RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Surrey Lookup Requests => Surrey => England => Surrey Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Keith59 on Saturday 27 August 11 23:06 BST (UK)
-
Please can anyone help?
I have been doing my tree on ancestry.co for over 7yrs now but have come across a small hiccup,
My 5th Great Granfather Richard Woolger (b)1746 Ockham (d) 1810 Ockham, married a Maria ?
Every one is saying that her last name was Sink, But I have been in contact with the Sink family relatives,
and Maria Sink did come from Ockham and married twice,
But not to my 5th Great Grandfather Richard Woolger,
On the Marriage Banns for my 4th Great Grandfather
Richard Woolger (b)25 Aug 1782 Ockham, (d)9 Apr 1855 Wisley, married
Mary Bullen (b) 2 Sep 1781 Ockham (d) 2 Aug 1829 Ockham, but on the marriage records it stats Buller?
At the bottom left it shows the signerhers of my 4th Great Grandparents,
and on the right it shows the witness as Richard Woolger & Maria Bullen?,
So I need to know if my 5th great grandmother was a Bullen & If my 4th Great Grandmother was a Bullen or Buller, and if your confused please think how i fill,
Many Thanks for looking and any help.
Keith59
-
Have seen your other thread re. spelling of the surname Woolger. As was pointed out to you, most people were illiterate in those days and any surname was written down and spelt at the whim of the cleric involved who would spell it as it sounded to him. I note in the Ockham records that Woolger is spelt in a variety of ways.
You state that Richard Woolger was married to a Maria and that others say her name was Sink.
However, having found the marriage and baptisms of children her name was Mary and not Maria.
Marriage on familysearch and transcribed as follows:
Rich. Wolger married Mary Sink 14/9/1778 Ockham
The following baptisms all show the mother as Mary and not Maria:
James Woolger bp.22/11/1778 Ockham, parents Richard and Mary
Mary Wolger bp.14/1/1781 ditto
Richard Wolger bp.25/8/1782 ditto
John Woolger bp.20/8/1786 ditto
William Wolgar bp.2/8/1789 ditto
Jane Wolgar bp.6/6/1791 Ockham, dau. of Richard (mothers name not shown)
As to whether Bullen or Buller - I would say it is definitely Bullen. There was a large Bullen family in Ockham but no Buller's. Indeed, the marriage entry on Familysearch shows Rich. Woolger married Mary Bullen 28/12/1807 Ockham. If you have copies of the documents it may be that the last letter of her surname was just badly written on one of them or has faded slightly with the passage of time.
Annette
-
Hi Annette7,
Thanks for the info and help yes they couldn't spell to save there lives, lol..
Yes my 4th Great Grandfather Richard Woolger 25 Aug 1782 - 9 Apr 1855
Did get married to Mary Bullen 2 Sep 1781 - 2 Aug 1829 married on 28 Dec 1807,
But it's was really the first Richard Woolger 1746 - 1810 married to Maria ?
As someone ales on Ancestry.co has Maria Sink from Ockham down as married to two other Gentleman!
and not My 5th Great Grandfather,Could there have been two Maria Sink's??.
Or could he just have the wrong Maria sink down in his tree!!,
I just wont to get it Right,
I am also having trouble finding any think before my 5th Great Grandparent's.
Sorry to be a pain, looks like i need more help than I fort.
Many Thanks for all your Time and your Help.
Keith :)
-
Hi
On what records do you have Richard Woolger married to a Maria?
Annette has given a marriage of a Richard Woolger in Ockham in 1778 to a Mary Sink and children baptised to that couple, parents consistently named as Richard and Mary.
Mary Sink married Richard Woolger
MARY SINK
RICH WOLGER
Marriage: 14 SEP 1778 Ockham, Surrey
and Maria Sink married Richard Tickner
MARIA SINK
RICH TICKNER
Marriage: 08 NOV 1777 Ockham, Surrey
MARIA SINK
Christening: 24 FEB 1759 Ockham, Surrey
Father: JAS SINK
Mother: JANE
There is a possible burial for Richard Tickner aged 23 in Ockham 11th July 1780
After Richard Tickner's death there is a possible remarriage in Ockham for Maria (the register would have to be checked to see whether this Maria was a widow)
MARIA TICKNER
GEO STILES
Marriage: 15 OCT 1781 Ockham, Surrey
There is a claim here she is buried in West Clandon (there is certainly a burial there for a Maria Styles 7th October 1796). There are children baptised in West Clandon - parents George and Maria Styles. West Clandon is about 4 miles from Ockham.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/sink/messages/375.html
Is there any evidence that Mary Sink, the wife of Richard Woolger, like Maria Sink was born and baptised in Ockham and (according to trees on the internet) buried there in 1835? I can see no evidence for the burial in Ockham. There appears to be a possible burial in Wisley (about 3 miles away) of a Mary Woolyer on 4th January 1835 aged 80? If that is her and her age is accurate on her burial then her birth year would be circa 1754/5.
Regards
Valda
-
Hello Valda,
Just taken form Ancestry.co,
According to the IGI James SINK and his wife Jane had the following children baptized in the parish of Ockham, Surrey England:
Maria 24 Feb 1759
Sarah 2 May 1761
John 24 Sep 1763
Charlotte 3 Mar 1765
John - 30 Oct 1768
Information gleaned from various sources indicates that:
- Maria married Richard Tickner in Ockham in 1777 and that Richard died in 1780 without leaving any children;
- The widowed Maria Tickner married George Stiles (Styles) in Ockham in 1781 and died in 1796 being buried at West Clandon, Surrey. Children from this marriage, all baptized in West Clandon, were: George (1786), Richard (1789), William (1792), and Betty (1795)
Thanks
Laurie
Dunedin, NZ
You can see my Predicament!!! nothing i find seems to add up
Regards
Keith
-
Hi again Valda,
Just how many times did this woman get married? lol..
Thanks
Keith
-
I don't know how Valda and I can make it any clearer.
Richard Woolger's wife was a Mary Sink, not a Maria Sink. Although sites like familysearch tend to bring up entries for both names, as with Ann and Hannah, they were generally 2 separate names.
So you need to be searching for a Mary Sink, not a Maria.
Ignore other trees, forget about Maria Sink as she's clearly not the one.
Annette
-
Hi
Sorry the pennys just droped, it takes time, but i am 52 lol...
I'v got it now Mary not maria,
Many Many Thanks
Keith
-
Hi
Two different women. Two different ages and years of birth.
Maria Sink 1759-1796
Baptised Ockham parents James and Jane Sink (as Maria)
Buried West Clandon 1796 as Maria (no age given in register)
Maried first Richard Tickner 1777 Ockham as Maria Sink (spinster)
Married second George Styles 1781 Ockham as Maria Tickner (widow)
Children baptised West Clandon 1786-1795 - mother's name Maria
Mary Sink circa 1754/5-1835
baptism and birth place unknown
Married Richard Woolger 1778 Ockham as Mary Sink (spinster)
Buried Wisley 1835 aged 80 as Mary
Children baptised Ockham 1778-1791 - mother's name Mary
When widows remarried they did not marry in their maiden names they married in their then legal surname which was their deceased husband's. The marriage entries in the Ockham register will show whether the 1777, 1778 and 1781 marriages were for widows or spinsters.
Regards
Valda
-
Hello Valda,
Thank you for the information can now put my tree right, had the wrong sink down,
And don't laugh but just found that i also have a Martha Sink 1752 Ockham in my tree married to
Edward Plumbridge 1756 Ockham could the two Sink be related, Sorry bet your fed up with me,
But Thanks
Keith
-
Hi
All the trees on Ancestry have Richard Woolger married to Maria Sink despite the evidence from the parish register stating otherwise.
You can use this website to help you search just the Ockham baptism and marriage entries on the IGI (International Genealogical Index) now also know as Family Search.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountySurrey.htm#O
There were 18 Sink marriages and 56 baptisms (no Marthas) or Edward Plumbridges.
There is a burial for a Martha Plumbridge 19th February 1823 aged 70 (birth circa 1752/3) and an Edward Plumbridge aged 67 (birth circa 1755/6), 7th December 1823 at St Mary Magdalen Ripley so I'm assuming from the dates you give you mean this couple.
The IGI is far from a complete index for Surrey baptisms and marriages (presuming they were baptised in Surrey). West Surrey Family History Society have indexes of baptisms not found on the IGI.
http://www.wsfhs.org/cds.htm
Regards
Valda
-
Hello Valda
Yes it could well be Ripley,
Have Attached Image of wedding at Ockham for you to check out for me please'sss,
Thanks Keith
-
I note that on familysearch (submitted entry only) and the ancestry trees that James Sink is shown to have married a Jane Briggs 1745 West Horsley, Surrey (no full date given).
If that is indeed so, then there is a timespan of 1745 to 1759 (when 1st known child Maria born in Ockham) when any number of children could have born including your Mary and the Martha you mention.
I can find no West Horsley parish records online before 1777 so it may be that your answers lie in West Horsley parish records.
Annette
-
Hi
Since Edward was of the parish of Ripley at the time of his marriage (marriages by tradition usually occurred in the woman's parish of residency) then the Ripley burials are very likely to be them.
The West Surrey FHS CD ' Surrey baptisms not on the IGI' includes
West Horsley 1606-1771
or you can order and view the parish registers on microfilm from a Family History Centre if you can't get to Surrey History Centre.
Regards
Valda
-
Hi Valda
Thank you will get in touch with them on Tuesday, I know its a lot to keep asking of you but
Just one more thing? Then I'll stop pestering you, How do i get past 1746 to find The father of my 5th Great Grandfather, as i can't find any think on him "Richard Woolger 1746-1810(no Birth) brothers,sister nothing,
I know I have asked a lot of you but this will be the last Promise.
Regards
Keith
-
Any of these any good?
James Sink son of James 1746 West Horsley
Jane Sink daughter of James 1748 West Horsley
Ann Sink daughter of James 1750 West Horsley
Betty Sink daughter of James 1752 West Horsley
Mary Sink daughter of James and Jenny 1754 West Horsley
Jan
-
Could this be your Richard?
Richard Woolgar son of John and Elizabeth 1745 West Horsley
-
Hello Valda
Yes it could be i am only going on what i was told by some one ales but she has got a lot of info wrong,
I have him down as 1746 Ockham but it may not be right,
and West Horsley would tie in with Mays Sink from west Horsley,
Your an angel Thank you very very much for all your hard work and time god bless you.
With all my Thanks
Keith x
-
Hello Jan,
Thank you for the infomation on the Sink family of West Horsley,
Regards
Keith
-
Hello Groom
Many thanks will Look at Richard Woolger son of John Woolger &Elizabeth,
And try to make a match with them,
Would love to hear about Any other info you may come accross, on the John woolger & Elizabeth
Many Thanks for your Help
Keith
-
Thanks to every one for all there help I have now closed this Topic,
Regards
Keith