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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: SCH2 on Friday 26 August 11 21:13 BST (UK)
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Hi there,
Following the death of my mother a couple of months ago, I feel very privileged to have come across a Bible belonging to William Snell, who was born 23 October 1833. The Snell family were my maternal Grandfather (Trevor Salathiel)'s mother (Mary Snell)'s family.
William has written that Ann Jones was his wife and then "I William Snell married Mrs Sarah Thomas, widow of the late David Thomas of the Red Bow (Cow? Dow?) Caerphilly at the register office Pontypridd on 5th day of May 1898."
"Mrs Sarah Snell died 21 day of May 1909 aged 74 years", which means that she was 63 when she married William.
I can only assume therefore that the 9 children mentioned (3 of whom died in infancy), who were born between 1859 and 1875 were all the children of William and Ann.
I am hopeful that some kind person may know something about the Red Bow (Cow? Dow?) and also be able to find the maiden names of the 2 wives.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Sue
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and also be able to find the maiden names of the 2 wives
Have you checked freebmd for a Snell/Jones marriage? A copy of the certificate will show whether Ann was also a widow when they married
Have you checked freebmd for a death for Ann? If she died after 1881 - have you checked the 1881 census for her birthyear and birthplace?
Have you checked for the 1898 marriage on freebmd? You would need to buy a copy of that cert to find her true maiden name - her fathers name and surname should be shown
www.freebmd.org.uk
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp
EDIT
1861 shows Ann b 1834 Lanvabon, Glamorgan - one child only aged 1yr so marriage late 1850's
1901 shows Sarah b 1835 Caerphilly
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Thank you. Carole
On FreeBMD I have found marriage in Sept qu 1858 Abergavenny 11a 75 between Ann Jones & William Snell. Not knowing the area I am unsure whether that covers the Lanvabon area or not.
More exciting is that I have found that 2 of the pages of the Bible, which are missing one of the corners were stuck together!
William had started on the front page and had then rewritten it on the next page, where he gives more information -
"Ann Jones wife of William Snell was born April 14th 1834. They were married at the parish Church of Bedwelty in the County of-----mouth on the 4th day June ---- by Edmund Leigh. ---Snell died December 17th ---- aged 61 years interred -----Martin Churchyard Caerphilly"
Sue
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Carole,
Do you recall whether the 1yr old on 1861 census was called John - "born the 15 day of July 1859"? Only the next one was Henry, born 16th April 1861, so I need to check what date the 1861 census was taken as it sounds as if Henry's birth was imminent at the time! :)
Sue
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Yes - the one year old was called John
The 1861 census was taken on the 7th April
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I have just checked the 1881 census and it shows:
William SNELL M Male 47 Caerleon, Monmouth, England Pesway Railway Inspector
Ann SNELL Wife M Female 46 Eglwysilan, Glamorgan, Wales
John SNELL Son U Male 21 Llanfabon, Glamorgan, Wales Railway Station Master
Henry SNELL Son U Male 19 Llanfabon, Glamorgan, Wales Railway Plate Layer
Thomas SNELL Son Male 14 Llanfabon, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
Mary SNELL Daur Female 11 Gelygaer, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
David C. SNELL Son Male 5 Gellygaer, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
Mary F. BOWEN Serv U Female 18 Llantrisant, Glamorgan, Wales General Serv ,
but I am now intrigued because the Bible entries do not show a Thomas (c 1867) at all! It has got:
John b.15th July 1859
Henry b.16th April 1861
Margret Ann b.13th Aug 1865 d.1st Nov 1863
Lewis b. 1st Oct 1864
James b.21st Jan 1869
A Mary b. 27th Nov 1869
Sarah b. 9th Feb 1872 d. 9th April 1873
William b. 12th Sept 1874 d. 5th Oct 1874
David Charles b. 27th Nov 1875
so I wonder what happened to Lewis and where did Thomas come from - possible he was Lewis Thomas I suppose, but William's entry does not show a 2nd name.
Regards
Sue
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1871 census for Gelligaer shows Ann's birthplace as Eglwysilan, Glamorganshire
Children were all born Llanfabon except Mary:
John 11
Henry 9
Lewis 6
James 4
Mary 1 b Gelligaer
RG10 Piece 5389 Folio 68 Page 4
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So Lewis & James were both there in 1871, but no Thomas. Curious!
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freebmd has births for Lewis in 1864 and James in 1867 - nothing for Thomas
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the Abergavenny registered marriage is correct for one taking place in Bedwellty at that time
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/abergavenny.html
Think you'll need the marriage cert to further back on Ann's side. There are baptisms for 2 different Ann Jones in St Martin's Eglwysilan on 4/5/1835, if indeed she was baptised there. Always the possibility her family could be non-conformist at this time in Wales.
William's baptism is transcribed here
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/caerleonbap1813-1837.htm
;)
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Aw thank you Carole, and yes, looking at the handwriting again, James 1867 makes sense, and gave Ann a bit of space too!
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I have just followed your baptism link - very interesting!!! Did my Great great grandfather have a twin sister called Sarah?..........and a brother called Thomas!!
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not a twin, they were baptised the same day, not born the same day or even in the same county according to the 1841 census
1841 Goldenye (?) Gate, Christchurch, Monmouthshire Ho107/745/8 folio 5 pg 1
James Snell 65 turnpike gate keeper
Martha 45
Martha 12
Sarah 10
William 8
Thomas 5
John 2
last 3 born in Monmouthshire, others not born in county
1851 Castle Mill, Llanhennock HO107/2451 folio 169 pg 10
Martha Snell head widow 50 laundress b. Oxford
Mary dau 28 laundress b. Middlesex, Bloomsbury
William son 18 gardener b. Caerleon
John son 12 b. Caerleon
Charles son 8 b. Caerleon
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Sorry for the delay in responding, Osprey, but that you very much for these census entries.
I had no idea that part of the Salathiel/Snell family came from Oxford & Bloomsbury. I think I have been looking for some of the family in the wrong counties, so this gives me something further to work on.
Is anybody able to enlighten me as to the whereabouts of Llanhennock, please?
Many thanks for your help.
Sue
I have just found this:
Llanhennock (Welsh: Llanhenwg) is a village in Monmouthshire, south east Wales, United Kingdom.
Llanhennock is located two miles north east of Caerleon and five miles south west of Usk.
Llanhennock is situated not far from the River Usk and is also close to Cwmbran [1].
and the family may have moved there after the death of James. Perhaps Goldenye Gate was a residence attached to his job as a turnpike keeper. SCH2
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details of the parish here
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Llanhennock/index.html
& map
http://www.british-towns.net/cy/level_4_display.asp?GetL3=12902
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Might be shear coincidence but there was a family called Snell and Salathiel living in my old home town , next street to each other in |Ystradyfodwg, (Rhondda)did they move there ??
Heddwch
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Hi Heddwch,
Wow, no this is NOT a coincidence!
My Grandfather was Trevor Salathiel and he had siblings Gwyneth & David Mervyn (k.a.Mervyn). Their parents were Mary Snell & David Thomas Salathiel & I think there had been another brother called Emlyn, who died. Their births were all registered Pontypridd. D.T. was quite a local personality and I believe he was the Mayor at one time and worked for Lloyd George. Gwyneth married Idris Williams and they stayed in Wales for quite a long time as Idris became Headmaster of the village school in Porthcawl. Trevor married Adeline Haines in 1927, by which time they were living in London and one of their 2 daughters was my mother, Olwen, who was evacuated back down to Porthcawl during the 2nd World War, to stay with her Aunt & Uncle Idris.
Since my mother passed away in June I have found all sorts of old photographs and books belonging to my Great Grandparents so I have a lot to look through.
Do you have any recollection of names? Dates etc.
I am feeling very excited at the thought that somebody may have actually met a Snell or a Salathiel!! I will have a look and see if I can find any addresses from my census records.
Thanks again
Sue
David Thomas Salathiel was born in 1872, registartion District Pontypridd, sub-district Ystradyfodwg and his parents, Rachel (nee Edwards) & Thomas, a colliery manager lived at Gilli Cottage Ystradyffodwg.
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Hello,
The Snell lived In Scott street, Tynewydd( Trehebert) Rhondda, the Salathiels lived in Eileen Place in Tynewydd.
The Snell ancestor goes to my local church I will find out her grandparents name and |I will ask locally regarding the christian names of the other family.
I will PM you my email address.
Kindest regards
Heddwch
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Thank you very much for your interest Heddwch.
I look forward to hearing from you and meanwhile I will try and dig out the names of any of my Great Grandparents' siblings and anything that I know about their families.
There is at least one very old photo at my Mother's house that is of the house that some of the family lived in (not sure which generation though), so I will make sure that I write it down.
Best wishes and thank you again :)
Sue
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Hi,
Sorry to intrude but I found that a T Salathiel was the manager of Gelli No,3 in 1896 could this be him at 24 yr old ? Info from Durham Mining Museum.
Incidentally I worked for many years with an Eddie Salathiel who was a local councillor and Ambulance person. This was until he passed approx 20 yrs ago
Regards
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Hi Briwales,
You are not intruding at all. I am not sure whether the T Salathiel is the same one or not, but it may well be. The dates that you have found would indicate that he was born in 1852 which would fit with David T's date of birth.
Also I know that there were 2 brothers who were killed in the Cymmer disaster. I must find all these names, which I know I have somewhere!!
What sort of age was Eddie when you were working with him? Perhaps we could work out an approx date of birth and try and link him in to the family - and to think that I thought that Salathiel was an uncommon name!
Many thanks
Sue
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Hi,
I believe he was born in 1927 mothers maiden name Pearce.
He had a brother George too.
Regards
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HI,There is a Red Cow Public house in High Street , Treorchy, Rhondda ( Ystradyfodwg)
Registry office is based in Pontypridd.
Cheers
Heddwch
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Thanks Heddwch.
I will Google it and see if I can find a picture of it and maybe a list of past Landlords.
Sue
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Hi there,
According to Slaters directory there was a pub `Red Cow ` in Caerphilly.
Opened around 1858/59 Run by Edward Jenkins..... Owen Edward Jenkins.
Passed on to John Gregory Thomas and after John Gregory death in 1905 to the Thomas family.
Happy searching
Heddwch
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To confused you even more, found in alist of Llantisant pubs
THOMAS,William,Red Cow,Rhiw,,1851,Census HO107/2456
Heddwch
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Ooh er!
But no David Thomas? As his widow, Sarah, remarried in1898, it may be that David was the son of William...but would Rhiw be Caerphilly?
The trouble is that there are literally 100s of deaths for David Thomas pre 1898!
When Sarah married William Snell, I think she must have been about 63 (the entry in the family Bible says that she died in 1909 aged 74), so I have been looking for deaths of David Thomas's in that age bracket....nothing obvious found yet!!!
Still looking!!
Sue
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I am hopeful that some kind person may know something about the Red Bow (Cow? Dow?) and also be able to find the maiden names of the 2 wives.
"Using the 1851 Caerphilly census and the 1841 Cardiff
census (which includes Caerphilly) he has located my great grandfather David
Thomas, living with his mother and siblings in Caerphilly next door to two
pubs, the Clive Arms and The Parrot. In a composite (1841-1910) map of the
Castle Street area of Caerphilly there is no Clive Arms, but The Red Cow and
The Parrot are shown next door to each other."
Taken from here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GLAMORGAN/1998-01/0886034450
I had relatives (William Phillips) who ran the Red Cow in 1871. Nephew of Evan Edwards (Red Cow 1858-59)
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Thank you Sikes - I will check your link now!