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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: cecily3 on Tuesday 23 August 11 13:56 BST (UK)

Title: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: cecily3 on Tuesday 23 August 11 13:56 BST (UK)
I can find all about the Symonds line but cannot find anything about Mary Catherine who married Frank Symonds,except that she was born in Havant Hants according to later census records.Frank was born at west wittering & their children in Sussex also but they were living  in Waterlooville Hants in the 1891 census. Sometime ago I visited the records office in Winchester & said I could find no record of them in the 1881 census in Sussex or Hampshire but I understand that some Sussex records at that date were taken by the Mormons & may not be in their records.I would like to complete my own line by finding out about this lady.Anyone with further details please?
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: Isobelruss on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:04 BST (UK)
Do you know when they married.I think I have Frank on 1881 census but hes single

Frank Simmonds 25 lodger single (labourer)wood cutter b West Wittering Sussex
hes lodging with George Deadman 38 carter ag lab b East Meon Hants
Mary Deadman 36 wife b Havant Hants(coincidence)
address West Marden Up Marden  Reg district Westbourne Sussex
RG11 1136/74/5

Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: Isobelruss on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:24 BST (UK)
Ive checked out Mary Deadman and it appears she was Mary Trodd before marriage born 1849 Havant so her age is well out on 81 census,she coulsd be the one you want.
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: omega 1 on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:24 BST (UK)
Hello

Isobelruss got here before me.

I have been comparing the 1881 & 1891

I note on the 1891 Mary is from Havant.On the 1881 son Tom COULD be son Thomas on the 1891,both born Marden,but changed surname.
All a coincidence.

I have looked everywhere for a marriage but had no luck

Kind Regards
omega
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: groom on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:24 BST (UK)
I wonder if they were married? There are only 2 marriages for a Frank Symonds in Sussex after 1871 - one in 1901 in Brighton and one in Steyning. Neither are to a Mary. There are none in Hampshire.

I think you may be on the right track Isobelruss as in a later census Mary Symonds gives her pob as Havant.
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: Isobelruss on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:26 BST (UK)

I think so too Groom as Omega says Tom the son was born in right place and ages do seem a bit up and down.
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: groom on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:26 BST (UK)
Using the free search for 1911, there is a Henry Trodd in the Symonds household, so I think that clinches it.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: Isobelruss on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:27 BST (UK)


oh Ive got to look at that!!! 8)
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: Isobelruss on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:30 BST (UK)
Information removed.  Please see our rules re 1911 census information
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,355484.0.html
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: groom on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:37 BST (UK)
I can't see George Deadman on the 1891, but I can't find a death either.
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: omega 1 on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:37 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Seems to be sorted
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: Isobelruss on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:37 BST (UK)
I want to know were Mary Catherine comes from.As she isnt Mary Catherine on any census Ive found ::)
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: groom on Tuesday 23 August 11 15:54 BST (UK)
Here's the Trodd family in 1861
RG9; Piece: 631; Folio: 132; Page: 13


John Trodd   46
Mary Trodd   46
Henry Trodd   19
William Trodd   17
Fany Trodd   15
Eliza Trodd   13
Mary Trodd   11
George Trodd   10
John Trodd   18
Emly Trodd   6
James Trodd   4
Thomas Trodd   2
Charles Trodd   11 MO

Henry can be found with his wife Clara and their family on the 1871, 1881and 1891 censuses living in Warblington, Hampshire. Clara was possibly Clara Pett as there is a Sidney Pett (stepson) with them.
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: cecily3 on Wednesday 24 August 11 13:35 BST (UK)
I appreciate all the info.you have given me.I shall explain a bit of this family line. Frank Symonds I believe was my g-grandfather."Groom" may well be right about that he & Mary were not married since no record seems to be recorded.I was keen to discover that lost census record because at one point,& I have records which were amassed by a professional researcher going back to the 1600`s & kindly sent to me by an American family who share my line,this group of families,Dedman,Trodd Symonds & Pledge(to a lesser degree) all originated in Sussex,in Agriculture & were involved, then many were found having relocated to Hampshire where I can pick up the census records for 1891,& they then are integrated by marriage & business once again.The 1891 census of 118 London Road,Waterlooville is this Frank & Mary Symonds,their son Frank born 1882 is my grandfather whom I remember well.He enlisted in the military at an early age & I have his whole career known.Walter(my g-uncle was married to Sarah Trodd & they set up another family enterprise as coal merchants in Portsmouth.Her father would be the Henry trodd you mention.I am aware of this history but I would like to discover that elusive census record because one time they were all in Sussex where for generations they had been farmers with good livings,then some went off to other countries,& my direct line gravitated across the sussex/hants border & took up a new self-employed living.Unfortunately the families,perhaps because they were so integrated,used similar names which makes it difficult.In my lifetime I can see the involvement of these families ,but I am hoping I can find who that"Mary" was & how she fits in.
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: groom on Wednesday 24 August 11 17:22 BST (UK)
Quote
In my lifetime I can see the involvement of these families ,but I am hoping I can find who that"Mary" was & how she fits in.

Hi, I'm a bit confused here. I thought that we'd established that Mary Symonds was actually Mary Deadman nee Trodd? Frank is with the family in 1881 as a lodger. There is no death of a George Deadman between 1881 and 1891 as far as I can see, so it could be that Mary left her husband and set up home with Frank, calling herself Mary Symonds. This could explain why there is no marriage - they couldn't marry as she was still married to George.

What does it say on your grandfather's birth certificate - it should give his mother's previous names?

Jan
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: omega 1 on Thursday 25 August 11 10:12 BST (UK)
I am confused the same as Jan, i thought Mary had been sorted.

omega
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: Isobelruss on Thursday 25 August 11 11:14 BST (UK)
And me.Also who was Mary Catherine you mentioned at the beginning?
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: cecily3 on Thursday 25 August 11 11:40 BST (UK)
Sorry that you are confused,there were so many same names & the families so intermarried.Frank Simmonds is NOT the Frank Symonds.Also Mary  nee Trodd married to George Deadman are on the 1891 census,Mary`s pob being Southwick,living at portsdown view cosham.On the 1911 census(that I paid to view) they are both still there,again Mary`s pob being Southwick which is not Havant.Unfortunately I haven`t a copy of my grandfather`s birth cert. but I have his full military record & on enlisting gives his father`s name & address which was Jubilee Road Catherington which isn`t Cosham.Initially I went down the same route thinking that Frank Simmonds was the right man however I would have been surprised since I have never known any member of the family to spell the name that way,also they were for generations farmers as were the Dedmans,not a wood cutter ever appeared as a trade,& in Hampshire were involved in their own Laundry & coal merchants enterprises.You have all been so helpful but I think I shall have to take a trip back to UK to discover more locally.  kind regards Cecily3
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: omega 1 on Thursday 25 August 11 18:08 BST (UK)
Hello cecily3

From a Database i have access to i found the following.

All Baptised at Up Marden St Michael,Children of George & Mary Deadman.

Emily Fanny,21 Nov 1875,Dad Carter.

Thomas,BORN 24 Oct 1879,Baptised 12 Jan 1880,Dad Labourer.

Walter,Baptised,23 Oct 1881
Dad ,Labourer

FRANK,Baptised 19 Nov 1883
Dad, Labourer
Extra info,FRANK , Born Lye Common.

Hope this helps
omega
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: cecily3 on Friday 26 August 11 16:07 BST (UK)
You have been so informative  Omega but George Deadman  is not my direct family with Mary Dedman.On the 1911 census which shows number of years married it says 36 years.On the same census for the couple I know are my g-grandparents,it states 42 years.Where I got the full name Mary then Catherine I shall have to go back through all I have but I have recently made contact with a relative from the female side & as you know,one thing often leads to another clue.I appreciate all the help given,now I leave you to solve someone else`s query.  kind regards  Cecily3
Title: Re: frank symonds(1855)married Mary Catherine?
Post by: monalott on Wednesday 12 October 11 16:47 BST (UK)
Back again after sending for Frank Symonds birth certificate.Unfortunately I was not able to give to GRO the correct page/volume number as it was so faded(& now I can`t find where I saw it on "Ancestry")Today they have refunded my fee as THEY cannot find any record of his birth.Today I have found the 1891 census which shows his birthplace as west marden  rather than in other records,as Hampshire.I am now going to apply for one of his siblings birth certificates since that will give me their mother`s maiden name(hopefully) which provides the same info.The name Mary & then Catherine I got from another person`s input to our tree but have not been able find if they have verification. To be continued.....