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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: Hannahville on Tuesday 30 August 11 17:15 BST (UK)
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Trying to trace family of David Grierson who died at Crossgills on 1/11/1860. His wife Janet Rome died at Bowerhouse near Ruthwell ( Dumfriesshire) on 2/3/1871. Known son David Grierson died 11/2/1900 at Troqueer Stewartry of Kirkcudbright
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Trying to trace family of David Grierson who died at Crossgills on 1/11/1860
I can't see any connection to Lancashire here - have you posted on the wrong board? I can ask the moderator to move it for you if you have
Which family? His children from his marriage or his parentage?
If parentage - his death cert will give you that info
Some or all of his children can be found via a parent search on the IGI
PARENT SEARCH ON IGI
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
Input fathers name and surname and mothers christian name and maiden surname
REGION – select British Isles from the menu
COUNTRY – select Scotland
COUNTY (will appear when you select COUNTRY) – select whichever matches what you know about the family
Click SEARCH
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There is a connection to Lancashire - there is a Crossgills east of Lancaster.
However there is also a Crossgills at Ruthwell in Dumfriesshire so we need to know which one. I am presuming, like CaroleW that you should have posted on the Scotland board?
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There is a connection to Lancashire - there is a Crossgills east of Lancaster.
But no death in 1860 in that area for a David Grierson. I had an advantage as I have just answered another David Grierson query from Hannah on the Dumfries board
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Many thanks for your help. Must be Crossgills at Ruthwell. Memorial inscription in Ruthwell churchyard has David Grierson died at Crossgills on 1/11/1860 but could not find this on Scottish People Website. His wife Janet Rome died at Bowerhouses Cottages near Ruthwell on 2/3/71
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Which David was he? The 1851 has 2 in Ruthwell - both with a wife called Janet
One was b 1775 Ruthwell and the other 1803 Manchester
died at Crossgills on 1/11/1860 but could not find this on Scottish People Website
I did a basic search using his name only and year 1860 county = Dumfries - I got one match
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David Grierson died Nov 1 1860 at Crossgills, parish of Ruthwell, aged 57. His parents were David Grierson, joiner, dec and Mary maiden surname Edgar, dec
So, it looks as if the 1803 Manchester fits best.
gnu
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David Grierson was my 3 x great-grandfather. He too was a joiner. Further death info says he died from "consumption, many years". The informant of his death was his son, David.
David and Janet had 9 children: Helen (1827-1906), Elisabeth (b.1829), David (1832-1900), Margaret (b.1835), Thomas (b.1837), Archibald (1842-1908), John (1844-1931), Andrew (b.1847) and Mary (b.1850). All 9 children's births are recorded on one page in the Ruthwell parish birth register, although there are 3 or 4 places of birth mentioned (all very pale and almost illegible).
Hope this helps :)
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I'm not sure if you have this but family search has this baptism:
Lloyd Street Presbyterian Chapel-NC, Manchester
Birth 20 Feb 1803 Baptism 17 Mar 1803 - David Grearson
Parents - David Grearson and Mary
This ties in with the death cert age and parents.
gnu
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Thanks gnu, I didn't have any other info on his birth at all, other than it was in Manchester! That's a great help 8)
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Just thinking on this ~ as it was a Presbyterian Chapel, it suggests that one or other or both of the parents were possibly Scottish.
I checked for a marriage for David and Mary but only in England. It might be worth doing a trawl for bapt/marriages for the two in Scotland - maybe Dumfriesshire as Grierson is a Dum/Gal name :)
I'll have a look later if you've not found anything :)
gnu
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Lol! I'm slightly ahead of you with that .. but only because I found an elderly, widowed Mary Grierson in a Manchester census, which said that she was born in Scotland. Did a wee hunt and found a Mary Edgar, born in Cockpool, Ruthwell with parents named Thomas Edgar & Helen Dickson, whose age ties in pretty closely with the elderly Mary. Coincidentally (or not) both Thomas and Helen are two of the names David Grierson has given his children ...
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And here are two MIs from Ruthwell Kirkyard
1.
In Memory of
Thomas EDGAR, late tenant in Aiket, and Elder in this Parish, who died 12th February 1790 age 45 years
Also Helen DICKSON, his spouse, who died 22nd May 1783 age 35 years
Also William EDGAR, their son, who succeeded his father as tenant in Aiket, and died 25th November 1801 age 33 years
Also Margaret RITCHIE, his spouse, who died 30th December 1830 age 67 years
Also Mary EDGAR, daughter of above Thomas EDGAR, who died at Thwaitehead 16th January 1836 age 60 years
2.
In Memory of
Robert DIXON, who died at Clarencefield August 1824 age 50 years
Also Mary EDGAR, his spouse, who died September 1829 age 57 years
Also John DIXON, their grandson, who died in Manchester September 1825 age 2 years
Also Janet DIXON, their granddaughter, who died on [--] April 1816 age 6 years
Children to their son William DIXON.
I hope that all fits with your other research data.
Cheers.
Sy
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Gravestones with Dickson (Dixon) and Edgar on them do occur elsewhere in Dumfries & Galloway:
Here is one in Sanquhar Kirkyard
James EDGAR and Janet Braidwood
Thomas EDGAR their infant, son died A.D. 1839
Janet DICKSON his mother, died 2nd April 1847 aged 83 years
Also of the said James EDGAR, late saddler, Sanquhar, who died at Launceston, Van Diemens Land, on the 3rd February 1854 aged 55 years
Also Janet BRAIDWOOD, or EDGAR, who died at Newmains on 17th February 1865 aged 62 years,
and was interred in Hereathers burying ground at Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire
and another in Whithorn St Ninians Kirkyard
Erected by Elizabeth DICKSON
In Memory of
Archibald McWILLIAM, her husband, who died 12th Novr 1832 aged 77 years
The said Elizabeth DICKSON, died 27th August 1839 aged 80 years
In Memory of
James EDGAR, who died 28th March 1845 aged 61 years
Also Agnes HAINING, his spouse, who died 28th January 1872 aged 79 years
Also infant son of Jessie WALLACE, who died May 1856 aged 4 months
Also Isabella WALLACE, her daughter, who died 29th January 1879 aged 26 years
Also the said Jessie WALLACE, who died 7th April 1897 aged 78 years
Over to you.
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Returning to David Grierson, Crossgills, Ruthwell.
Herei his MI in Ruthwell Kirkyard
David GRIERSON, joiner, who died at Crossgills 1st November 1860 age 57 years
Also Janet ROME, his wife, who died at Bowerhouses Cottages 2nd March 1871 age 67 years
Also James, their son, who died at Crossgills 23rd March 1852 age 12 years
Also John CARRUTHERS, their son in law, who died at Bowerhouses Cottage 29th December 1891 age 69 years
Also Helen GRIERSON, wife of John CARRUTHERS, who died at Bowerhouses 21st September 1906 age 79 years
Make what you can of that lot!
Cheers,
Sy
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Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to find all that info. Lots for me to get my teeth into now and I didn't have young James Grierson in my list of David's children, so now they are 10 :o
Thanks again,
June
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I've found a little more info on David Grierson's father. He died, aged 32yrs, on December 13th 1802 (2 months before his son's birth), of Smallpox, in 'Hart Court, Bloom Street, Manchester'. His grave was purchased by James Grierson, Cousin to the deceased.
This ties in with David Jnr's birth record, which gives his home address as No.59 Hart Street, Manchester. Google maps shows Bloom Street as a larger road, Hart Street is attached to it and consists of only a square courtyard of houses with a narrow alleyway running into another road - thus its alternative name of 'Hart Court' may have arisen?
Also, I would swear that David Jnr's birth record actually says he was born on 28TH February 1803, not the 20th.
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Certainly says 20th February on the New Family Search site.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0eue/
gnu
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Yip, it does. But here's a snip of the written document ...
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It does look like an 8.
You got that quickly after I found it yesterday, didn't you ;D
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Yes I did! ;)
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Thanks to all. Have now got the main line from David (1770-1802). Cannot trace the family of David Grierson (1832-1900) apart from his widow Jacobina and my grandfather James Carruthers Grierson-any information would be most welcome
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Hello again,
David and Jacobina had 7 children (as far as I know). They were -
James (your grandfather)
Janet b. c1857
John b. c1858
David c. v1860
Mary Ann b. 1863 She married a William Gilchrist and they had 3 children: William C Gilchrist b. about 1898, Mary H Gilchrist b. about 1900, and David Grierson Gilchrist 1903-10/09/1937. In 1901 the family was enumerated living at 37 Bank Street, Dumfries with 2 oldest children. Her husband was a grocer.
Elizabeth b. c1867
Edgar b. c1871 (enumerated in 1891 census. age 19, living as a Boarder at 234 Cumberland St, Govan, Glasgow. Job title Engine Fitter's Labourer.
Children's names found in various census records. Additional info - in 1861 & 1871 David and Jacobina were living at Piehills (aka Pyehills), Ruthwell, where David was working as a Shepherd and then as an Ag. Labourer.
In the 1881 & 1891 census records, David and Jacobina have moved to Station Cottage, Kirkgunzeon and David is described as a Railway Surfaceman.
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Thanks JunoH this is a great help. I am interested in Edgar Grierson as my father claimed that the edgars who farmed at Glenhowan near Glencaple Dumfries were his cousins. I haven,t found any close connection but we used to visit them quite a lot in the 70's and 80's. There was quite a large family of them but they never married and all are now dead.
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Just when I seemed to be making progress I have discovered that Mary Ann Grierson born1863: Elizabeth Grierson born 1867 and Edgar Grierson born 1871 all have mother shown as Robina Grierson nee Carruthers and not Jacobina so think that they are not connected with the David Grierson that I am researching.
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Ah ... BUT the 1861 Scotland census has her listed as "Jacobina Grierson", born Ruthwell, wife of David Grierson, living at "Piehills", Ruthwell and then the 1871 census names her as "Robina Grierson", born Ruthwell, wife of David Grierson, living at "Pyehills", Ruthwell. Coincidence? I don't think so - the same birthplace, same husband, same children and same house?
Also, Edgar's birth record does say 'Robina' and that she married David Grierson on ? July 1854 at Bowerhouse. Checking the marriage record for 9th July 1854, it says Jacobina Carruthers, residing at Mount ??? Manse, Mouswald married David Grierson of Crossgills, Ruthwell in the parish of Ruthwell. So I reckon Jacobina was also known as 'Robina'.
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Hi :)
I thought I'd remembered seeing a Robina/Jacobina mix on here before:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,251911.msg1415660.html#msg1415660
Not sure if it helps but it shows that it did happen.
gnu
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gnu, you are a wee gem. Imagine remembering a thread from 2007??!
Interesting to read the story about why daughters may have been named Jacobina. In the case of Jacobina Carruthers, it appears she was named after her grandmother, Jacobina Byers, who was born around 1745-1750.
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Thought I would just do a search of the DGFHS database of twenty-four thousand MIs to see how many hits I got on Jacobina and Robina as a forename.
Result = Jacobina 11 MIs : Robina 78 MIs
May be of interest -- then again maybe NOT !
Sy
PS
Here is the Ruthwell MI for Jacobina BYERS but you probably have it already:
In Memory of
Jacobina BYERS, spouse to William CARRUTHERS in Denbiegate, who died 15th April 1794 age 43 years
Also her grandchildren:
David BUCHAN and Henry CLARK, who died in infancy
Also William CARRUTHERS, who died at Bowerhouse Cottage 7th January 1824 age 77 years
Also Thomas CARRUTHERS, their son, who died 9th October 1850 age 78 years
And here is a second Jacobina in Ruthwell.
The Carruthers family name and Bowerhouse Cottage also mentioned, so it looks connected back to your intial post.
Hope this doesn't muddy any waters for you.
In Memory of Charlotte CARRUTHERS, who died at Bowerhouse Cottage 29th April 1852 age 77 years
Also Jacobina POPPLEWELL, her daughter, who died at Dalswinton 24th June 1864 age 64 years
And of Mary CARRUTHERS, who died at Collin 1st June 1856 age 74 years
Also of Elizabeth CARRUTHERS, who died at Glencaple Quay 10th December 1859 age 77 years
Also Margaret CARRUTHERS, who died at Bowerhouse Cottage 22nd April 1821 age 39 years
Also John CARRUTHERS, who died at Bowerhouse Cottage 12th September 1824 age 52 years
Also David CARRUTHERS, who died at Bowerhouses 5th November 1893 age 18 months
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Thanks JunoH. Agree that Jacobina and Robina appear to be the same as too much of a coincidence otherwise. The manse mentioned in your email is Mount Kedar at Mouswald near Dumfries Home at one time of Dr Henry Duncan founder of the Savings Bank movement.
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Have just found a clincher re Jacobina and Robina Issue
David Grierson son of David and Jacobina Grierson is shown as son of Jacobina on his birth certificate in 1859 but on his death certificate in 1870 is shown as son of David and Robina
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Perfect. Thank you! :D
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David Grierson and Jacobina Grierson-daughter Grace Hill Grierson born 1861-died 1870-death certificate mother" Robina"
Cannot trace any birth record for my grandfather James Carruthers Grierson born 1854-1855. Not on Scottish People-If born in 1854 before or after parent marriage July 1854? Any suggestions would be welcome
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I wish I had better news, but I can't find anything either :'(
Even searching for James Carruthers - in case he was registered in that name before they were married - using wildcards for the spelling ... nothing.
Also tried looking on scotsorigins http://www.origins.net/ScotsOrigins/SOSearchBC.aspx but nothing matched. Tried inputting just his mother's name (as both Jacobina and Robina Carruthers), again nothing.
On the plus side (for me) I found another 3 *offspring I never knew about, and also found that some of their birth records had their Mother's name as Jacobina and others had Robina. Like so:-
1856 Janet (Jacobina)
1857 John (Robina)
1859 David (Jacobina)
1861 Grace Hill* (Jacobina)
1863 Mary Ann (Robina)
1865 William* (Robina)
1867 Elisabeth (Robina)
1869 Wilhelmina* (Robina)
1871 Edgar (Robina)
Also, given that Jacobina was working at Ingliston Farm, New Abbey in 1851 (a spooky coincidence for me, as its the same farm where my Grandfather died in 1939 while ploughing the fields there), I checked Kirkcudbrightshire for James' birth, and also Lochmaben area as that's where David Grierson was working in 1851. Once again, zilch. :-[
Hope someone else has better luck than I did.
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Found a little more info that ties MARY EDGAR from this MI -
"In Memory of Thomas EDGAR, late tenant in Aiket, and Elder in this Parish, who died 12th February 1790 age 45 years
Also Helen DICKSON, his spouse, who died 22nd May 1783 age 35 years
Also William EDGAR, their son, who succeeded his father as tenant in Aiket, and died 25th November 1801 age 33 years
Also Margaret RITCHIE, his spouse, who died 30th December 1830 age 67 years
Also Mary EDGAR, daughter of above Thomas EDGAR, who died at Thwaitehead 16th January 1836 age 60 years"
to David Grierson. In the 1841 Ruthwell census, the following were living at "Thwaite Head", Ruthwell:-
David Grierson, age 38, (Joiner), Thwaite Head
Jannet Grierson, age 38, Thwaite Head
Hellen Grierson, age 13 - Thwaite Head
Elizabeth Grierson, age 11, Thwaite Head
David Grierson, age 8, Thwaite Head
Margaret Grierson, age 5, Thwaite Head
Thomas Grierson, age 3, Thwaite Head
James Grierson, age 1, Thwaite Head
And for some strange reason, that info had never come up in my searches before and I've only just found it by chance on another website! ;D
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In case anyone is still on the hunt for Edgar Grierson b. 1871 Ruthwell, I now have his death record:-
He died 15 Feb 1930 at Kilmaurs, Ayrshire. Age '56yrs', Single. Railway Storeman. Usual Residence 38 Dean Street, Kilmarnock.
Parents: David Grierson, Railway Surfaceman (deceased) & Jacobina Grierson MS Carruthers (deceased).
Edgar was 'found dead on railway'. Last seen alive 8.45pm on railway between Kilmaurs Station and the Creamery.
Informant: Robert McWhirter, Police Constable, Kilmaurs.
The RCE (Register of Corrected Entries) report attached to the file records a verdict that he was 'Instantaneously killed by being struck by a passing train (fracture of the skull)'. It doesn't speculate as to whether it was accidental or otherwise.
The records have him as 3 years younger than he would have been, but fortunately I got desperate and tried 3 years either side of his birth year.
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Thanks for the information regarding Edgar which I did not have. In case you have not got this information re the others:- John Grierson (1857-1930) general labourer
David Grierson (1859-1870) died of diptheria
Grace Hill Grierson ( 1861-1870) died of diptheria
Mary Ann Grierson (1863-1942) Married William Gilchrist-grocer