RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: katherinem on Wednesday 17 August 11 07:36 BST (UK)
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Hi,
One of my brick walls is Lavinia Ellen McDonald born 5 June 1860 in Manchester to Peter and Margaret McDonald. Peter was a tailor and an Irish Traveller.
I cannot find the family in 1861 ??? There is a brother Daniel born in 1863 in Bradford, Lavinia's mother Margaret dies in Bradford in 1866. Peter, Lavinia and Daniel are on the 1871 census living in Bradford. Then Lavinia's father Peter died in 1875 (still in Bradford), the informant on the death cert was Jane McDonald, daughter!
Daniel (my OH ancestor) can be traced very easily, he settles in Hull, but alas I can find nothing on Lavinia. I have trawled marriages, deaths, censuses to no avail. She was 15 when her father died and left her an orphan, and am wondering if another traveller family would have taken her in maybe had a name change. I realise I am grasping at straws!
If someone could enlighten me as what may have happened to Lavinia within a travelling community, it would be really appreciated.
Kath
P.S. Apologies for rambling!
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Hi, I note that you have an interest in the McDonald family, namely Peter, would be interested to know when Peter married Margaret Carroll ? and where ? My interest is in the McDonald's in Hull, who married into my mothers family-Peach, would like to exchange information on this family with you.
look forward to hearing from you, kind regards , Maurice Hamson, Nelson, New Zealand,
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Hi Kath, I have an interest in this McDonald family, can we please exchange information. I cannot find details of Peter's marriage to Margaret Carroll, can you please confirm this for me, thanks in anticipation, regards, mapacaja, Nelson, New Zealand,
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What information leads to Peter being a traveller???
There is a tree on A******y which gives Margaret's maiden name as Farrell or Carroll
they have Margaret's p.o.b. as Scotland -could they have married there??
and daughter Jane b 1849 Manchester
I do not know how well sourced this tree is
Suz
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Hi Kath, I have an interest in this McDonald family, can we please exchange information. I cannot find details of Peter's marriage to Margaret Carroll, can you please confirm this for me, thanks in anticipation, regards, mapacaja, Nelson, New Zealand,
Hi Maurice, we have previously communicated by email in April 2015, I still do have the marriage details for Peter and Margaret.
Hi Suz, thank you for your interest, Margaret's maiden name was definitely Carroll and her possible place of birth is Edinburgh. All possible places of marriage, Scotland, Ireland (what is on line so far) have been checked.
It is Lavinia that I am trying to track down, as I am really interested as to what happened to her. When the 1939 register came online, I was hopeful in possibly finding her on that, using her date of birth, but alas was unsuccessful.
Kath
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Hi Suz, thank you for your interest, Margaret's maiden name was definitely Carroll and her possible place of birth is Edinburgh. All possible places of marriage, Scotland, Ireland (what is on line so far) have been checked.
It is Lavinia that I am trying to track down, as I am really interested as to what happened to her. When the 1939 register came online, I was hopeful in possibly finding her on that, using her date of birth, but alas was unsuccessful.
Kath
Hi -I wondered where you found the information that Peter was a traveller -as I was hoping to find some of his family -siblings etc with traveller families to see who Lavinia may have been with - kind of backwards research to come forwards!
Suz
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Hi Kath, we have communicated in the past regarding Lavinia Ellen McDonald, as the McDonald family married into my Peach family in Hull, Yorkshire, some years ago. I like you have searched every possible site to no avail to trace members of this McDonald family.I have Peter and Margaret children as Jane born Manchester 1850 and deceased 24th August, 1852, Lavinia Ellen born 5th June, 1860, in Manchester and Daniel born Bradford 23 June 1863, and deceased 12th April 1931, in Hull,
Janes Mothers maiden name is shown as Andrews, Lavinias mother is shown as Carroll, and Daniels mothers name as Carlton, I have Peter McDonald on 1841,1851 and 1861 and 1871 Census, Jane is shown on the 1851 Census, Lavinia is shown on the 1871 Census, and Daniel on all Census from 1871 through to 1911, I can't trace the marriage of Peter McDonald to Margaret Carroll, can you help me with this please, I look forward to hearing from you, regards, Maurice, Nelson, New Zealand
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Hello Maurice,
Welcome to RootsChat :) Kath was online earlier so hopefully will reply to your message very soon.
Regards
Sarah
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Thankyou Sarah
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[/quote]
Hi -I wondered where you found the information that Peter was a traveller -as I was hoping to find some of his family -siblings etc with traveller families to see who Lavinia may have been with - kind of backwards research to come forwards!
Suz
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Hi Suz,
Sorry about the late reply, not sure why I haven’t seen your message before.
The information is from the family, this is from several lines descended from Peter, no other proof apart from the family know that their parents had many friends in the travelling community.
Kath
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Hello Maurice,
Welcome to RootsChat :) Kath was online earlier so hopefully will reply to your message very soon.
Regards
Sarah
Hi Sarah,
I am sure Maurice appreciates the welcome, he is the same user as mapacaja above, so more of a welcome back, which I am sure is just as appreciated.
Maurice, I am afraid there is no change from our other conversations. I am now concentrating on DNA connections to find more out.
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Hi Kath, I may have found Lavinia on the 1881 Census RG11, piece4116/91, shown as Ellen McDonald,aged 21 years, Cotton Weaver, birthplace Manchester, as a lodger, have a look, the details look very likely, please let me know what you think, kind regards, Maurice H..
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Thanks for letting me know Katherine, if you have lost access of your other profile Maurice I can merge your two profiles together if you wish, just let me know ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Hi Sarah, I tried to merge both my profiles, but couldn't, would you please move mapacaja over to maurice hamson, thanks in anticipation, regards, Maurice H..
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Hi Kath, I may have found Lavinia on the 1881 Census RG11, piece4116/91, shown as Ellen McDonald,aged 21 years, Cotton Weaver, birthplace Manchester, as a lodger, have a look, the details look very likely, please let me know what you think, kind regards, Maurice H..
Anything and everything is possible Maurice. Not sure this is Lavinia but then again there is always the possibility.
Kind regards,
Kath
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Hello,
Sorry - no information re Lavinia but I am wondering where the information comes from re Margaret’s possible origins in Edinburgh.
Just wondering if this might help.
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There is this birth
1856 December quarter Manchester 8d pg 191
John Francis McDonnell mother’s name Carroll
Baptism: (from Latin)
15th November 1856 St Joseph’s, Ancoats
John Francis McDonald; father Peter McDonald; mother Margaret formerly Carroll.
Then there is
1861 3016/8/10
Yorkshire Street, Oldham
Peter McDonald 39yrs widower Cordwainer b Ireland
John F McDonald 4 yrs b Manchester
They are lodging with a Bartley family.
The occupation is different but there is a published tree which has Peter and child Jane McDonald lodging in Oldham in 1851.
Also lodging there is Margaret McKeald b Edinburgh, Scotland - hence my query about Margaret McDonald’s birthplace.
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There are a couple of deaths in Manchester for Margaret McDonald
1860
Margaret 42 yrs Ancoats area
1858
Margaret 28 yrs Market Street area
Then a 22 yr old in 1856
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Hi Heywood,
The 1851 census you have found is the reason that I have Margaret as possibly born in Edinburgh as I am pretty sure that it is them. I have all the details of John Francis as well as the death cert of Margaret.
It is really Lavinia that I am trying to trace.
Thank you so much for your interest and help.
Kath
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The original post said that you couldn’t find the family in 1861 nor did I see a mention of John Francis. I thought I was helping fill in the gaps besides search for Lavinia.
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Apologies Heywood, this post was made over 8 years ago in 2011 and I have discovered a lot since then.
I will look to see how to close the post. Appreciate your time