tried quite hard to trace Albert after he disappeared. They mention a couple of times that he vanished without a trace. He sounds like the kind of person who might have emigrated. That would be my guess - either that or he changed his name for some reason - possibly to escape something... debt? or perhaps another illegitimate baby on the way?
It would be good if rootschatters could find him wouldn't it
Milly
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This was really good! It showed to the unitiated that there are certain processes to be followed, when researching. There were some incidental moments when things were very well explained, such as the being declared dead after 7 years. Larry was very interested in everything he was shown.
It was also interesting to see both sides of the family investigated.
I must repeat what someone suggested after a previous episode, that a 'follow up ' programme would be a good idea. They could include snippets about 3 or 4 celebrities in each programme.
An obvious one here would be the meeting of Larry's mum and her brother.
Kooky
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hardly irrelevant. Both the Days and Chipperfields were well known in Travelling Shows, and the fact that Larry Lamb is related to both families (they found a 2nd cousin I believe) would have been of interest to some.
I think the real reason is that there is only so much that you can fit into a 60 minute programme.
If you go to the WDYTYA Magazine site (http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/footage/12163) you can view footage that had to be removed from the end of the programme because it would have been too long with it included.
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I have to agree with all here that this was one of the most interesting and informative programmes. It really bothers me that some episodes make research look so easy.
BBC iplayer not available outside the UK so I cannot see the start of the episode - need to wait for a repeat!
In Ireland there was a tradition of throwing a stone onto the top flat stone of a dolmen; I have no idea why!
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... the meeting of Larry's mum and her brother.
No ! That would obviously be very emotional, and should definitely be private, away from the cameras.
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... the meeting of Larry's mum and her brother.
No ! That would obviously be very emotional, and should definitely be private, away from the cameras.
That's true Lydart,and his mum she WAS 84,not like some of the youngsters that have met up in that type of programme before. Imagine living to the age of 84 and not knowing you have a half blood rellie out there somewhere........yes very emotional ;D
Carol
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Good job for me they didn't show the meeting - I'd have been in floods myself.
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I think they must have tried quite hard to trace Albert after he disappeared. They mention a couple of times that he vanished without a trace. Milly
I'll have to watch the episode again -as I thought one of the cousins said Albert turned to drink and thought he ended up in Lancashire -then it was glossed over and he supposedly diappeared without trace???
I may have misheard
Buut there is an Albert day b.c. 1897 died in Lancs 1954????
Suz
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I'll have to watch the episode again -as I thought one of the cousins said Albert turned to drink and thought he ended up in Lancashire -then it was glossed over and he supposedly diappeared without trace???
I may have misheard
Buut there is an Albert day b.c. 1897 died in Lancs 1954????
Suz
I think that was Albert's father (also Albert) & the reason the current Days thought Albert (jnr) was with his uncle in 1911.
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I think you are correct
I have just watched some of it again
Lovely episode
Suz
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I also think that this was the best episode so far.
I think it's a shame that Larry Lamb's mother didn't try to trace her birth mother when she was younger. It's been possible for adopted people to trace their mothers for quite a few years now. I remember watching a TV series about it back in the 90s.
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Ah but it is so much easier now with all that is available on the internet and easy to search databases.... not to mention the added help of the WDYTYA researchers. I would guess, Larry's sister had already had a stab at it but gave up.
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I've just finished watching this episode. Loved it.
A few thoughts:
I'm glad they didn't show the meeting of Larry's mother and brother - it would be too intrusive. (But I'm glad to hear that they have since met).
I love Larry Lamb in 'Gavin and Stacey'. I knew I'd seen him before but didn't realise he'd been in Eastenders. What a nice man.
Heedrapper's extra info is fascinating.
I'm sure that they must have been able to at least find the death certificate of Albert Day, even if they had to purchase many before they got the right one, unless of course he did emigrate as suggested.
Like Lizzie I did think that finding the Jewish marriage was a very lucky break - almost too lucky. ;)
I also like the way that Larry actually looked up a few records himself (albeit under instruction), and I think the American reseracher explaining his way of thinking and method of researching Catherine, was very good, rather than just presenting Larry with the records, as is often done in the more recent series.
I must repeat what someone suggested after a previous episode, that a 'follow up ' programme would be a good idea. They could include snippets about 3 or 4 celebrities in each programme.
Kooky
That was my idea about the follow up programmes. 8) There must be a huge amount still to tell about many of the past participants. They could vary the programmes and perhaps cover several in one episode if there was only a small amount of additional information (even just a quick follow up), or there may be so much about others which would necessitate another full programme. I'd love to see this! :)
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Hi
I am sure follow up programs will never happen
p.s. Never heard of Gavin & Stacey
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Just a thought...................
Catherine Walker Burns Rose’s grandmother was Jessie Gardiner Henderson born 8th October 1869, in Edinburgh, and she married William Burns on 2nd April 1888, when she was eight months pregnant.
In 1891, I find this couple living together at 8 Gibbs Entry, Edinburgh, with daughter Catherine (CWB Rose’s mother).
I can’t find them together in 1901, but found entries for Jessie Henderson born about 1870 in Edinburgh, and Jessie Burns born about 1870 in Edinburgh, both in prison.
Could one of these ladies be Larry’s 2nd great grandmother?
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I am sure follow up programs will never happen
No? Why?
Never heard of Gavin & Stacey
It's a comedy series - possibly an acquired taste, but I love it. If anyone is not familiar with it and is interested, I think google would be the best place to look for more info. ;)
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No? Why?
Never heard of Gavin & Stacey
It's a comedy series - possibly an acquired taste, but I love it. If anyone is not familiar with it and is interested, I think google would be the best place to look for more info. ;)
Or here; http://youtu.be/9AZxRBMECQU
Also I think that this episode of WDYTYA was the the best one I have seen
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Didn't think of YouTube - great idea
stonechat. youngtug :)
(Watch them in chronological order ;))
The clip of Series 1 Episode 3, where the family is discussing where Gavin and Stacey's wedding will take place and 'Fairground' is mentioned is very close to home for Larry, even though he wouldn't have known it at the time. ;D Fabuolous characters! ;D
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The weekend TV previews for next week (Emilia Fox) in the Times rate that as one of the best ever - perhaps they're building up as the series goes on. The "talk to older relatives" bit comes into play.......
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Didn't think of YouTube - great idea stonechat. :)
::)
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There's an old Daily Telegraph article by Nick Barrett giving some details of Emilia Fox's background.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/3632703/Family-detective.html
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Didn't think of YouTube - great idea stonechat. :)
::)
ooops, sorry about that Youngtug. :-[ I wasn't concentrating ... :-[
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Just watched this episode on iPlayer and agree with what has been said - a VERY good programme from all sorts of angles :)
One thing that interested me particularly was that Catherine had married, in all cases, people outside the cultural 'norm'. To marry a fairground person who, from my own experience, has a strong and separate culture from the mainstream..... and then marry a Jewish person (ok 2 Jewish people) who again have a strong independent culture outside the 'norm' for the country.....
It really does make me wonder about Catherine's own background and why she is drawn to outsiders ???
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A thoroughly entertaining programme and definitely one of the best ever WDYTYAs. You couldn't help but warm to Larry Lamb as he made all these amazing discoveries.
On the side issue of Wallace the Man Eating Lion, he is preserved (stuffed!) in Sunderland Museum. When I lived in Sunderland as a lad I used to love to pop in and look at him. I seem to remember that he is also mentioned in "Sons and Lovers" by DH Lawrence. Quite a celebrity!
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Just watched this episode on iPlayer and agree with what has been said - a VERY good programme from all sorts of angles :)
It really does make me wonder about Catherine's own background and why she is drawn to outsiders ???
Yes a very enjoyable episode. I had hoped it might investigate Catherine Rose's Scottish lineage, probably not enough time/interest. I wonder if Larry looked into it further himself.
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Hi,
I suspect Larry Lamb's sister may have already done quite a bit research as soon as her mother received the adoption papers. But it was a good programme - a far more genealogical programme than a lot of the others with the twists and turns which reflect the experience of genealogy. It looks as if Catherine could possibly have been half Jewish from what other posters have said.
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Jewish father it would seem not Jewish mother otherwise no need to have the long conversion process she did.