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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: millih on Monday 15 August 11 08:51 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
May I ask for help with the following siblings in the 1901 Census:-
- Samuel SANFORD b. 1849 London
- Sophia SANFORD b. 1853 London
A Little background info:-
Areas where they appeared: St Giles, St Pancras, Bethnal Green, Pimlico London.
This family seemed to have been avoiding the census taking as they only started to appear in 1871 with mother Amy SANFORD (or SANDFORD), born about 1821/1823. There is absolutely nothing in the 1851 and 1861 census records, as far as I can find. Their father was Benjamin SANFORD (or SANDFORD), date of birth approx 1825 (guessed??).
There were other children:
- Emma b. 1845
- Ann (or Annie) b. 1850
- Benjamin b. 1856 - at time of his marriage, his surname changed to SANDIFORD.
Your help would be appreciated.
millih
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Hi
This looks promising
1901 Census England London St Pancras Tottenham Court
RG13/137/50/45
53 Warren Street
BURCHELL Emma Head Wid 54 Baker Confectioner's Assistant London Endells Street
SANFORD Samuel Boarder Unmarr 52 Printer's Labourer London Smarts Buildings
SANFORD Sophia Boarder Unmarr 48 Charwoman London Not Known
Cheers
Karenlee
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On October 16th 1864 Edgar BURCHELL married Emma SANFORD daughter of Benjamin SANFORD Dead.
So they are all brother and sister
Karenlee
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Dear Karenlee,
Oh my, you ARE a star! Thank you soooo much for the VERY quick reply! Sooooo much appreciated.
My next mission is to find their father's, Benjamin, birth & death records....and those "missing in action" census records!!!!
Thank you again ;D
millih
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Don't know about his birth and death... but I can see his marriage to Amy... do you have that one??
There is an entry on Freebmd for the death of a Benjamin SANFORD in 1852 Newington that might be worth a look into..
Do you have the other children's marriage details??
Cheers
Karenlee
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Hi Karenlee,
Yes I have Benjamin and Amy's marriage record, got it off the IGI Familysearch site. No ages or witnesses mentioned.
I only have the Freebmd marriage record for Benjamin SANDIFORD, so no exact date there.
I have nothing for Ann or Annie b. 1850.
I will look at your suggestion for Benjamin's death on Freebmd.
Thank you for your efforts!!!!
millih
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1861 census: RG09/101/41/75
10 Pitt St, St Pancras [one of several households at this address]
Amy SAMFORD Head Wid 40 Pickle manufacturer Shoreditch
Emma do Daur Unm 15 do St Giles
Sophia do Daur 8 Bloomsbury
Ann do Daur 10 St Giles
Samuel do Son 13 St Giles
Henry/Benny (?) do Son 6 St Pancras [edited]
Elizabeth BUCKENHAM Visitor Unm 39 Servant Clerkenwell
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Marriage Register
St Pancras Parish Chapel
Camden
March 23rd 1845
Benjamin SANFORD of full age Bachelor Hatter of Parker's Place Father = Benjamin SANFORD Dead
Amy Susannah MAY of full age Spinster of Parker's Place Father = Samuel MAY Plasterer
Bride and Groom both made their marks
Witnesses were Samuel MAY and Ann Maria STEVENS who both signed
Cheers
Karenlee
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Death, Dec qtr 1856
Benjamin SANDFORD
Pancras 1b 24
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Well they did appear to have baptised one child....
Baptism Register
St Pancras
Camden
Benjamin James son of Benjamin and Amy Susannah SANFORD of Sussex Street. Born 23rd June 1855 Baptised 15th July 1855. Father's Occupation Porter
Cheers
Karenlee
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Hi avm228,
Thank you for the look-up of the 1861 census record. It sure looks like the correct family....I never even thought of trying SAMFORD as a possible surname.
I wonder what happened to Benjamin, born 1856 in this census record??.....playing at the neighbours :D ??
Thank you for finding this record, I've been trying for DAYS!!
Regards
millih
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Could Henry be Benny by any chance??
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Not sure, but there is this family who have been listed as LAMPARD that might be them...
1851 Census England Middlesex St Giles in the Field St Giles South
HO107/1508/378/53
13 Smart's Building
LAMPARD
Benjamin Head Marr 25 Labourer London St Giles
Amy Wife Marr 25 London Spitalfields
Emma Dau Unmarr 5 Scholar London St Giles
Samuel Son Unmarr 3 London St Giles
Amy Dau Unmarr 8mths London St Giles
Karenlee
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Could Henry be Benny by any chance??
Yes I wondered that too. It's really hard to read. Have amended 1861 post accordingly.
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Karenlee,
Thank you for ALL the look-ups, I appreciate!
I must admit, I hope I have the correct family here. It all started with a Lesley Herbert SANDIFORD that came to South Africa in 1947 and married my deceased great uncle's wife, Elizabeth Susanna (born van der MERWE). Her children were all born van der WESTHUIZEN but after her marriage to Lesley SANDIFORD, they changed their surname to his.
Lesley H SANDIFORD (1914)--Herbert SANDIFORD (1881)--Benjamin SANDIFORD (1856)--Benjamin SANFORD (?)
There was another SANFORD/SANDFORD/SANDIFORD family in the same area. I did find a death record for Herbert SANDIFORD on the London Gazette website in 1946 with Lesley H SANDIFORD mentioned there. By using some maths, I settled on the SANFORD/SANDFORD/SANDIFORD family we are researching.
You guys are the best. Thank you again for all the help.
millih
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Karenlee,
I DO believe you found them in 1851!!! Looks very promising!!!
THANK YOU!
millih
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I'm a bit concerned that this may not be the family which eventually leads to Leslie Herbert SANDIFORD. Leslie H's father Herbert SANDIFORD (who married Dorothy WATKIN in 1913) seems to have been born in Pimlico/Belgravia, son of a Benjamin (baker) who himself was born in Pimlico abt 1854-1855, per 1891/1901.
We seem to be in the wrong part of town at the moment!
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Baptism Register
Clapham Christ Church
Lambeth
Herbert son of Benjamin and Mary Ann SANDIFORD of 8 Thorne Road Born 10th July 1881 Baptised 21Oct 1881. Father's Occupation Baker
Benjamin Henry son of Benjamin and Mary Ann SANDIFORD of 8 Thorne Road Born 10th Feb 1880 Baptised 21st Oct 1881. Father's Occupation Baker
This looks more promising
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Baptism Register
Streatham St Leonard
Lambeth
Ellen Louise daughter of Benjamin and Mary Ann SANDIFOR of Leigham Lane. Born 10th July 1883. Baptised 2nd Dec 1883. Father's Occupation Baker
Karenlee
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Hi
Consistently Sandiford not Sandford
Births Jun 1914 SANDIFORD Leslie H Watkin Edmonton 3a 1299
Marriages Dec 1941 Sandiford Leslie H Nickson Birkenhead 8a 1634
Marriages Sep 1913
Sandiford Herbert Watkin Edmonton 3a 1318
Watkin Dorothy Sandiford Edmonton 3a 1318
12 Jul 1913 St Michael, Wood Green
Herbert Sandiford 32 Bachelor Engineer 313 High Road Benjamin Sandiford Confectioner
Dorothy Watkin 23 Spinster 64 Sylvan Avenue William Watkin Engineer
Both signed
Witnesses Clarissa and Frank Ernest Watkin
1901 census RG13 477 folio 45
85 Sunny Hill Road Streatham
Benjamin Sandiford 47 Head Married Foreman Baker Pimlico London
Mary Ann Sandiford 52 Wife Married Westminster London
Benjamin H Sandiford 21 Son Cricketeer Pimlico London
Herbert Sandiford 19 Son Plumbers mate Pimlico London
Helen Louise Sandiford 17 Daughter Dressmaker Streatham
plus 2 boarders
1881 census RG11 105 folio 43
15 Johnsons Place St George Hanover Square Middlesex
Benjamin Sandiford 26 Head Married Baker Westminster Middlesex
Mary A. Sandiford 32 Wife Married Westminster Middlesex
Benjamin H. Sandiford 1 Son Westminster Middlesex
Marriages Dec 1879
SANDIFORD Benjamin St. Geo. H. Sq 1a 849
Coleman Mary Ann St Geo. H. Sq 1a 849
or
Wilkins Mary Ann St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 849
What information does his marriage certificate give about his father?
1871 census RG10 110 folio
Grosvenor Hotel Pimlico Middlesex
Benjamin Sandiford 17 Bakers assistant Pimlico
The 1861 census has enumeration districts streets and parts of streets missing. The Westminster area is particularly badly hit especially around the Pimlico area.
Westminster parish registers are held by Westminster Archives. They are not online (some Bishop Transcripts - copies made of the registers sent to the bishop yearly are online but they were not always done, not always survived and not without errors).
St Pancras is not in Westminster.
Births Sep 1854 Sandiford Benjamin Westminster 1a 227
The Sandford family in 1871
1871 census RG10 208 folio
12 Grepe Street St Pancras Middlesex
Amy S Sandford 50 Head Widow Sauce and pickle maker London Middlesex
Annie Sandford 21 Daughter Sauce and pickle maker London Middlesex
Samuel Sandford 23 Son Sauce and pickle maker London Middlesex
Sophia Sandford 18 Daughter Sauce and pickle maker London Middlesex
Benjamin Sandford 15 Son Sauce and pickle maker London Middlesex
Birth registration
Births Sep 1855
Samford Benjamin James St Pancras 1b 33
Regards
Valda
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Marriage Register
Streatham St Leonard
Lambeth
20th July 1902
Benjamin Henry SANDIFORD 22 Bachelor Cricketer of Sunny Hill Road Streatham Father = Benjamin SANDIFORD Baker
Ada Maud LIDDIARD 25 Spinster of Factory Square Streatham Father = George Thomas LIDDIARD Deceased Policeman
Both Bride and Groom signed
Witnesses were B. SANDIFORD and E. SANDIFORD
Karenlee
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This might be them in 1861... but without confirmation of Benjamin's father's name from a marriage certificate, then it's just speculation...
1861 Census England Middlesex Westminster St John the Evangelist
RG9/51/13/41
25 Lillington Street
SANDIFORD
Benjamin Head Marr 34 Boot Maker Middlesex Westminster
Harriet Wife Marr 32 Surrey Richmond
Harriet Dau Unmarr 11 Scholar Middlesex Westminster
Elizabeth Dau Unmarr 8 Scholar Middlesex Westminster
Benjamin Son Unmarr 6 Scholar Middlesex Westminster
Caroline Dau Unmarr 4 Scholar Middlesex Westminster
John Son Unmarr 3 Middlesex Westminster
Susannah Dau Unmarr 5mths Middlesex Westminster
John Brother Unmarr 38 East Indian Pensioner Middlesex Westminster
John ROGERS Serv Un marr 16 Carrier Middlesex Westminster
Karenlee
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Benjamin Henry SANDIFORD 22 Bachelor Cricketer
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Kent/Players/257/257136/257136.html
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Hi
If the 1861 census entry is correct it leads to this possible marriage.
20th May 1849 St Mary Lambeth Surrey
Benjamin Sandiford Bachelor Full Age shoemaker 6 James Street Lambeth Walk Alexander Sandiford (deceased) shoemaker
Harriet Pollard Spinster Full Age 6 James Street Lambeth Walk Thomas Pollard Coachsmith
Both signed
Witnesses John Fulletier? and ? L Gawler (who was a regular witnees - parish clerk)
1841 census HO107 737/6 folio 24
9 Great Smith Street St John the Evangelist Westminster Middlesex
with the Wheelers
Benjm Sandiford 15 apprentice shoe m born in county
Regards
Valda
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Dear Valda,
Wow, what a mouth full!!! Thank you so much for all the wonderful info. I must admit, I'm TOTALLY confused. I will have to go and study the info you have given and if I may, later on, ask a question or 2 where I miss something.
Thank you for all the "homework" ;D
millih
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avm228,
Thank you for that.....it ties up wonderfully with the census record of 1901!!
;)
millih
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Valda & Karenlee,
I am a little worried about the marriage between Harriet & Benjamin. There is someone on the net that is researching this family and from what I can see, it doesn't lead to a Lesley Herbert SANDIFORD....if this person's info is correct. I will however see if I can find the website again, just to make sure.
millih
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millh
The only way you will ever be totally sure about this family is to buy some certificates .... starting with either the marriage or birth certificate of Leslie H SANDIFORD. Work backwards using that information.
Cheers
Karenlee
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Hi
If you prove this line through necessary certificates - it continues back
1841 census HO107 737/6 folio 24
9 Great Smith Street St John the Evangelist Westminster Middlesex
with the Wheeler family
Benj Sandiford ap shoe m born in county
possible Burial
23rd February 1838 St John the Evangelist Westminster Middlesex
Alexander Sandiford aged 51 Jefferies Gardens
There is an Alexander Sandiford baptising children 1871-1820 at St Margaret Westminster both legitimately and illegitimately (legitimate wife Elizabeth) but he was a sawyer (I have access to only intermittant Westminster parish entries). It could be that Benjamin or the parish clerk entered the wrong occupation for Alexander on Benjamin's marriage certificate and after deceased added shoemaker - Benjamin's occupation.
There are two other Sandifords whose marriages name an Alexander Sandiford as their father but all with the occupation of eirth sawyer or carpenter.
20th December 1858 St John the Evangelist, Lambeth Surrey (just across Westminster bridge from Westminster)
James Sandiford Full Age Bachelor Shoemaker New Cut Alexander Sandiford Sawyer
Mary Hazel Full Age Spinster New Cut John Hazel Plasterer
Mary made her mark
Witnesses mark of George Martin and mark of Mary Lay
also William Spencer Sandiford, fisherman, who married in Poplar in 1855 had an Alexander Sandiford carpenter as his father. Older children if they survived would probably have married before the start of civil registration.
1861 census RG9 49 folio 73
2 Miles Buildings St John the Evangelist Middlesex
James Sandiford 29 Head Married Shoemaker Westminster Middlesex
Mary Sandiford 24 Wife Married Cork Ireland
Catherine Sandiford 1 Daughter St John the Evangelist Westminster Middlesex
1841 census HO107 738/20 folio 18
St Margaret Westminster workhouse
William Sandiford 13 Pauper
James Sandiford 10 Pauper
both born in county
Regards
Valda
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Hi everyone, I am really excited to see all this conversation about SANDIFORD. One of my main lines is Thomas POLLARD who marr. Harriet SPENCER, and I have a Harriet POLLARD (daughter of above Thomas) marrying Benjamin SANDIFORD in about 1849. I also have a Thomas POLLARD (brother of above Harriet) who marr. a GREENLAW and the witnesses were Benjamin SANDIFORD and Harriet SANDIFORD.
I have not been able to go back any further than Thomas and Harriet POLLARD (nee SPENCER). I can't find her birth nor parents to save myself.
I sure would appreciate any help unravelling this group, they are driving me nuts!!
Regards
Maree