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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: SoupDragon64 on Thursday 18 August 11 02:01 BST (UK)
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Hello All,
I'm wondering/hoping! if anyone can help me find my great grandparents on the 1891 census - I'm having no luck and it's driving me nutty.
They are Edwin Newby, born 1862 (May I think) Much Woolton, Liverpool and his wife Ann Elizabeth (nee Potter) born 1863, also Much Woolton. They married in 1883, and had a son, Edwin James Miles Newby, born 1884. They also had another son Oswald Charles, born 1890.
I have Ann Elizabeth living with someone else on the 1901 census with their other children, but she did not marry this man until 1915, but she is listed as his wife.
I can't find a record of Edwin's death, so I really don't know what to do to find out what happened to him and where they were in 1891.
Any help, information or suggestions would be really appreciated. Many thanks in advance.
Soupdragon64
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hi sd64
i,ve found anne e newby and 3 boys in 1891 cen
anne elizabeth newby married age 26 born woolton lancs
edwin jall newby age 6 born garston lancs
willie e newby age 4 deaf and dumb since 3 born garston lancs
oswald c newby age 9 months born garston lancs
address 37 york st garston
but so far cant find edwin .
is this edwin in 1881 cen living with james pye and family address ,number 1 aston st, garston he,s down as stepson on cen .
also have you found a marriage for edwin and anne elizabeth only doing a quick search i haven,t found one !!
regards
trevor
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There are Newby and Pye families in Garston present day...I know the Pye family personally, and also a couple of the Newby family....Garston and Woolton are next to each other...I can walk from my house in Garston to Woolton in 20 minutes
Ann Elizabeth Potter to Edwin Newby sep qtr 1883 West Derby Liverpool 8b 709
allan
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Oswald married in 1920 he states his father Edwin is deceased also says he's a fireman (maybe on a ship could account for him missing in censuses).
As Annie doesn't marry until 1915 it's possible that it's around then that Edwin dies.
Gibel
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Has anyone checked WW1` deaths in 1914 ?
allan
ADDED....not there , so didn`t die in WW1
this gets more curious...there is another Edwin James Newby who dies sep qtr 1959 in South Liverpool aged 48 - so born 1910-1911....Garston is South Liverpool...could this be another Edwin James born to Ann - the first one having died ?
FORGET that...just checked and there is no death for Edwin James Miles Newby b sep 1884....but...that Edwin J Newby born 1911 is registered under the Garston district???....curious
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hi garstonite
don,t forget about boundary changes over the years just in case it helps you as your the person on the ground so to say .
regards trevor
ps that marriage was a good find ;)
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hi all
just found on free bmd a marriage of an edwin james newby to either a sarah ellen collins or a florence mabbett at prescott lancs in march 1910 vol 8b page 916 .
also a death for an edwin j m newby birth about 1885 death reg jan - mar 1965 age 80 reg dist liverpool south vol 10d p 687.
trevor
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On the baptisms of Elizabeth Agnes and Oswald Charles it states Edwin was a Mariner.
Mo
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well done mo , that could well be why he doesn,t show in 1891 cen then if he was abroad , although most british nationals are counted where ever the may be .
trevor
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Hello and thanks everyone,
I will try to explain, and not confuse anyone - including myself!!
t mo - I am not sure this is the right person, but it is confusing! I have Ann Elizabeth born woolton, and married in 1883 to Edwin Newby in St Michael's, Garson (I have a copy of the parish register and she is aged 19, her father is James). I know they had one son Edwin James Miles in 1884 (he died in 1965 in Garston) he was my great grandfather; he married Sarah Ellen Collins in either 1910 - I remember her very well as their daughter is my grandmother and I lived with them as a child.
The Edwin Newby you refer to in Aston Street is Edwin JM's father - he was step son to James Pye; his step sister Emma Pye was was a witness at his wedding, as he was to hers on the same day. The Edwin I'm looking for was not born in 1881, so it can't be him.
The details you give though do tie in with what I've found later on. On the 1901 census Ann Elizabeth is living in Woolton with a John Barnabas, named as his wife, but they aren't married. All the Newby children on there are:
Archibald born 1893
Oswold Charles born 1891
Elizabeth Agnes born 1889 died 1889
Mary Catherine born 1897
Benjamin born 1896
Charlotte born 1899
No mention of a Willie E, he would be 14 then.
Edwin James Miles is at an army barracks in Warrington.
Thanks Mo, that's useful. I wonder if he died at sea if he was a mariner. Garstonite can't find a death for him either, and I don't know where else to look for him.
Thanks again everyone. If you do find anything you think is useful I would be very happy to know it.
Sandra
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Thanks Mo,
posts crossed! I have tried looking for Ann Elizabeth and Edwin James Miles Newby, just in case Edwin (dad) wasn't at home, but I still can't find them on 1891 census.
Sandra
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He would only show in the census if he was on a merchant ship that was at a British port. If the merchant ship is at sea or in a foreign port they do not appear in the census.
He could have jumped ship and be anywhere then maybe presumed dead after 7 years.
Gibel
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Hi,
Crew list has him on Bergamo, registered Newport, in 1888
River Clyde reg Glasgow 1889
Ricardo reg Newport 1889
all as a fireman
Junev
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Wow, that's interesting, thanks Gibel and Junev. Where are the crew lists online? I could go to the record office in Liverpool and see what they have, I know they have some mariners records, so the info you give is very, very useful. Never thought about him being a fireman.
Still just need to find his wife and children.
Thanks so much
Sandra
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Hi,
FindMyPast (but they are only transcribed not acutal copies of the record) but there are probably more records elsewhere so Liverpool may be a good place to check him out. I also noticed on FindMyPast that son Edwin was in the army - if he is your line it would be worth getting.
I did check Scotlands People for deaths as I thought he could have been on another ship registered in Glasgow when he died but nothing came up.
Just to be clear (apologies if you know) but a fireman at this time was someone who stoked the boilers.
Junev
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hiya folks.
ime a novice with civvie records,the military side is my field.
i noticed that charlotte was down as stepdaughter on the 1901 census,which means that edwin couldnt have died before 1889,on oswalds marriage cert,she changed to charlotte barnabas,is it possible that edwin and ann,elizabeth were seperated shortly before 1901 and she moved in with john barnabas.
edwin may not have granted her a divorce and she could only marry JB after he was dead,their banns were read in july+august 1915,which could be the year edwin died
mack ;D
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I have checked for a divorce on the national archives website
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/divorce.htm
No Edwin Newby there
(Used this successfully in the past )
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Thanks everyone,
Junev - thanks I didn't know a fireman was someone who stoked the boilers, I thought it was like a landbased one - fool!!! I did know his son was in the army, and will look into this a bit more once I get a bit more time. Can I ask what is FindMyPast?
Hadn't thought about them getting divorced, knowing how difficult and stigmatised it was at that time. Mack - I didn't know Charlotte had changed her name as I hadn't looked at Oswald's wedding details (I will now), so thanks for that.
The link to the divorce site is interesting, thanks
Can't think what to do now to find them - Liverpool have census records so I might have to go and search the 1891 returns and see if I can find any family there that I can't locate on line.
Sandra
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Hi Sandra,
Find My Past - a pay to view site.
Junev
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Hi
Edwin Newby signed up for the army(militia as it was known) in 1901 and I think that is why he is not on the census. His form says that he signed up 11th March 1901 he was 17 years and 7 months. A farm labourer and that he has resided in 29 quarry st Woolton. Shortly after that in 1903 he says that he was living at 42 Ottawa St Garston.
Hope that helps
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Just to let you know it was called Otway Street (not Ottawa)...my mother was born there, number 64....so 8 doors away from my family...they would have known each other very well ....allan :)
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Hi
Thanks, but I did know that. I was spelling it as edwin did on his army letters it. His hand writing and spelling was very good, that was why i was suprised he spelt it the way he did.
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Hi
The Edwin that was born in 1863, not sure but I'm thinking he may have changed name. Maybe Edward, and switched between the two names.
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Thanks both,
That's very interesting and useful. Sorry not to reply sooner, I have not been too well so not on here.
That might be Edwin, as I have some baptism records for his children later on, and he is listed as a cowman, so he may well have been an agricultural labourer earlier on.
Didn't know he lived in Ottaway Street. I have his census listing from 1901, then nothing after, but it is his father and mother I am looking for, not him.
Which letters or papers are you referring to? I only have a copy of some army papers with basic details, such as his name and unit/batallion, so it would be interesting to know of any more and where I could access them.
Garsonite, I probably know/recognise your family name as I still live in Garston.
Thanks
Sandra
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Sandra, I'm descended from James Pye through his eldest son from his first marriage, so I've read the posts with interest. Edwin Newby (1862 - 1901) and his sibling Emma (1862 -1876) are step siblings to some of my Pyes and half siblings to others. I'll check and see if what I've gleaned about Edwin and Edwin James Miles takes you any further forward.
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Sandra, Edwin Miles Newby, married to Sarah (Ellen) was living at 16 Chapel Place in the 1911 census with sons Edgar and Harold. Ref is Much Woolton,05, Page 78.
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Hello,
Thank you for this, it was posted the day before I was due to move house and now I am on holiday for a short while. I have some information about the Pye family but it is in storage until I am home and settled in to my new place, I will get it out then and post here for you.
It is good to know about Edwin and Sarah living in Much Woolton, as that is where she is from. I knew of their son Harold (in fact I remember him from when I was a child) and their other children, but I did not know of an Edgar, so that is really helpful.
Thanks again,
Sandra
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Just came across this, im new on here, not sure if this helps but my great grandfather was oswald charles newby,from garston but born 1920 passed away 1972