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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: romangirl on Wednesday 31 August 11 16:06 BST (UK)

Title: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Wednesday 31 August 11 16:06 BST (UK)
 :)Hy does anyone know the name of Large Estate in Golden Grove. I know that it  is unused and has been for many years, apparently it had started to be refurbished but they ran out of money. I am asking as my mother-in-laws father was a groom domestic there and I wondered if there is anyway to find out when he started working there as he came from Hampton Bishop. He was on census 1901 living in Old Toll Gate Golden Grove Llandybie. He lived there till he died in 1917.                                                          I am stuck with marriage for him, cant find one anywhere, and thought maybe this would perhaps help move me on a bit ???    Kind Regards   Romangirl
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: bevbee on Wednesday 31 August 11 16:12 BST (UK)
Golden Grove Mansion. They were trying to raise money to make it into a place for traumatised servicemen - unfortunately it didn't happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Grove,_Carmarthenshire

http://www.fundraising.co.uk/newswire/2009/12/21/golden-grove-mansion-appeal

There is a photo of some of the staff in about 1881 on this website. I don't know whether it helps.

http://www.griffithsfamilytree.com/ambrosegallery.html
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 August 11 16:18 BST (UK)
 Any names and ages would help. :)
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 August 11 16:22 BST (UK)
The Pall Mall Gazette (London, England), Thursday, February 22, 1877
Death of Viscountess Emlyn at Golden Grove Carmarthenshire Feb 18.

The Bristol Mercury and Daily Post Monday, May 30, 1898;
In Westminster Abbey wedding to take place of Viscount Emlyn of Stackpole Court, Pembroke, Golden Grove ,Carmarthen and Cawdor Castle, Nairn and Joan Emily Mary Thynne.

A clue to who lived there  :) Emlyn family
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: bevbee on Wednesday 31 August 11 16:31 BST (UK)
One of my own recent photos.

Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Wednesday 31 August 11 16:37 BST (UK)
 ;D HY all sorry I forgot to say his name was Thomas Henry Walker and thanks to everyone who answered and so quickly!!  Thank you for photo and information on Estate.I know their first child was also thomas henry Walker 1893 so he was working there then!      Do you think there would be records of staff??  Regards  Romangirl.
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 August 11 17:21 BST (UK)
I can`t find him in 1901, can you give more details, his  age , place of birth,  same for his wife
The  census ref if possible , then I`ll try to find more about him
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 August 11 17:25 BST (UK)
OK got him
1901
Llandebie, Llanfihangel Aberbythych
Old Toll Gate Cottage, next schedule is Golden Grove Mansion.
Thomas Walker 39  groom  b Hampton Bishop
Elizabeth Walker 33 wife b Gloucester
Harry Walker 8 b Llandilsfaws
Gladys Walker 6 b Llanfihangel Aberbythych
Francis Walker 4 b "
Olive Walker 3 b "
Walter Walker 5 Months b "


The only people at Golden Grove mansion are both domestic housemaids.
Augusta Land 30
Ann Samuel 22
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: bevbee on Wednesday 31 August 11 17:26 BST (UK)
Also on the 1911 census.
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Wednesday 31 August 11 17:49 BST (UK)
 :) Thank you for this I have managed to get this also have both death certs for Elizabeth and Thomas but still no marriage!!! I have gone back to 1891 For Elizabeth( Silverthorn ) and according to census she was married ( James)        On the census it says there is about 8 years between them,                 but   on death certs
Elizabeth was 48 in 1917 and Thomas was 58 in 1918.????      I wondered if maybe he,s been married before but I cannot find anything on him at all not even birth cert.
                         Regards Romangirl
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 August 11 17:55 BST (UK)
:) Thank you for this I have managed to get this also have both death certs for Elizabeth and Thomas but still no marriage!!! I have gone back to 1891 For Elizabeth( Silverthorn ) and according to census she was married ( James)        On the census it says there is about 8 years between them,                 but   on death certs
Elizabeth was 48 in 1917 and Thomas was 58 in 1918.????      I wondered if maybe he,s been married before but I cannot find anything on him at all not even birth cert.
                         Regards Romangirl

Was Silverthorn her married  name and she was married to James Silverthorn ,
 or was she married to a James Walker ?  with maiden name Silverthorn from a childs bith certificate I presume .
Again full census refences details will help.

Is this her .
Births Sep 1869
Silverthorn Elizabeth B. Bedminster 5c 732
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Wednesday 31 August 11 18:06 BST (UK)
 :) Hy sorry about confusion Elizabeth,s maiden name was Silverthorn B- Leicester 1870
Parents Luke Silverthorn and  Jane Withers
Luke died aged 24 and on 1891 census its says Elizabeth Louisa  married name. James
She was living with her mother Jane Silverthorn- widow  in Iron Acton Gloucestershire and then she,s in
Golden Grove Llandybie in 1893!!!!! with Thomas Henry Walker.
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 August 11 18:19 BST (UK)
RG12; Piece: 1997; Folio 104; Page 13;

1891
Jane Silverthorn wid  49 laundress b Iron  Acton,
Elizabeth L Silverthorn   James,  Marr  20 b  Leicestershire
 
 
 Damned Anc*** they have transcribed her as Silverthorn even though she is M and  a James.  ::)

 Now the thing is, in 1901 Elizabeth is born Gloucestershire, and here she is born Leicestershire.
Have you got a child birth certificate to confirm it is her.
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: bevbee on Wednesday 31 August 11 18:36 BST (UK)
Did Thomas go on to have 14 children? The reason I ask, is because my Grandmother used to talk about a family she remembered with 14 children living in the Toll Gate who used to sit one on each stair to eat their meals.  :o

Bev.
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Wednesday 31 August 11 18:48 BST (UK)
Jane Withers was born in Iron Acton Gloucester 1850 and the census ref is RG12/1997
She married Luke Silverthorn Dec qtr 1868 page 353  in Chiping sodbury on census 1891 she was 49
and lived at 8 The Green Iron Acton   regards Romangirl
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 August 11 18:50 BST (UK)
Also on the 1911 census.

This should say how many years married, children born to that date and how many died, any little clue to find them, so far I`m struggling . ::)
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Wednesday 31 August 11 18:55 BST (UK)
 ;D Hy  Bevbee yes they did have 14 children, I dont think they would have had a table big enough to seat them all. I wonder if its the same family?   romangirl
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: bevbee on Wednesday 31 August 11 18:56 BST (UK)
Quote
Grin Hy  Bevbee yes they did have 14 children, I dont think they would have had a table big enough to seat them all. I wonder if its the same family?   romangirl

Yes, in that case, it must be the same family.  ;)
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 August 11 19:02 BST (UK)
1871 Class: RG10; Piece: 3248; Folio: 17; Page: 28
Ashby de la Zouch Leicestershire
Luke Silverthorn 23
Jane Silverthorn 29 Warmley, Gloucestershire
Fredrick Silverthorn 2
Elizabeth Silverthorn 6 Months , Leicester, Leicestershire

1881 Class: RG11; Piece: 2512; Folio: 117; Page: 6
Jane Silverthorn 39 wid Almondsbury, Gloucestershire
Fredrick Silverthorn 12 Warmley, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Silverthorn 10 b Leicester
Harriet Silverthorn 8 b Carlise, Cumberland
 
 
 
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Wednesday 31 August 11 19:03 BST (UK)
 :)Hy wilcoxen The 1911 census says they were married 20 yrs but it also says Thomas was 61 in 1911 and on his death cert in 1918 he was 58 it must have been a mistake, also they had 9 children up till then but had 5
more up till 1913.     the thing im struggling with is no marriage cert for thomas and elizabeth!!!!             regards romangirl
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 August 11 19:47 BST (UK)
Free BMD  has   this one in 1913
Births Jun 1913   
Walker  Madeline L S ,  MMN Silverthorn,   Llandilofawr  11a 2752

This is a mystery  ::)
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Wednesday 31 August 11 20:25 BST (UK)
:D   yes she  was Elizabeth,s  daughter Madeline Lavinia S Walker and she was born 17 May 1913
she was the youngest child, her mother died in 1917 and father died in 1918  and I agree it is a mystery!!       regards Romangirl
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Wednesday 31 August 11 21:34 BST (UK)
;) Hy the other thing i  found on 1911 census again Elizabeth is stated as coming from Leicester.
This just gets more mysterious by the minute!!!          regards Romangirl
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: Morganllan on Wednesday 31 August 11 22:41 BST (UK)
Hello  :)

There's a photograph of the Cottage on People's Collection Wales:

http://www.peoplescollectionwales.co.uk/item/6907-tollgate-cottage-golden-grove

Kind Regards
Morgan
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Thursday 01 September 11 10:44 BST (UK)
;D Morganllan  Thank you so much for this, this is very interesting, I wish we,d have known about this as we were in Wales for a family visit, two weeks ago.  I will  have a look next time were in Wales, we live in Scotland. Kind Regards Romangirl
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: bevbee on Thursday 01 September 11 17:41 BST (UK)
Regarding the photo of the Toll Gate, the 1911 cottage was extended in second half of 1980/early 1990s to include the inner two floor extension.

B.
 
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 01 September 11 18:42 BST (UK)
I spotted on Free BMD that there  were quite a few Silverthorns in the Bedwellty distict.
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Thursday 01 September 11 20:15 BST (UK)
 :) Hy Bevbee thanks for info on house, I wonder where they all slept? If it was a cottage it wouldve been small.  Regards Romangirl.
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Thursday 01 September 11 20:23 BST (UK)
 :) Hy Wilcoxon  Maybe they were relations its such a puzzle. I did find a Marriage for an Elizabeth
James marriage Llandilofawr 1891 on ancestry. Thought maybe as she was called  Elizabeth James on 1891 census with her mother, it might be her. 11a 1422 but dont know who spouse was.
                             Regards Romangirl
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 01 September 11 20:29 BST (UK)
 Could have been a Jones  ::)
Marriages Jun 1891   
James  Elizabeth    Llandilofawr  11a 1422   
James  Mary     Llandilofawr  11a 1422   
Jones  Daniel     Llandilofawr  11a 1422   
Jones  Thomas     Llandilofawr  11a 1422   
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Thursday 01 September 11 20:36 BST (UK)
;D I'm beginning to think that perhaps they were not  married at all. Its a possability I suppose!
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: romangirl on Tuesday 13 September 11 20:53 BST (UK)
;D Hy I would just like to thank you all for your input for this search and a very big thank you especially     to Bevbee and her Dad for all their help, absolute Stars!!! Their info was invaluable. 
                                           Very Kind Regards Romangirl.
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: anthonygos on Wednesday 12 October 11 23:33 BST (UK)
Re Estate Golden Grove, Golden Grove ( Gelli Aur ) is not in Llandybie its in or near Llangathen
Title: Re: Name of Estate in Golden Grove.Llandybie
Post by: Morganllan on Thursday 13 October 11 00:36 BST (UK)
Hello anthonygos  :)

Tollgate Cottage, Golden Grove, is at a crossroads on the B4300 Ffairfach to Llanarthney road. I think there's a road to Golden Grove (and Gelli Aur Country Park) alongside it.

Kind Regards
Morgan