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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: wfhc on Tuesday 16 August 11 17:41 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me, please, the identity of Anglican church C-12 in the North Tyneside BMD marriage indexes ? There are 3 marriages of interest to me, the first of which is in 1872 between Eliza Whitehouse and Thomas Tweddle at church C-12, Volume 1, entry 21. The GRO ref. is Tynemouth 10b 295 and the page range for this RD and quarter is 271-379, thus indicating that the parish name comes in the early part of the alphabet. It is not Earsdon (C-5), Longbenton (C-7), Cullercoates (C-18) or Howden Panns (C-20). Because the 1872 entry is an early one in the church registers, the church was probably consecrated in the late 1860s or early 1870s. The second marriage of interest to me is between Enoch/Enock Whitehouse and Mary Ann Logan, in 1879 at Church C-12, Volume 1 entry 94. Evidently this church is in a small town or large village, where 10 marriages per year in the 1870s would be the going rate.
Hopefully, there is an expert somwehere out there...
Keith :)
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Further to my earlier posting, the chief suspect is Killingworth St John, the marriages for which began in 1870. If anyone knows of a marriage at this church. could they please look up the names in the North Tyneside BMD and thereby advise the code number, please ?
Keith
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Hi Keith
It might be worth your while contacting the Register Office and asking if they can clarify the code:
registrars @ northtyneside.gov.uk (remove spaces round @)
Kind regards and God bless you,
Lynne
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Lynne,
I assumed that the North Tyneside Registrars did not want to publish their code. However, your post reminded me that it is always worthwhile trying "route number one", so I did and to my surprise, they sent me the whole code, without requiring any obligation of confidentiality. Hats off to you and here is the code for Anglican churches. You will see that C-12 is indeed Killingworth St John. All other references are to Registrar's Books or non-Anglican churches.
C-1 Christ Church N Shields
C-2 Good Shepherd Burradon
C-3 Holy Saviours Tynemouth
C-4 S. Aidan N Shields
C-5 S. Alban Earsdon
C-6 S. Augustine N Shields
C-7 S. Bartholomew Longbenton
C-8 S. George Cullercoats
C-9 S. Hilda Marden
C-10 Percy S. John Percy Main
C-11 S. John Wallsend
C-12 S. John Killingworth
C-13 S. Luke Wallsend
C-14 S. Mark Shiremoor
C-15 S. Mary Whitley Bay
C-16 S. Mary Willington Quay
C-17 S. Mary Magdalene Longbenton
C-18 S. Paul Whitley Bay
C-19 S. Paul Dudley
C-20 S. Paul Willington Quay
C-21 S. Peter Balkwell, N/Sh
C-22 S. Peter Monkseaton
C-23 S. John Backworth
C-24 S. Peter Wallsend
C-25 Good Shepherd Wallsend
C-26 Holy Family Newcastle
C-27 S. Columba Seaton Burn
Additionally, my own investigations have shown
HT-CLOSED Tynemouth Holy Trinity
OLDSPT-CL Tynemouth St Peter
Keith
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That's brilliant, Keith, not just for this query but for a look up I'm doing in relation to another thread.
You've saved me quite a bit of time - thank you :D
Christine
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Keith,
That is really great - I hope you don't mind, but I have copied it onto the Northumberland Resources Board as well (and given you credit for it!) http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=550486.0
Thank you for finding this for us.
Jennifer
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Hi All,
Sorry to reopen such an old thread but I was wondering if anyone had worked out any of the other codes for North Tyneside?
I'm looking for W43.
Thanks,
Michael
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Hi Michael,
I suppose, from reading from my own post giving Anglican church codes, that W43 must refer to a non-Anglican church. Maybe it's a Wesleyan Methodist church. Could you give me the parties involved and the GRO reference, please ?
Keith
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Hi Keith,
The two people are Mary L Howe (born 1871) and John E Hall (born 1870). They were married in the first quarter of 1891.
I'm new to this type of research and I'm not sure what a GRO reference is but this is the page information on free BMD, I'm hoping it's what you need:
Tynemouth 10b 410
I've been to the local library today and they have a few more codes but not this one.
Any help you could give would be great.
Michael
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I'm new to this type of research and I'm not sure what a GRO reference is but this is the page information on free BMD, I'm hoping it's what you need:
Tynemouth 10b 410
GRO 'index reference numbers' go to http://www.rootschat.com/links/07od/ which explains the system.
Stan
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Remember that until 1898 if the marriage was not Church of England, then a registrar would have had to be present.
This is what Devon CC says
"Because a registrar had to be present at their chapels during a marriage, the pre-1898 marriages of Methodists, Baptists, Unitarians, etc., will appear in one of the local Register Office marriage registers."
Looking at March qtr 1891 Tynemouth
page 399 in the GRO indexes, two marriages, equates to entries 199 and 200 in W41 in the North Tyneside indexes.
Being an even number, marriages on page 400 really should be in the same place (or places if a registrar's book)
they come up on Tyneside as W43 entries 1 and 2
It's a long run for W43 in March 1891, up to page 418 in the GRO indexes
From page 419 it is W42, starting with entries 147 and 148
So I don't think the code W43 identifies a particular church. Looks like it's a registrar's register. Presumably as was W42
John
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Hi Michael,
You have quoted correctly the GRO index reference, by giving the year, quarter, Registration District, Volume (10b) and page number (410). The marriage that you seek probably took place at Wallsend Our Lady & St Columba Roman Catholic church, since this is on page 409. From what John says helpfully in his reply post, it seems likely that W43 means the same thing for page 409 as 410. The broader point here is that it must have taken place at a non-Conformist church or in a Register Office and in either case it would be recorded in the Registrar's Books, since the marriage took place before the 1898 Act came into force on 1st April 1899. That means you usually can't get access to the details except by buying a certificate. That said, a few non-Conformist churches, especially RC ones, did keep their own books as well, although not necessarily giving all the details that you would find in a certificate. Here, you might be lucky, because, according to the GENUKI website, this church has a marriage register from 1886 onwards available at the Tyne & Wear Archives. Continuing the broader point, you need to be aware of the practice of GRO clerks in arranging Anglican marriages before non-Conformist (NC) & Register Office (RO) ones. Here, Tynemouth Reg. District occupies page 271 to 435 of the GRO book and page 410 is only 9.5 percent from the end of the range, which, in the late 1800s, as here, indicates NC or RO. You can find more about how to "mine" marriages from church registers from the papers on the subject on my website at www.users.waitrose.com/~whitehousefhc. The papers relate to other areas, but the same principles apply to all areas. It would be helpful to me and others if you would go to the T & W archives (if you live in the area) and report back here on the range of marriages at this church in that quarter of 1891 (Jan to March), giving the dates and parties of the first and last in the quarter, because the number of marriages indicated by John's reply as belonging to the W43 code would be most unusual for one RC church, esp. as the 1st quarter is usually quiet - maybe Easter was early that year. Good luck ! Keith
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The problem is that there will be no page range for a non C of E place of worship in 1891. If it is a registrar's book then the next marriage in W43 could be another marriage that same day at Our Lady & St Columba, it could be a marriage in another church altogether, or a marriage at the Register Office.
John
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Hi All,
Thanks very much for the help. I've got to be honest and say that it's going to take a few reads to get my head around the explanations but I'm sure I'll get there.
The church that you mention is one I have to walk past to get to my local library from the car park, I wonder if they hold any old records.
I will try and get into Tyne and Wear archives and check the book for you, the problem is not with getting there, it's getting in. It's only open a few days a week, not at weekends and only during working hours so I'll have to try and take a few hours off work.
I will get in there though and post what I find.
Thanks a lot for the help,
Michael