RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: SonofSussex on Sunday 14 August 11 22:10 BST (UK)
-
I am trying to develop information about Alexander Thomas Donald Barron and his wife Vera Margaret (née Cleland) who lived in Rarotonga for a portion of their lives. While I have the basic information about both, I have not been able to find anything concerning their life in the Cook Islands.
Here's what I know:
Alexander was born on 14 Jan 1888 in Mosgiel. He married Vera on 15 July 1926 (site unknown; his second marriage) and died on 21 May 1932 in Rarotonga. At the time of his death, his occupation was given as 'manager'.
Vera was born on 22 Jan 1891 in Dunedin. After Alexander's death, she apparently lived on in Rarotonga because this was noted in her father's obituary when he died in 1945. By 1949, however, Vera was in Wellington, living at the Hotel St. George (electoral rolls). She died on 2 Apr 1950.
There must be something, somewhere that would shed light on their time in Rarotonga. For example, was Alexander living there before his marriage to Vera? And what kept Vera in Rarotonga after her husband's death? Perhaps they were in some business together. I just don’t know.
-
This may help http://www.rootschat.com/links/0emt/
EDIT: there are plenty more mentions of him and children on PapersPast.
-
TwiggyTree, thanks for the link. The Alexander Barron who is mentioned is clearly the one I'm interested in. However, I have looked at a few of the other references in PapersPast and it seems that many of them refer to another Alexander Barron - his father perhaps? I'll have to go through these carefully. As far as I know, my Alexander and his wife Vera did not have any children. There may have been children by his first marriage but I haven't found any so far.
I'm wondering if there's an organization in Rarotonga that might be of some help, perhaps a public library, a historical society, a museum, etc. Any ideas?
-
Is does appear that Alexander (yours) may have been the name-sake of the elder, also detailed on PapersPast.
From BDMHR
1888/4293 Barron Alexander Thomas Donald Helen Alexander
along with
1889/662 Barron John Anderson Helen Alexander
1886/11868 Barron Robert Henry Helen Alexander
-
Marriage from BDMHR
1909/6097 Susan Finnimore Macmillan Alexander Thomas Donald Barron
EDIT: No children noted as born in NZ up until 15/8/1911
-
What about:
Cook Islands Consulate-General
Cook Islands House 127 Symonds Street, Newton 1010
09-366 1100
Perhaps there is a list of foreigners abroad, or births abroad?
-
Alexander's first wife, Susan, died on 29 Sep 1924 so there was plenty of time for them to have children. However, I have not found any. Alexander died intestate and probate makes no mention of any children by either marriage.
My main focus, however, is Alexander and Vera so I shall try contacting the Cook Islands Consulate-General. Since I'm in the US I'll also look on-line for someone to contact in Rarotonga. It might prove faster.
Added in MODIFY: Seems that the Cook Islands have an "Honourary Consulate" in the US (in Hawaii). Doubt that they can help me but they might be able to point me in the right direction.
-
Hello...
If your research is a long term thing you can always go to your local LDS FHC and start ordering microfilms
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0emy/
Regards
Beg
-
[The Cook Islands were annexed to New Zealand from 1901, until becoming self-governing in 1965. The National Library of New Zealand might be the repository of some records - you'd need to check their catalogue. ]
You may find some help at this link though ?
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cokwgw/library.htm
~ Lu
-
Alexander's first wife, Susan, died on 29 Sep 1924 so there was plenty of time for them to have children. However, I have not found any.
Hello...
I think they had at least two children.
Just browsing through the Ancestry electoral roll indexes and an Alexander Thomas Donald BARRON and a Susan Finnimore BARRON both appear in the Dunedin West (NZ) electorate in 1911 and then the Melbourne Ports (Australia) electorate in 1914. They must have then returned to NZ as he appears in the Egmont (NZ) electorate in 1919. There is also a Susan BARRON in the same electorate so, without looking at the actual roll, I'm guessing it's her.
The NZ WW1 Reserves Index (compiled between August and October 1917) lists an Alexander T D BARRON of Eltham, Second Reserves, occupation Salesman, classification C.
I'm guessing this is your Alexander as the initials are the same and I'm fairly sure Eltham is in the above mentioned Egmont electorate. Classification C means two children.
Will check the NZ BDM Birth fiches to see if there's are any BARRON births recorded in Eltham in the 1914-1917 period. Won't be till later in the week, unless someone else can do it sooner. Might be a lead to 2011. Might not :-)
Regards
Beg
-
he appears in the Egmont (NZ) electorate in 1919. There is also a Susan BARRON in the same electorate so, without looking at the actual roll, I'm guessing it's her.
Regards
Beg
Living in Eltham, occupation Branch Manager. No middle name for Susan recorded.
1911 E/R has them living at 257 George Street and Alexander's occupation is a Draper.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
KHP
-
Well done, Beg! What a break through.
Cant find any children listed as born in VIC, AU as BARRON between 1911 and 1919.
-
Perhaps Vera's probate in the Wellington office of Archives New Zealand will be able to confirm whether she and Alexander had children?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0emz/
-
Cant find any children listed as born in VIC, AU as BARRON between 1911 and 1919.
Hello TwiggyTree,
Just wondering...how are you able to search for births in Victoria post-1910
Regards
Beg
-
Beg,
I just go here: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0en0/
But now that you mention it, that page has nothing about the search date ranges, it just lets you type in whatever you like.
I'll have to try and find out more.
Ah you are right. It's only up until 1910.
That is on this page: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0aq1/
Sorry about that folks, looks like I was misled to believe that if it didn't stop you looking that it must have been okay (contrary to our NZ records where if you get anything wrong in your search date it throws a wobbly and lets you know in no uncertain terms.)
-
I just go here: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0en0/
Hello TwiggyTree...
Thanks....I know Tasmania and SA have Births CD's that go up to 1920 and 1928 respectively. I thought you might have access to something similar for Victoria.
Living in Eltham, occupation Branch Manager. No middle name for Susan recorded.
Hello KHP...
Thanks for that. I'm assuming they're at the same address in Eltham in 1919. Or does it just say something like "Eltham, Married" for Susan.
Regards
Beg
-
Hi Beg,
Just says, Barron, Susan, Eltham, married. No street mentioned for both of them, just Eltham
Cheers
KHP
-
Out of the five Barron's for that year they are the only two listed for Eltham.
Cheers
KHP
-
Hi KHP...
Thanks for that.
So the assumption is that the Alexander Thomas Donald BARRON in Eltham on the 1919 Egmont roll is the Alexander T D BARRON of Eltham mentioned in the WW1 Second Reserves.
So are there records for the WW1 Reservists held at Trentham. Or am I confusing it with something else.
(Isn't there a rootschatter who lives down the road from the Trentham archives)
Regards
Beg
-
Hello SonofSussex...
It's possible that trying to find out about Alexander BARRON in Eltham is an unnecessary diversion. It won't directly tell you about his life in Rarotonga.
It could be easier just doing as TwiggyTree originally suggested and enquire about purchasing a death certificate from the Cook Islands High Commission in Wellington. It might mention something more than "Manager".
Details half-way down this page.... http://www.cook-islands.gov.ck/faq.php
If the High Commission can't help you then, because you're in the US, getting the Rarotonga Death Registers index from LDS would be your next best bet. I'm guessing "FHL INTL Film 1084938 Item 1" (http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=33053&disp=Death+registers+1917-1975+and+index+19++) which is the microfilm containing the relevant Deaths Index. Which will then list the relevant Death Register microfilm, most likely "FHL INTL Film 1084934 Item 3".
At least then you'd have some definite information about Alexander in Rarotonga.
Regards
Beg
-
Lu, thank you very much for the Cook Islands GenWeb information. It is greatly appreciated. Some of the links there are broken but most still work so I'll see what I can find.
Beg, your information is intriguing. I had seen the WWI Reserves Index information for Alexander (yes, I'm pretty sure it's him too) but I had completely missed the C before his name. And even if I'd seen it, I might not have thought much about it. If you can find the names of the two children, that would be wonderful as it could lead to additional information about Alexander's, and Vera's, time in the Cook Islands. I'm also thinking that Alexander and his first wife may have had more children since she did not die until 1924, aged 37.
-
Hi again...
No luck with the NZ BDM Births fiche. There were no BARRON births registered in Eltham between 1914 and 1924 that I could see.
Was only able to spend ten minutes doing the search but next library visit will spend a bit more time checking out spelling variants plus Taranaki province plus Dunedin 1911-ish.
Regards
Beg
-
For some reason, I did not receive notification about many of the responses here so I apologize for not answering many of your questions. Vera's will, which I have, makes no mention of ANY children named Barron. I am positive that she had no children by Alexander so this means that if Alexander's two children by his first marriage were still alive when she died she ignored them. As I previously mentioned, Alexander died intestate, but what I did not mention is that it took almost 10 years before Vera was named his executrix. I wonder if that indicates a dispute between Vera and Alexander's children by his first marriage. :-\
Regarding these children, I still believe that if their names could be determined it might move my research forward. Susan was only 22 when she married Alexander in Nov 1909. She was 37 when she died in Sep 1924 so she could also have had more than two children. For future searches, I've seen at least one on-line reference in which Alexander's last name is given as Batton rather than Barron. An easy error but perhaps the children are listed as Battons somewhere! ::)
I shall try to obtain a death certificate for Alexander. Perhaps I should obtain one for Susan as well. Might at least give the ages of any issue.
-
Hello,
It would pay to order printouts rather than certificates as there is usually more info on them also they are less costly
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/PaymentsAndProducts/
cheers Janette
-
Perhaps I should obtain one for Susan as well. Might at least give the ages of any issue.
Hi again...
You should save your pennies if that's the only reason you're going to spend them.
The two children were born between August 1911 (the latest we can see on the BDM NZ website) and August 1917 (the publication of the Reservists list). So in 1924 when their mother died they were aged somewhere between seven and thirteen. I don't think that knowing the exact age will help you **at the moment**
Will have another go at finding the children via the BDM fiches (most likely over the weekend). The annoying thing is the time spent in Australia. If the children were born there it could prove a nuisance.
Totally agree that tracing them is a good idea. If they have a younger sibling he/she could still be alive.
Regards
Beg
-
Beg, I lucked out and found one of the two children in question. He was born in Australia.
Thinking that I might find something about Alexander's and Susan's two children, I searched on Susan's name and bingo, up popped information about a son, Hugh MacMillan Barron, born in Footscray, Victoria, Australia in 1915. ;D
http://genforum.genealogy.com/australia/melbourne/messages/149.html
With his name in hand, I quickly learned from the NZ BDM site that Hugh died on 15 Feb 1962. His second name is spelled McMillan on the BDM site. Haven't yet tried to develop any further information - electoral rolls, etc.
I have sent off several e-mails to various Cook Islands-related sites. Hope to get some responses before the weekend.
-
Hi again...
Well found.
His cremation is noted on the Wellington Cemetery website.
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/search/search.php
Wonder if there's a death notice in the local Wellington paper. You could start a thread asking for a lookup.
No mention of him on Archives or the pre-1956 Marriage index.
Rgards
Beg
-
Hi SonofSussex
On the offchance that another child of Alexander and Susan bore the christian name "McMillan", there is the following death :
2007 - BLAIR - Jean McMillan - d.o.b. 13 September 1917*
[* See following post.]
Above lady married early 1940's ... her maiden surname was BARRON.
Burial
... at East Taieri Cemetery, Dunedin (husband, same plot)
BLAIR - Jean McMillan - aged 89 years
Died: 18 August 2007
Birthplace: Waitahuna, Central Otago
~ Lu
-
The two children were born between August 1911 (the latest we can see on the BDM NZ website) and August 1917 (the publication of the Reservists list).
Just noting Beg's statement above and questioning whether a "soon-to-be-born" child might have been included in the details provided by a Reservist ?
* The birthdate showing on NZ BDM (online) for Jean McMillan BLAIR, is given as "13 September 1917" (so not yet born at the date of publication of the Reservists list.)
It may also be that the informant to the death of above lady, has made an error with "birth year" ?
Still worth checking microfiche birth index, to determine correct year of birth.
[And of course there's the possibility, this "Jean McMillan" is not related. ] :D
~ Lu
-
Impressive work Lucy
Regardless of whether or not you're right :-)
And the Reservists list was compiled between August and October of 1917. Apologies for being inaccurate in my earlier post.
Regards
Beg
-
2007 - BLAIR - Jean McMillan - d.o.b. 13 September 1917*
Death notice in the Otago Daily Times
20 and 21 August 2007
http://www.amemorytree.co.nz/index.php
Regards
Beg
-
Beg and Lu, I can't keep up with you two!! ;D
I think Jean is most likely the second child. Found mention of her baptism in Waitahuna - in 1918.
http://www.archives.presbyterian.org.nz/baptism/waitahunabaptisms.htm
It also appears that she is buried with her husband, William Robert Blair, who predeceased her. AND.....his probate is available at Dunedin. Seems like something I should get! Can't find anything for Jean.
I'm off to bed (it's after 9 PM here and I have to get up VERY early tomorrow) but I must say thank you both very much for what you've done. I'm hoping some of the information developed will lead me to Alexander, Vera and Rarotonga!
By the way, am I correct that I have to order the obituary information about Jean?
-
By the way, am I correct that I have to order the obituary information about Jean?
Hi ... would seem so. But $$$ are involved. :D
As you now have name of newspaper involved and date(s) of publication (from Beg's find), then maybe try the "Ask a Librarian" service at the National Library of NZ. The Alexander Turnbull Library (part of National Library) is the repository of our newspapers and they're usually happy to assist overseas-based researchers with the odd lookup (service is free of charge.) ;)
~ Lu
-
... whoops ... forgot to add the link. :D
http://www.natlib.govt.nz/
[See link, right-hand side, for "Librarian" service. ]
-
Just by the way ... when looking at NZ Electoral rolls (index only) available on the Ancestry site, didn't get any hits for "Hugh McMillan BARRON". (Although maybe I didn't try hard enough ?) :D
Was he (also) possibly living away from NZ ?
~ Lu
-
Hi again...
Am a bit concerned as to how a Waitahuna, Otago baptism in 1918 (bottom of the South Island) works in with Eltham, Taranaki (which is halfway up the North Island) mentioned in the Reservists list in 1917 and the electoral roll in 1919.
Possibly Jean is the child of another family member.
Or just as likely Alexander and Susan travelled down south for the baptism.
it's after 9 PM here
Just curious...where is here :-)
Regards
Beg
-
it's after 9 PM here
Just curious...where is here :-)
... see reply # 6 ;)
Hi Beg
Agree there is the possibility that Jean belongs to another family. ;)
Can only think that (mother) Susan and her babes, remained in Otago up until ?? 1918. It was wartime after all.
Bit difficult to confirm Susan's whereabouts in the timeframe leading up to her (apparent) appearance in Eltham, 1919.
~ Lu
-
it's after 9 PM here
Just curious...where is here :-)
... see reply # 6 ;)
Ouch!
See reply #19.....
I'd forget my head etc
:-)
--------------------------------------
There is only one BARRON birth in Dunedin from August 1911 (100 years ago) to Jan 1914 (mentioned on Australian electoral roll)
She is listed on the 1938 Dunedin North electoral roll. She is unmarried. Other people living at the address make me think her parents are Alexander BARRON and Isabella, formerly NEAME.
Can't mention her birth (less than 100 years ago) but am allowed to mention her death (deceased born more than 80 years ago)
Registration number 1994/58482
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=%2FqueryEntry.m%3Ftype%3Ddeaths
Cremated at Waikumete Crematorium in Auckland.
http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/cnlser/cm/cemeterysearch/default.aspx
Her husband
Reg number 1983/33420
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=%2FqueryEntry.m%3Ftype%3Ddeaths
Cremated at Karori Crematorium in Wellington
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/search/search.php
I think she is more than likely a relative.
Regards
Beg
-
Not much time today for family research but I did want to mention the following:
Received a very nice response today from the Department of Justice in the Cook Islands. It appears that they handle BDM requests so I should be able to get a death certificate for Alexander Barron.
Hmmm.....I do see the possible time line and geographical problems with Jean McMillan Barron. On the other hand, I keep coming back to her middle name and the way it is spelled. It seems Hugh may have used this spelling too, at least that's the way it was spelled by Wellington cemeteries. I was also thinking about whether an unborn child would, or should, be counted when registering for military service. Is it possible that an individual with two children would be less likely to be sent off to the front in Europe? That might be an incentive to put down two children instead of just one.
Regarding the non-appearance of Hugh in the NZ electoral rolls. I couldn't find anything either, nor could I find him in the Australian rolls.
I've been thinking that Hugh may have spent a good portion of his life in the Cook Islands. He was about 9 when his mother Susan died in 1924 and about 11 when his father Alexander married Vera in 1926. IF Hugh was the first born child, then the second child would have been even younger.
Alexander died in Rarotonga in 1932 when the two children were still teenagers. Assuming that they too were in Rarotonga they may well have stayed on with their step-mother. I know that Vera was still in Rarotonga in 1945 so maybe the 'kids' were too (Hugh would have been 30 then). Vera did return to the Wellington area (she is listed in the 1949 electoral rolls) but there is no mention whatsoever in her will or probate records of any children by Alexander and Susan.
Since there is nothing in the electoral rolls for Hugh, nor is there any pre-1956 marriage information for him, perhaps he did spend most of his life in Rarotonga (or at least not in NZ). Of course, the children could have been brought up by relatives of Alexander but then why is there no record of Hugh in the electoral rolls?
FYI, I am on the eastern seaboard of the US, about half way between New York and Philadelphia (and some 14,000+ km from New Zealand!)
-
With his name in hand, I quickly learned from the NZ BDM site that Hugh died on 15 Feb 1962. His second name is spelled McMillan on the BDM site. Haven't yet tried to develop any further information - electoral rolls, etc.
Have now checked the Wellington newspapers of the day, and unfortunately there was no death/funeral notice published for Hugh McMillan BARRON.
~ Lu
-
After a long wait, I finally received a copy of Alexander's death certificate from the Cook Islands. Overall it was disappointing and contained little information. Not at all like the NZ certificates.
However, it did mention that in May 1932, when he died, Alexander left behind THREE children - two boys and one girl - whom I assume were all from his first marriage. One of these was obviously Hugh McMillan Barron. During my correspondence with the Cook Islands BDM people I asked if they had any record of a marriage for Hugh. Nothing, so his whereabouts after 1932 remain unknown, except for his death in Wellington in 1962.
I've been researching my mother's family for the last month or so but I'll now return to this issue of Alexander and his second wife, Vera Margaret, and their time in Rarotonga. As previously noted, Alexander was a manager of something or other when he died and since his widow stayed on in Rarotonga until at least 1945 I'm thinking that perhaps the two of them operated some kind of hotel or pub that allowed her to keep working.
Also wondering how on earth to pursue the question of the three children, given the 100 year rule about births. Could really use some advice here.
-
The Jean McMillan Blair who died 18 Aug 2007 and her maiden name was Barron was the daughter of George Alexander Barron and Agnes Mckerrow McMillan and was born at Waitahuna.
Have followed this thread with interest as George was my grandmothers brother
-
Holm, thanks for posting this. Since you have followed this thread you know that there were doubts about whether Jean was in fact a daughter of my Alexander Barron.
I have again been in touch with the Department of Justice in the Cook Islands and they have no records pertaining to any Barron marriages there (I thought one or more of the three children might have lived and married there). As a result, I've pretty much hit a brick wall concerning the other two Barron children. Since they were born after 1911, birth information is pretty well impossible to come by. It was pure dumb luck that I found the birth information in Australia about Hugh.
-
Are you still trying to do this research. I am off to Rarotonga in 2 weeks. I am friends with Alexander's Grandson and will be going to clean up the grave and put some new flowers on it.