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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: cravend on Tuesday 16 August 11 18:56 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know if the subject records are available on line?
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Can you be a bit more specific? There are several St Andrews churches in Northumberland.
Andrea
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St Andrews Newcastle upon Tyne (RC)
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There are some baptism records from St Andrew's Anglican church available online via the Durham Bishops transcripts.
But I'm not aware that any records from St Andrew's Roman Catholic church (which I assume is what you are referring to?) are available online.
Jennifer
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JenB, Thank you
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cravend,
Are you looking for a specific baptism ?
You never know, somebody might look it up for you ( eg me ! )
Michael
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Yes. I'm looking for the baptism of John Mcgovern who was born 1849/50 in Newcastle upon Tyne. I'm not really sure he was a Roman Catholic but seeing as I've failed to find any other baptismal record for him I thought I might as well try the RC records. Any help would be really appreciated
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cravend,
I searched for John's birth registration in Newcastle c.1850 +-2 yrs,( on FreeBMD) to reduce the search window when trawling through the baptisms of St Andrew's RC church.
But I could not see a candidate for him. Do you have details of his birth registration ?
If you are targeting a RC church because you haven't found his baptism in churches of other denominations, have you excluded St Mary's RC church
( now the RC Cathedral) in Newcastle, from your search, for a specific reason ?
What churches have you already covered in your search for his baptism ?
Michael
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Michael Dixon
I've tried to find him using the Findmypast site, Familysearch, Free BMD and the Durham Diocese Marriage bonds. Being fairly new to this game I'm a bit limited on the knoweledge of where to look. I've found his Marriage where he is called Goveran and I've found him in various census' but I really want his birth. I think his father was also called John. I think that he was born in the 2nd Quarter of either 1849 or 1850. My big problem really is that I've lost track of his living relatives. Thanks for your interest and help.
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FreeBMD has a John McGorven, Sep Qtr 1850, Newcastle v25, p.358.
Down as John McGorvin on the Newcastle Registrars site.
Familysearch has a baptism of a John McGoverine, son of John, Newcastle 16 June 1850. Its user submitted or from a collection, doesn't give a church. Usually not to be trusted, but might be a useful starting point for a date.
Alan.
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lan,
Thank you for that. I did find the John Mcgoverine info and, as you say, not wholly convincing. I may send off for the other John's bc.
Pete
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Michael Dixon,
I'm pretty sure now that the family were Roman Catholic. My sis tells me that it was a source of friction at the time of his marriage that the bride wasn't. I'm glad we've moved on!
Pete
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Info from film of St Andew's RC church, Newcastle ( Source: Tyne & Wear Archives)
Baptismal Register
Born 2 Aug 1848, Bapt 10 Sept 1848.
Cicily McGovern, dtr of John and Isabella McGovern ( nee McGuine)
Godparents William McGuine and Agnes Gillespie
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Born 13 June 1850, bapt 16 June 1850.
John McGovern, son of John McGovern ( no mother recorded! )
Godparents Patrick ( surname looked like..) Battle and Mary Mc?????
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Born 1 Dec 1850, bapt 15 Dec 1850
Mary McGovern, dtr of Owen and Ann McGovern (nee Crowe)
Godparents Hugh Dolan and Mary Taylor
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Michael
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Michael,
Many thanks for the information and your time. It looks quite promising as one of John Mcgoverns grandchildren was named Isabella, perhaps after her grandmother
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cravend,
If your John McGovern ( and his wife) had followed the Irish Naming Pattern, they would have named their 1st son after John's father, their 2nd son after wife's father, their 1st daughter after wife's mother, their 2nd dtr after his mother, and so on.
Michael
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I was looking at that very same Microfilm yesterday in the Archives ;D
I've been told by a couple of people that the Catholic records have been transcribed in the past , but nobody seems to know what happened to them.
There's a typed index for St Andrews in the archive but it only goes up to 1840 :(
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Hi
According to the birth certificate we have, Birth dated 15th June 1850 John McGorvin (McGovern) son of John McGorvin deceased and Catherine McGorvin nee McDaniel.. Address of Sandgate Newcastle which is by Ninnian Entry (1851 Census)
We have worked on the assumption of the various spellings of the name being due to, two very strong accents, a strong Irish and North Eastern and possibly not being able to spell the name correctly. We do have a copy of a baptism for him at the local RC Church, as yet cannot find the thing
The closest we have found on the 1851 census is the following
1851 Census Ninnians Entry. Newcastle Upon Tyne
Catherine McGoram Lodger Widow 35 Alms Mayo
Mary Dau 10 Mayo
John Son 9mnths Mayo
Though on the census he has been entered as being born in Co. Mayo, we assume it was put down as such or just a mistake, This is the best we have come up with so far
I can confirm, on his marriage certificate he is down as John Goveran X Ann Cox dated 13th November 1872 of Edward Street. Darlington. On the 1881 census he is definitely down as John McGovern at 13 Edward Street.
Have never found any details for Catherine whether she married again or when she passed away.
My wife Dorothy is a 2nd great grand-daughter to John McGovern
Trust this helps a little.
Richard
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Richard,
Thanks for that. I think we have more or less the same information. I have a baptism record form the FamilySearch site. The birth is in the name of John Mcgoverine, born 16 Jun 1850 Newcastle upon Tyne, father is shown as John Mcgovernine?? It's never easy is it?. I'm great great grandson to John.
Pete
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Hello Richard, I've just found yr old entry relating to John McGovern b.1850 in Newcastle who later married Annie Cox. I too, come from this McGovern line - my grandfather, William, being one of John's son's.
I haven't been successful in finding John's father or more information about his mother Catherine McDaniel, but I haven't given up just yet.
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Hatbox2009.
Hi good to hear from you. Well, I have to say that the situation on info is not better now that what it was a few years back. I did start to look at the Parish registers for Ireland a few months back, the plus to that is that they are copies of the original entries. They are difficult to read, and it is a matter of browsing to certain extent. I checked this morning seems I have lost the link. I will endeavour to find the site again.
Richard
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Thanks for replying Richard. Can't seem to find many people tracing this line of the family - where are they all ?
I'm currently following an online Genealogy course with Strathclyde Uni and I hope to find some information on getting around brick walls that I may be able to use.
Do keep in touch.
Jo :)
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Hi Jo
Have found the website I mentioned earlier. I know why I gave up the search at the time. If the girl did come from Mayo, which parish, there is an awful lot of them. The site is a little fiddly to start with
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0739
If you do search let me know how you get on. I am starting in the North of the County
Richard
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Hi Richard, here we are again a year later and still haven't tracked down the elusive Catherine McGovern. However, I have found out a couple of things - I obtained a copy of the marriage certificate for her daughter, Mary to Peter Devitt in Darlington in 1860 and was most surprised to find that Mary's surname on the certificate is Bartley and her father was John Bartley. I did come across somewhere that Mary and John McGovern b.1850 (in Newcastle) were half brother and sister, but cannot remember where, so I guess this would fit in.
Another relative sent me a copy of a photo of Catherine McGovern dated 1881 which I think you forwarded to him. When I was at the WDYTYA event in Birmingham last year I took a copy of the photo and had it analysed. Result was it couldn't have been dated 1881 from the clothes she was wearing, as they didn't come into fashion until almost a decade later. Which has brought me to thinking, is that definitely the same Catherine - she would have been approx 75-80 years old if the photo is dated as 1891 - does she look that old in the photo ? What do you think ?
jo_alexandrou@yahoo.com
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Hi. Have sent you an email with updates. Richard
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Thanks Richard. Look forward to receiving it.
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Hi. Should have by now. , just in case I have the wrong email etc.
Darlington Births Mother maiden name. Type as written
Catherine David B. June ¼ 1862 10A/18 Bartley
John Devit B. June ¼ 1864 10A/11 MaGowan
James Devit B. Mar ¼ 1866 10a/7 MaGororon
Michael B. June ¼ 1868 McGuane Birth at Wigan
Joseph Devitt B. June ¼ 1871 10a?26 Bartley
William Devitt B. June ¼ 1878 McGovern
Peter Devitt B. June ¼ 1880 McGovern
Hi to you both
Firstly Catherine McGovern photo. We were informed by one of Dorothy’s relatives that this was Catherine, but we all know over time how things are altered. Stories change. They only suggestion I have this maybe Mary Devitt. Next time Dorothy speaks to her cousin, I will ask find what the reason was.
Following on from Peter’s email way over a year ago,. Recently I started having a look, first at the 1861/1871 census at Clay Row then Edward St, Darlington by 1881 they are living in Middlesbrough, Haven’t look at any later census, yet.
Looking at the Darlington births, the first one threw me with the name Bartley. Following on from traditional naming traditions Catherine (Kate) seemed the right girl but the name Bartley, so I sort of dismissed it. not thinking of parents two marriages?
So back to the R.C parish registers I will now look for Bartley. It’s a long job as there is no search facility, so page by page, Some of it is in Latin, which takes awhile to get use to.
Stay in touch, One day we may have answers.